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11 Feb 12, 01:59AM
(This post was last modified: 11 Feb 12, 03:31AM by OpenSource.)
Im real sorry to say this, and im real sorry to do this.
A lot of Brazilian IPs are from now banned on my server, DES|Biohazard Norway.
187.0.0.0/8 (187.0.0.0 - 187.255.255.255)
189.0.0.0/8 (189.0.0.0 - 189.255.255.255)
201.0.0.0/8 (201.0.0.0 - 201.255.255.255)
If you are in this range feel free to PM me on this forum or on DES forum if you think this does not apply to you.
I will give a de-ban pass for all innocent, but the range ban will stay there.
I do not wanna do this, but i do not see any options.
The reason for this is that there is a lot of hackers and some tag abusers in this range and its hard to blacklist them as they have dynamic IPs and the range is real big.
Im real sorry to do this and im real sorry for any Brazilian players that are in this range and are innocent, but i feel i have not options at this point.
So, are you in this range and wanna play on my server just PM me on Dedicated Elite Soldiers Forum, or this forum or email me at desopensource[AT]gmail[dot]com
If you are innocent that is ;)
Again, im real sorry to do this.
And before anyone scream anything about racism - you are wrong.
I love everyone, from any race - special girls. ;)
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i also banned 189.0.0.0/8 and i give pass to innocent players
and i might ban other ranges too.
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(11 Feb 12, 04:14AM)Jg99 Wrote: i also banned 189.0.0.0/8 and i give pass to innocent players
and i might ban other ranges too. LOL trust admin in "innocent players." Genius.
OS I salute your tactic.
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deban pass != admin pass, Shad
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Bye bye some Argentines, Bolivians, Chileans, Colombians, Costa Ricans, Cubans, Dominican Republicans, Ecuadorians, Salvadorians, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Mexicans, Panamanians, Paraguayans, Peruvians, Uruguayans, Venezuelans too. :(
Quick router reset for all the cheats who get IPs in 177, 186 and 200. :)
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11 Feb 12, 10:02AM
(This post was last modified: 11 Feb 12, 10:03AM by Jg99.)
xDDDDDDDD
Im glad im an american :P
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I considered this also, but quite frankly there were too many inocents that would get caught up in it but i totally understand why OS has taken this step. I would like to ask all those clever programers out there to step up and do something for your community, as well as IP each machine that connects has hardware ID's like Mac address. Please can someone write a program to monitor these and allow us to ban a Mac address so that when they try to log on they auto kicked.
I am aware that a Mac address can be spoofed/changed but it is another weapon we can use against those who seek to destroy our community. It may also help with the "it was my brother" syndrome because if the mac address matches then it was your machine.
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Yes, that's the problem. like i already know people that are innocent in 189.x range. :/
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11 Feb 12, 03:26PM
(This post was last modified: 11 Feb 12, 03:48PM by OpenSource.)
(11 Feb 12, 09:03AM)jamz Wrote: Bye bye some Argentines, Bolivians, Chileans, Colombians, Costa Ricans, Cubans, Dominican Republicans, Ecuadorians, Salvadorians, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Mexicans, Panamanians, Paraguayans, Peruvians, Uruguayans, Venezuelans too. :(
Quick router reset for all the cheats who get IPs in 177, 186 and 200. :)
I will give a de-ban pass to all innocent that contact me.
I have added to my serverinfo_en.txt file all contact information.
This is not a DES policy, this is my decision and does not in anyway affect ladder servers or any other DES servers.
As stated by some others the problems when it comes to banning people with large IP ranges needs to be addressed.
We cant keep on banning same person +20 times for cheating cos his IP is in a 189.0.0.0/8 range.
This issue need to be looked at by the devs/coders out there.
At this point, all we server hosters can do is ban IPs. And as we know this seems to be non affecting to some cheaters.
Again, im real sorry for this range ban but i do not see any other options at this time.
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11 Feb 12, 05:56PM
(This post was last modified: 11 Feb 12, 05:57PM by shad-99.)
Yeha..-Damn sad they cause trouble were ever they go?.. -i also ban brazil on my servers :(.. -Really sad for the innocent people :(
-But also find it nessesary to mark that this is not acceptable and need some action taken against it.. Not nessesary for ever.. but i think for few weeks or month or so?
you can contact us if you innocent here:
http://shad-99.org (forum) and our IRC. irc.gamesurge.net #40+
-And like the above post of OpenSource... i will give a de-ban password for people that are innocent.
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11 Feb 12, 09:09PM
(This post was last modified: 11 Feb 12, 09:10PM by Felix-The-Ghost.)
(11 Feb 12, 10:02AM)Jg99 Wrote: Im glad im [a North American] :P
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Lol hey guys! im an Ecuadorian and IM INNOCENT! i never cheat, i hate cheaters, i just watt ahve fun!, i never be banned from serv, ucan ask to my leader [SODA]___ME___ :D
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if the Auth system ever gets used then this might become easier to do.
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11 Feb 12, 10:04PM
(This post was last modified: 11 Feb 12, 10:17PM by Freddo.)
I support your decision OS.
I do feel the Brazilian ban is coming back.
Quote:The rise of waves of cheaters/hackers, impostors, master role abusers aso., which have flooded the community and its servers, forced Tear you Down! to change its policy how to handle them. After a deeper investigation it was clear that the most of them had their origin in Brazil. Cause the ISPs in this country distributes dynamic IP addresses the permanent ban of a single IP was ineffective. Therefore the server providing members decided to block whole IP ranges and ISPs, still with the hope that an upcoming version of AssaultCube would make this step needless. This action was misunderstood by some brazilian players and clans as an act of racism, which resulted in the beginning of a ban war against their members on non-clan-servers. After a long going discussion on the official forum the most brazilian players have accepted the necessity of this step and the ban war was over. Afterwards the first brazilian public server was opened.
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I think it's a good thing to do, otherwise like Freddo said the world would end
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11 Feb 12, 10:37PM
(This post was last modified: 12 Feb 12, 03:46AM by OpenSource.)
(11 Feb 12, 09:16PM)[SODA]SantiagoZ Wrote: Lol hey guys! im an Ecuadorian and IM INNOCENT! i never cheat, i hate cheaters, i just watt ahve fun!, i never be banned from serv, ucan ask to my leader [SODA]___ME___ :D
De-ban password sent via PM.
(11 Feb 12, 10:04PM)Freddo Wrote: I support your decision OS.
I do feel the Brazilian ban is coming back.
Thanks for the support Freddo.
It means a lot coming from you.
I just hope DEVs and coders out there will address this issue and try making life as a server hoster better.
The issue at hand is that, atm, server owner has no way of keeping a cheater in a big IP range away from the server if they dont ban a big IP range.
This will always ban some innocent and no one wants that.
So, what can be done about cheaters in a range like 189.0.0.0/8 ?
Banning one IP at the time or do we need to get sick of it and ban, like i have, the range?
DEVs come on and answer us about this - and do something!!
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i'd like to ask devs?
Is there a possibilty to add some kind of a unice ID-key for each player and to each copy of this game?.. -wouldn't that be so that if a person missbehave... it would be connected to that copy of game and he will be banned? (like UId)?
im sorry for my english.. but i can't express my self to well.. :(
That combined with ip and Uid togethter could maybe make some differents?
-I don't know.. but maybe worth consider perhaps?
Like every one has to register on your website to be able to play the game on masterserver?.. and the will get unice id from ms-server?.. -I know crazy ideas?
-Blame me xD
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This is wrong. Have you really thought about the geographic consequences of these bans?
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12 Feb 12, 06:07PM
(This post was last modified: 12 Feb 12, 06:23PM by jamz.)
shad, don't forget that this game is open source. Anything broadcast by the client can be altered in the source, then a new binary recompiled. If you're talking about confining the game to closed-source binaries only, it's been discussed in the past, but probably won't happen.
Authentication is an idea (in fact it's already part-implemented), and it would certainly help the established players caught in a range ban, but it still wouldn't protect the hundreds of new and casual players.
In case I hadn't made it clear with my sarcastic reply, I, too, think this is a bad idea, but OS is entitled to allow who he wishes. OpenSource, have you thought about breaking the cheat/abuser IP ranges into smaller blocks, eg. /20? When a new IP is used, add another /20 to your blacklist. Trust me, there are large portions of those 187, 189 and 201 blocks that never see abuse.
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(12 Feb 12, 06:07PM)jamz Wrote: shad, don't forget that this game is open source anything broadcast by the client can be altered in the source, then a new binary recompiled. If you're talking about confining the game to closed-source binaries only, it's been discussed in the past, but probably won't happen.
Authentication is an idea (in fact it's already part-implemented), and it would certainly help the established players caught in a range ban, but it still wouldn't protect the hundreds of new and casual players.
In case I hadn't made it clear with my sarcastic reply, I, too, think this is a bad idea, but OS is entitled to allow who he wishes. OpenSource, have you thought about breaking the cheat/abuser IP ranges into smaller blocks, eg. /20? When a new IP is used, add another /20 to your blacklist. Trust me, there are large portions of those 187, 189 and 201 blocks that never see abuse.
Yes i know it is a open game.. and shall stay that way :).. -What i try mean is.. if there is a way to add unice id to game?.. -would that make it less opensource?.. -don't get it?
and yes opensource narrow the ip-range.. -that is good! -but how in my mother underpants . are we dealing with this brazilians and mark how they can behave or not then?.. --beats my little head? -Don't we need to take a stand here?.. -mark that this isn't acceptable?... (this is not for ever.. just for a few weeks or so)
and yes there is some people that will be innocent.. -Which im sad for:(.. -really.. not lying... :(.. -But .. but but.. is all i can say.. .:( can't find words here :)
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12 Feb 12, 08:17PM
(This post was last modified: 12 Feb 12, 08:17PM by CharlyMurphie.)
Im a fan of this I just have one question though. If an innocent player comes asking for a deban pass what keeps anyone one from passing them out like candy. How do ya know if the cheater isn't asking for it. If this doesnt work then the whole plan is shot to hell, although the field has been narrowed down. We could also just keep letting them in and thumbing their noses at us and ruin a freaking awesome game like ive see happen to others. I dont think this ruins the game, hurt it, sure. Dont become a statistic.
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Re "advanced" banning:
Simply put, there is no way. This is a big problem in pretty much everywhere the internet is involved, and there is no reliable solution. IP banning is still the best way, but with IPv6, that's mostly done for as well.
Mac address is not an option - it's unique, but the server never receives the client's Mac address, only that of the last switch/router/... in the chain, i.e. it's useless.
Unique IDs wouldn't be a reliable option even if the game was closed-source. Everything that happens on the client, and everything sent over the client's network interface, can be modified.
Actually, the most reliable solution is to ban suspicious clients based on their behavior, i.e. server-side anti-cheat. In that system, the client's IP address - or the player's identity - doesn't matter.
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(12 Feb 12, 09:43PM)tempest Wrote: Re "advanced" banning:
Simply put, there is no way. This is a big problem in pretty much everywhere the internet is involved, and there is no reliable solution. IP banning is still the best way, but with IPv6, that's mostly done for as well.
Mac address is not an option - it's unique, but the server never receives the client's Mac address, only that of the last switch/router/... in the chain, i.e. it's useless.
Unique IDs wouldn't be a reliable option even if the game was closed-source. Everything that happens on the client, and everything sent over the client's network interface, can be modified.
Actually, the most reliable solution is to ban suspicious clients based on their behavior, i.e. server-side anti-cheat. In that system, the client's IP address - or the player's identity - doesn't matter.
Ok ok ok.. i see! :(.. -i will shut it :P -I was just currious about the whole thing! )
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(12 Feb 12, 06:07PM)jamz Wrote: Trust me, there are large portions of those 187, 189 and 201 blocks that never see abuse.
It would be nice to see a list of those bad ranges that we all could just drop into the blacklist file. Call me lazy, but without a list of known bad ranges the /8 range seems like the only choice. For each of us to sort out the last 3% of the internet is a lot of work.
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(11 Feb 12, 10:02AM)Jg99 Wrote: xDDDDDDDD
Im glad im an american :P
*Starts Singing* I AM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN!
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13 Feb 12, 08:32PM
(This post was last modified: 13 Feb 12, 09:15PM by OpenSource.)
There are limits to logs that i have access to.
Trying to shorten down from /8 range to a /20 will be a lot of work, even with "only" ~10 serverlogs to search through.
The ranges are only based on my own serverlogs and blacklist and added only to my server.
Of course this leaves my server a lot more empty then before, but i ratter let the once that do wanna play on it be sure and safe that any cheaters will be removed.
I could of course do as some other and set it to a specific continent - Europa.
But at this point i will try and see how it goes with adding this ranges.
A other thing that comes to mind is the default ban time.
A cheater connects at start of round, he get vote-banned right away by players.
Next round, who shows up?
Yep, same cheater and this time most of the people vote-banning at first has left and the people in server dont vote him out.
So, im suggesting a increase in default vote-ban time.
This to prevent same cheater from connecting and messing up the next round that starts.
I do not know how that "w vote to kick/ban without clear reasons" thing works, but cheat gotta fall under "clear reason".
Anyway, im adding it in upper case (admin role is required to vote) but i make default ban time 60 minutes.
-kB60
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(11 Feb 12, 10:02AM)Jg99 Wrote: xDDDDDDDD
Im glad im an american :P
You do realize that all of those nationalities jamz posted are also American???
Anyways I saw many servers followed OS idea since I'm blacklisted in half of the master server list. So yeah!
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maybe an idea for a central deban pass?
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