Is this forum's moderation failing?

[Drakas]

How come that, on this forum, when someone says something about TyD, it always get closed down or deleted, and yet clowns get to say "fuck you" to me and my clan without any consequences?

Also, a protip: if you don't like certain people opening up new threads (like the discussion of archiving the previous forum), then don't close the old ones maybe? It would be much more convenient for you to keep all the "bad stuff" (not really offensive, just the stuff you don't want to discuss) in one single place so you don't see a dozen of threads with the same title all over the forum. An "ignore thread" function would be very good for that.

Thank you for listening and not closing this thread down :)



Edit: thread ID = 2^10, how awesome is that? :)

[pakit]

i'm convicted that "non clanplayers" only must be admin here ;)

ps:(omg clown is back ? like apollo? lol i see it's people that assume their words ;) )

[jiba]

As your comment is very close to home I will reply. I am not personally aware your issue exists. I don’t always get in there first but if you report anything I will treat it in as unbiased way possible and when in doubt consult others in making a decision.

[Shorty]

ps:(omg clown is back ? like apollo? lol i see it's people that assume their words ;) )

Drakas isn't referring to {TyD}Clown, but clowns of the community in general.

[Drakas]

As your comment is very close to home I will reply. I am not personally aware your issue exists. I don’t always get in there first but if you report anything I will treat it in as unbiased way possible and when in doubt consult others in making a decision.

Well, I can't exactly link you to the deleted threads..

But let's see...

Lawl Drakas.

[jiba]

I too finf that offensive. Posts deleted and warnings given!

[Bukz]

Click the report button on any offending posts, and hope that a fair moderator/admin will see it. Pretty simple...

If you have a problem with some of the mods, I don't see how this thread is going to help. Why not talk to one of the devs/RandumKiwi directly?

Edit:

Also, there isn't a moderator online in the forums at all times, we have lives too, sometimes we're AFK/not here/sleeping/at school/work/etc.

Just because something is not taken care of right away, doesn't mean that it won't be taken care of when a mod sees it.

[MusicMan10]

y cant i have anything drakas

:((

[Drakas]

Click the report button on any offending posts, and hope that a fair moderator/admin will see it. Pretty simple...

If you have a problem with some of the mods, I don't see how this thread is going to help. Why not talk to one of the devs/RandumKiwi directly?

Edit:

Also, there isn't a moderator online in the forums at all times, we have lives too, sometimes we're AFK/not here/sleeping/at school/work/etc.

Just because something is not taken care of right away, doesn't mean that it won't be taken care of when a mod sees it.

I wasn't saying there is no moderation. When you see posts being selectively removed right at the same time as very offensive posts are being made, you can't say mods are busy...

I will make use of that report function, though, thanks.

[BrickSquad]

some mods do close certain topics only just so they can have the last word and look like they won (jamz), example i posted a topic, and then he replies saying all this mean stuff even though i have never had an encounter with him before, and then he closes it right after, so i cant defend myself or anything... some mods just abuse there power for evil..

[ElCrema]

I also wanna thank Drakas for hi-skills because that really boosted AC.

Mod Edited: Is it really necessary to be disrespectful and try to start a flame every time someone mention Drakas? Now, please, take your hate and personal problems with him elsewhere.

+ warning

[Apollo{TyD}]

Ok. Only to make it short:
- w00p is the oldest clan
- w00p always have been one of the biggest and strongst clans
- w00p has contributed many popular servers since a long time
- w00p has made fragfests long time before other ppl ever started to think about events
- w00p is hosting a quite popular ladder service

So, after this ascertainment of the facts it would be nice if we (and you - meaning the threadstarter) can now accept that other clans have had also their role in AC's history. Although some people can't imagine - the importance of the clan Tear you Down! (as like that of the most clans) isn't that big as like in the 0.93 and the beginning the 1.0 era. Also it is a misconception that we are "close" (or closer than others) to the devs - no, we aren't. I could trot several examples, but I'm sure that people don't believe me anyway - cause it is easier to hold on their construction of enemy stereotypes, their black-and-white-separation.

PS: Sorry if this becoming offtopic now, but this ongoing grumbling and accusing of the clan TyD! is going on my nerves.

And for the others out there - there is small line of wisdom for you:
"If you have no idea, it's sometimes better to shut the mouth rather then talking stupid"

2nd PS: Maybe it is a good idea to close down the "infrastructure" forums and to forbid similar discussions in the others as long the people aren't able to concentrate onto the prime aspect of all of this, which is playing the game AssaultCube.

[PolarHedgehog]

You could split the forums; for trolling and for mature discussion (pff)

[DrauL]

Apollo, dont get all mad and defensive.
He simply /implied/ that since anything against you as a clan (TyD) gets closed or deleted nd anything against him isnt. Ive seen this in the threads so dont get all high and mighty bro.
There are two TyD mods and two DES mods, + jamz. I dont see why, since w00p is the longest running, and imho the most contributing clan doesnt have a "representative" there. With all the work on these forums for mods, spam, trolls, etc, i dont see why you wouldnt need another mod.

[Drakas]

Drakas, people cuss out at you and nobody cares because no-one likes you.
You could split the forums; for trolling and for mature discussion (pff)

Just hang around in IRC for a while, and if you see Drakas, ask him nicely.

that is, give him a blowjob

No comment.

---

So, after this ascertainment of the facts it would be nice if we (and you - meaning the threadstarter) can now accept that other clans have had also their role in AC's history.

That's not the issue.

Although some people can't imagine - the importance of the clan Tear you Down! (as like that of the most clans) isn't that big as like in the 0.93 and the beginning the 1.0 era. Also it is a misconception that we are "close" (or closer than others) to the devs - no, we aren't.

And I don't spread it.

I could trot several examples, but I'm sure that people don't believe me anyway - cause it is easier to hold on their construction of enemy stereotypes, their black-and-white-separation.

Again, not of issue.

PS: Sorry if this becoming offtopic now, but this ongoing grumbling and accusing of the clan TyD! is going on my nerves.

It's really correlation, not causation. TyD posts are only an example, but moderators doing similar things aren't exclusive to TyD. My apologies for being so unspecific.

And for the others out there - there is small line of wisdom for you:
"If you have no idea, it's sometimes better to shut the mouth rather then talking stupid"

That's very true. I hope that people who don't understand what I'm saying don't butt in.

2nd PS: Maybe it is a good idea to close down the "infrastructure" forums and to forbid similar discussions in the others as long the people aren't able to concentrate onto the prime aspect of all of this, which is playing the game AssaultCube.

The community already exists. I recall Gibstick making a post quoting a part from Bloodfrontier: once you start supporting a community, there's no easy way back. Since that's the case, you have to try and get the best outcome possible from the resources available. There is a solution to all the problems of people disliking 1.1, of people disliking the fact that they can't play their public games any more, and also people disliking the fact that the moderators are acting so naively. So, I'll present you with some things first.

Apollo, dont get all mad and defensive.
He simply /implied/ that since anything against you as a clan (TyD) gets closed or deleted nd anything against him isnt. Ive seen this in the threads so dont get all high and mighty bro.

That's more on the line.

There are two TyD mods and two DES mods, + jamz.

There are more, representing pretty much every major clan. I used to be part of this moderation team (actually, was in my own group of Super Moderators) in the previous forum, but a professional disagreement between myself and Brahma was probably the reason why I never got it back.

I dont see why, since w00p is the longest running, and imho the most contributing clan doesnt have a "representative" there.

Couldn't care less.

With all the work on these forums for mods, spam, trolls, etc, i dont see why you wouldnt need another mod.

It's more about representation of power equally. For example, even if I do spend considerable time talking with certain people, me and some of my members still banned them for bad behaviour quite a few times because I/we don't find it acceptable. I try to treat players as equally as I can (although it's not always the case), and only in exceptions do I not do that. Heck, I should've removed quite a lot of people from the ladder for talking shit about me, but I didn't. Why? Cause I want to give them another chance. And I don't want to express personal power over anyone unreasonably (in anger... say, someone doesn't understand what I mean - I do get angry but try not to make any stupid sayings).

It's not about representation of clans, it's about the use of the privileges people from these clans have. Let me explain the issue in more detail: it's not {TyD}, but it's the moderation of the forums, and the {TyD} post removals are only a good example of the issue.

Thread closures/removals:
1. A thread starts off with a topic that none of the important people want to discuss: the thread gets closed, no explanation or reference.
2. A thread starts off with a topic that has already been discussed: it gets closed, with no reference nor explanation. So someone will make another thread about the issue again.
3. A thread starts off with a reasonable topic and then someone starts making personal attacks or trolling. It gets closed, and the offenders get away with it. Anyone offended can't retaliate without creating new discussions and wars.

Often, that thread gets closed and only the moderator has a last say (you, Apollo, are a great example, who posts even after a thread is closed). This offends many other members who have something useful to say and add, and are prevented from doing so. It shows that you have the special right to make a final point and others don't. Example: I think there was an Xu| thread, pwnage closed it, and then Apollo posted afterwards, to give it his last words.

(2): Have a look at this, for example: see here

pwnage{TyD} can open this again if he likes to reply here.
If not, look/ask on {TyD} forum/irc.

Do you see the point I am making?

(1): Xu thread - a {TyD} incident was under discussion there. The blacklist entries there were removed as well. The whole issue was silently taken to the {TyD} forum. How nice.

(2): AC 1.0 / 1.1 threads

(2): Gema/other crap servers: there was a thread about 1.0.4 bad server removal (gemas/other crap): I was writing a constructive point, to give an explanation to the person (ie. those servers often run nazi maps, and it just co-incides), but after spending 20 minutes writing it, I was not allowed to post.. because it was closed then! In the end, the people asking about the server removals were not given a reasonable explanation (or a solution, in fact...). Problem is that this niche was created from 1.0 and from the BS clan. You can't simply destroy and get rid of a community, and unfortunately, I was some of the people who helped destroy BS. Don't you think that making a post "All gema people go here" in the Servers' forum, giving information on how to have their fun without making AC look bad, would do much better instead? Anyway, fact is, that crossed me very much as well as the few people that were making their points. I'm no saint, you know. I do make mistakes, but I'll try and acknowledge and accept them. And there's no black-and-evil, and I don't want to get into some stupid catfight saying who's evil and who's not.


(3): Another great topic, TO ALL SERVER ADMINS: How to be the best Admin Ever!. This started off as a great thread, and in the end it turned into nothing more than disgust. A person spent so much time writing up a guide, and his friend decided to post that link for the benefit of everyone, and it turns out to shit, and the moderators can do nothing but close the thread (instead of removing the offending posts).

(3): 1.0 alternative server list: this thread again was closed, but it seems that it's back open again.

(3): again.... There are, of course, reasons why he behaved like that since his friendlier posts/threads were closed/removed and he was banned for less rude behaviour before that. Track back the thread, and you'll see...

However, the closing of that thread, and this don't get my sympathies, either:

Topic for #assaultcube is “http://assault.cubers.net/ - Get AssaultCube now! - We are P@ndel-less for 7 (count em - SEVEN - jiba ftw) whole days! Paaaartayyyyy! :D”

(jiba here mentioned by mistake, it seems, btw). You know, this is part of the issue.

Come on, you are given such big responsibilities and yet you decide to abuse that privilege and defame someone just like that? I'd expect calm and mature response, but this post, by the same person who set that topic, makes everyone feel like they've lost to bad attitude.

..
One of the major points being, if you have a problem with another clan/player, don't bring it onto the forums. It is not the kind of stuff we want to be showing off to newcomers. Voicing your opinion in a civil manner is one thing, but trolling/spamming your opinions at others in hopes that they will stop thinking for themselves, and just agree with you, is entirely another thing. Let's try getting something contructive done with the forums, eh? Rather than splitting the community even further than it already is?
..

About multiple threads/closing: there's a lot of redundancy and it needs to be removed.

In all these cases, only anger is caused. And it's pissed me off too much for me not to say anything.

I'm not making a single personal attack in form of ad hominem, unlike some people here. My arguments are strong enough for me not to require to defame anyone. These people, in my opinion, are an excellent example of why this community is quickly falling apart.

The approach needs to, and can be changed, and I hope the moderators do understand that.

I'm expecting to see some "tl;dr", "you're a dick", and "I'll quote this cause I'm cool" after this, and such behaviour will never be part of this optimistic "Let's try getting something contructive done with the forums, eh? Rather than splitting the community even further than it already is?".

I've told what problems I think there are, explained them, and provided solutions. Hope they're taken into account.

[titiPT]

After reading this, all i can say is: thank you Drakas. You have set a very good example.

[Undead]

its failing because the AC COMMUNITY ELITE MODERATION CANDIDATE people got mod ( you know who you are )

evidence is strewn everywhere

[OpenSource]

(2): Have a look at this, for example: see here

pwnage{TyD} can open this again if he likes to reply here.
If not, look/ask on {TyD} forum/irc.

Do you see the point I am making?

Isnt that a bit «out there»?
That thread was about TyD having 2 forums.
Is that really a AC forum topic?

I also told thread-starter where to ask about the matter, and there is also posted a link to TyD forum about that.
Just a quick inquiry.

I cant see what the question/thread had to do with AssaultCube forum.

[Luc@s]

i'm convicted that "non clanplayers" only must be admin here ;)

ps:(omg clown is back ? like apollo? lol i see it's people that assume their words ;) )

yes :)

EDIT : the same about Halo :

If a clan has a problem with another clan or player, please, take it to their forums or your own forums. [...] Closing the thread...I (or another mod/admin) can open it if Halo wants an opportunity to react to the accusations.

So the rules aren't the same for everyone ? I didn't say closing was not justified in this case - just the last thing Jamz said (I can open if Halo asks) show their is a conflict of interest here. Like in many cases in this forum. Unfortunately, many posts which could have proved that were deleted.
But the discussion happening here is very interesting and this thread shouldn't be closed :)

[tempest]

Why do threads get closed anyway? Well, maybe for the n-th post whining about map restrictions and presumed changes to the sniper rifle that simply don't exist, okay.
But, dear mods, why do you close threads for the reason "everything said here". Do you really think you are the only one to judge about that? Maybe someone has to say something useful...
(Of course, there are gravediggers, but most people only do that once, as the reactions to that are harsh enough and most of them just didn't know)

[Gibstick]

EDIT : the same about Halo :

If a clan has a problem with another clan or player, please, take it to their forums or your own forums. [...] Closing the thread...I (or another mod/admin) can open it if Halo wants an opportunity to react to the accusations.

So the rules aren't the same for everyone ? I didn't say closing was not justified in this case - just the last thing Jamz said (I can open if Halo asks) show their is a conflict of interest here. Like in many cases in this forum. Unfortunately, many posts which could have proved that were deleted.
But the discussion happening here is very interesting and this thread shouldn't be closed :)

There is actually a lot of crap that goes into these threads before it is closed. If anyone had anything important to say they would have said it by then. If trolls and flamers scare away the good people then just get rid of the trolls and flamers.
@Drakas: Yes

[Ghost]

EDIT : the same about Halo :

If a clan has a problem with another clan or player, please, take it to their forums or your own forums. [...] Closing the thread...I (or another mod/admin) can open it if Halo wants an opportunity to react to the accusations.

So the rules aren't the same for everyone ? I didn't say closing was not justified in this case - just the last thing Jamz said (I can open if Halo asks) show their is a conflict of interest here. Like in many cases in this forum. Unfortunately, many posts which could have proved that were deleted.
But the discussion happening here is very interesting and this thread shouldn't be closed :)

There is actually a lot of crap that goes into these threads before it is closed. If anyone had anything important to say they would have said it by then. If trolls and flamers scare away the good people then just get rid of the trolls and flamers.
@Drakas: Yes

+1

Yes Drakas, you have some nice points there. But some of those are useless.

[Apollo{TyD}]

Do you really think you are the only one to judge about that?

That's part of the mod's job. If there is problem with that use the way Bukz implied here.

...

1.
The "missing thread" hasn't gone into oblivion. As OpenSource already implied the post has been doubleposted at TyD! forums. You can read it here. According to the fact that people generally get the advice that if they have a problem or something to discuss with a certain clan that they should post in their forum instead in posting at the official forums, I don't see any problem with that proceeding.

2.
According the so called "TyD incident". I can't speak about the content of a post in the AC forum, but you can read our reactions here and some staments here. I hope this clarify it once for all.

3.
The thread 1.0 alternative server list is in fact open again. Therefore this should something to be happy for. Whoever is looking to the posts will find the same ongoing flaming...

4.
...like in the post TO ALL SERVER ADMINS: How to be the best Admin Ever!. The only crucial point I see in this thread is that an admin started the flaming (that is something we can discuss of course). Due several restrictions I can't reopen that thread "as wished" - See here. As matter of fact I have to use the mod's privilege to post in a closed thread.

5.
... which is true, that I have also done in the thread Xu - Exile Unit. Sorry that I have to disappoint everyone - but I'm also human and when I'm here I'm not focussed in looking always if the "closed" button is already on. So, SORRY. If some think that this is should be prevented in the future he can of course send a request to the admins to remove that privilege (but he should have in mind that there is a reason for it, see 4.). Nevertheless, the allegation that "This offends many other members who have something useful to say and add, and are prevented from doing so" is something I can't prove. The thread never has been reported for that, nor that I, another mod or an admin has been contacted as far as I know.

6.
This thread sounds a bit like the past discussions about blacklisting when people are talking against admins who tried to fight against cheaters rather then talking about the cheaters who caused the existance of blacklist, admins aso. Same goes here.

Of course the moderation isn't perfect - in fact we are discussing currently about new official forum rules cause the former ones hasn't been republished here and seems to be lost. Nevertheless if we take a closer look into the closed threads then we will often find the same five or six people who turn every thread into a ridiculousness. And some of them have also posted into this thread. Some of them also have been already warned and banned in the past. Do they have learned something - I dont think so. So if we search for "excellent examples of why this community is quickly falling apart" - there you find it.

Same goes of course to the many ppl here who suffer on narcism, which means easy in given critics, and failing in receiving it. Whatever, we have to deal with them somehow.

7.
Conclusion: Whatever, imo this game has had already it's best time. It might be now more technical advanced then years ago and we have more modes and nicer maps. But the most people who helped to made all of this, who brought in their passion and knowledge, are gone. The often glorified community has been nearly destroyed by itself: spammers, offenders, bigmouths, enviers, long time members who turned out to cheaters, resentful devs, "victims" and no to mention that bunch of 13 and 15 years old "I'm-the-greatest"-wannabes which currently in control of this forums and so on, and so on... And they are still there like a pest.

This all is probably the last rise up before death is coming. I'm very pessimistic that this game will be still active developed to this time in the next year.

[Brahma]

Tbh, and unfortunately, I agree.

[pwnage{TyD}]

I also wanna thank Drakas for hi-skills because that really boosted AC.

[img][/img]


Mod Edited: Is it really necessary to be disrespectful and try to start a flame every time someone mention Drakas? Now, please, take your hate and personal problems with him elsewhere.

+ warning

Sorry to be quoting a lot of text here. This is an example of what we don't accept.
We as a moderator group should try to be more comprehensive when we see insults or discriminating posts towards long time community members and contributors. A couple of days ago there was a question about forum rules under general discussions. A proper rule set existed on the old forums, it was written by Nighthawk. But since the old forum is gone, (due to various reasons) we don't have a thread for rules.

Recently the moderators have discussed the importance of such a rule set, also in combination with the warning system. The warning system is already in place, however even though there are guidelines of different warning levels I think it is still a bit opinion based. With a proper rule set, I think we can point more directly, when a certain line is crossed.

(2): Have a look at this, for example: see here

pwnage{TyD} can open this again if he likes to reply here.
If not, look/ask on {TyD} forum/irc.

Do you see the point I am making?

I didn't know about this thread as I don't usually read everything posted in the Offtopic boards. If it had been posted somewhere else, I had probably seen it better. But as OpenSource suggested, this was directed to TyD, and could just as well have been written on our forums, as it did the same day.

(1): Xu thread - a {TyD} incident was under discussion there. The blacklist entries there were removed as well. The whole issue was silently taken to the {TyD} forum. How nice.

The blacklist entries where removed as well. But not by me, not by any other TyD either. For my sake they could have been there, though it wouldn't solve anything.

<jamz> MM10 blacklisted NEF for hacking the xU forum
<jamz> Francois blacklisted all of KH for being racist
<jamz> MM10 blacklisted Francois (as Brett) for clantag abuse/impersonation
..
<jamz> I only deleted MM10's because it was obviously a flamewar

The whole issue was silently taken at the TyD forums, and Draul from the Xu| clan given access to see, post and read it. Last time it was a similar incident like this, I remember a 2 day ongoing flamewar. It didn't solve anything rather than causing two major contributors to leave, walls of text and discrupt in the community.
This time we where able to have a discussion without 3rd parties involvement, disrupt and accusations.

[BrickSquad]

Pwnage you said - We as a moderator group should try to be more comprehensive when we see insults or discriminating posts towards long time community members and contributors.

Why not just be more comprehensive to every member of the forum, why do they have to be a long time member or contributor?

[pwnage{TyD}]

Pwnage you said - We as a moderator group should try to be more comprehensive when we see insults or discriminating posts towards long time community members and contributors.

Why not just be more comprehensive to every member of the forum, why do they have to be a long time member or contributor?

It was merely an example. Sorry about that, of course it applies to the general community.

[BrickSquad]

oo ok my bad

[Huntsman]

Just saying Carlglass hacked TyD forums and got bbanned from everywhere, And NEF hacked the Xu| forums, and got removed from TyD, Doesn't that sound a bit bias..

[Alien]

i received 40% warning for "personal attack against a mod and flaming (+4/10 points)" by Brahma, you can read all my 86 posts and i doubt if you will find that one post for which was it :) yep, some mods probably missed the purpose of this tool but whoever being here a bit longer would care. :P

But i think that this guy (JMM) who wrote this, has less warnings. :P Obvious try for national flamewar.

Did the people on the server speak mainly Spanish/Portuguese?

ps.i haven't read that posts as #15, i am not crazy :D