Is this forum's moderation failing?

[Apollo{TyD}]

Just saying Carlglass hacked TyD forums and got bbanned from everywhere, ...

People who used the same nick has been banned and will be banned on our servers and channel. What others are doing isn't in our control. NEF has been removed from clan in accordance to our rules. If others are deciding to do a stricter and harder punishment - well, again this this isn't in our control. Nevertheless both incidents have - beside the fact that some took over control a forum which he shouldn't - nothing much in common regarding intention, damage and consequences. Or in other words this is comparing apples with pears.

Btw. the nick was clarglass and not one of the many play of words which has been published by some trolls in the past days.

[Hellspell]

In a word, yes. The moderation of this forum is indeed FAILING under the current group of moderators. Therefore I propose that I, Quorthon, should be made the SOLE moderator of this forum.
All those in favour of this motion say "Aye".
As to those opposed, you have no say in the matter.

[ElCrema]

I can only speak for myself, I usually don't close threads, unless is shit like this: http://forum.cubers.net/thread-1020.html (We don't need a spamming lesson, people are proving to be already very good at that ;)

If I see something that I do not agree with (like the post I quoted here) I would edit it (without modifying) and warn the user. That's imo works better towards educating pepople.
Now, notice that used "imo"and that's seems to be the problem here: Currently we have no rules and each mod is going by its own mind, and sometimes, we are making mistakes and taking public forum issues to a personal level.
The only solution to that, as pointed out in here already, is that we discuss and post detailed rules for both regular users and mods, that way a lot of problems and resentments would be avoided and those who are abusing this tool would receive the proper punishment and everyone would know right away the reason why.

Now I find it funny how some here are saying that no clan member should be a mod, I'm sure if that was case, they would be the first ones to shout the totalitarianism of the devs ;)

[Drakas]

Another small proposition: any warned posts should say "warned post", and possibly with a reason beside it. This way, you wouldn't need to remove offending posts and confuse everyone, and would instead tell everyone where the poster's fault was, and also how to behave.

I'd rather you didn't respond to things people are writing off-topic. The main concern in this thread is the moderation of this forum and IRC channel, not what happened outside of there. What happened, happened. What will happen (according to the course the moderation has been/is taking) is the relevant thing here.

I think that the best way to deal with threads popping up about outside-business is to give the two sides a chance to at least link to both their respective forums/statements, and then close the thread. However, this is not as simple in practise, so well-defined rules with room for exceptions would sound better.

Same with offending posts... now various cases are being closed/removed inproportionally whereas it'd be much better if they were made example of, and closed/removed only if necessary (ie. there's no proper example to make, or the content is just ..).

Edit: yeah, how TheCrema did it is Ok, but I think the forum software does have the functionality to do that without editing the post (ie. reducing the redundancy and adding the consistency).

[DrauL]

Dear DrauL

You have received a warning from the staff of AssaultCube - Forum.
--
Twice in the last couple of days you have made posts which are antagonist comments to other members offensive insults.
--

Im just sayin'

[Huntsman]

I personally don't see anything wrong with those warning reasons, but we should stay on topic.

[DrauL]

Im saying huntsman, that you should gtfo -_-

1) antagonizing? my ass.

2) i didnt spam either of those threads.

3) Brahma's swearing warning was just because i mentioned his anticheat. he deleted my post, hence no link to thread.

[MusicMan10]

Btw. the nick was clarglass and not one of the many play of words which has been published by some trolls in the past days.

carl_glass was my favorite, but carlglass_nascimento comes in at a close second.

I can only speak for myself, I usually don't close threads, unless is shit like this: http://forum.cubers.net/thread-1020.html (We don't need a spamming lesson, people are proving to be already very good at that ;)

lol that was the one halfway relevant post ive made in my entire time on this forum

[JMM]

But i think that this guy (JMM) who wrote this, has less warnings. :P Obvious try for national flamewar.

Did the people on the server speak mainly Spanish/Portuguese?

I'm going to clarify something: my intention was not to start a flamewar and/or to insult anyone at all; it was simply a joke on (a) common stereotype(s).

[Huntsman]

That is what I took it as and so did Titi who is Portugese

[MorganKell]

This all is probably the last rise up before death is coming. I'm very pessimistic that this game will be still active developed to this time in the next year.

Really? Where do you get off being able to make that assessment? You leave, LEAVE, the game because of a bunch of bigmouths, spammers, offenders, etc etc for near a year, likely a little less 7 months I think, and you're able to say that this game will die?? Are you kidding?! I have been here since I started playing back in 2007. I came up as a 40 drinking shimmy who just chilled and had a good time. I've had great times, and I've had horrible times. I've lived through most if not all of what could possibly go wrong and right in a game that involves a lot of people from many different walks of life. I have went to war and lost many friends in the process. I have a chip on my shoulder the size of King Kong. What you and Clown did was honorable in it's own way, but it fucking killed me and everyone else who played this game. Yet you think you can say that AC is on it's death throes?! It's not! Because whether or not you continue playing and even if active development stops... I will STILL be HERE. I like AC too much to give it up because of a stupid forums. I like AC too much to care what any of you think anymore.

Alas, I am too slow and my thoughts have bypassed quite a few other good posts. As I am writing this I will include an answer to the more recent ones so that I can keep the topic moving as much as possible.

If you have a problem with some of the mods, I don't see how this thread is going to help. Why not talk to one of the devs/RandumKiwi directly?

If you hate Kiwi and the feeling is mutual? What then?

This thread is very useful in that it is a well thought out question deep down inside of it, and there are many other thoughts that can be branched out, and discussed by our lovely community. As long as no one takes anything said in here too serious then everything will be fine. Drakas makes several good points. I agree with most if not all of them. In particular that clans need more representation as this is the central forums for AssaultCube. I also think that the mods are getting a real blasting. They're trying to deal with a rule-less forum. Kind of like the Wild Wild West. They will make mistakes, but in more than a few cases they have come through with what are ultimately good decisions. This is why I love them.

What everyone really needs is a clear head. Leave the forums, stop posting here for a week or so and just play. That's right. Go ingame and PLAY!! You can lose alot of aggression and anger on the battlefield. It clears your mind. Turn of the IRC when you do it also. Turn off everything but your mind and that lethal as hell V-19 shotgun you're rolling with, or even that Piranha Teeth SMG, and FRAG!! PLAY!! THIS IS AC!! I didn't sign up to post on a forum. I signed up to meet other people who liked this game as much as I did. Tell you what, I found them. Have you?

[JMM]

That is what I took it as and so did Titi who is Portugese

He did?

Well, that's been cleared out now. Also, if I do happen to offend someone, you can always tell Zarj, zabi or Plague that JMM is being a bully.

[ElCrema]

And the posts between #35 and #42 (but Morgan's one) are clear a example of why is so hard to keep a good discussion going and why do we need some forum rules asap!

[DrauL]

settle down Crema

[Huntsman]

now you're just asking for trouble DrauL

[ElCrema]

Well, its not like Brahma is gonna be kicked out of the devs team caus he gave you an unfair warning (especially caus this was not the case)
Anyhow, in case same of you here are missing the point of this thread: we are here to discuss the best ways to moderate this forum, not to cry over past alleged mistakes (points were well made about those mistakes and the discussion evolved past that, in case you didn't notice). So, if you have nothing to say that is gonna contribute to this matter, just be quiet or open another thread to satisfy your attention neediness, now if you just fell like defying authority, go drink a natural ice and smoke a lucky strike behind a barn, at least you gonna look tough and cool to some chicks, enjoy while this is all it takes...

Now, enough with this trolling crap!

[BrickSquad]

why dont mod and devs just get together and make rules lol.. it will take like 15 20 mins just to make simple rules.

[Emoposer]

I completely agree with Drakas. I would just like to point out one thing that I think isn't addressed. As much as the forum moderation is falling, so is the quality of the AC community posts. This is a dual relationship. Bad moderation causes people to get angry and post/flame against this moderation. Then these posts are either left up and more people follow suit, or they are removed and harsh punishment is dealt or the topics are closed without a reason being given. This makes the same people angry and the cycle continues. While both moderators and community has to improve to create a better experience for everyone, let's be honest. Getting the comparatively few mods to improve their moderation is a lot easier than getting the vast community members to comply first. Better moderation (i.e. reasons for threads being deleted, even if the reason is obvious a small written reason would help, deleted posts should have a reason/warning made public, threads NOT being removed secret police style) needs to come first and then you will see a better community being built.

[Apollo{TyD}]

Really? Where do you get off being able to make that assessment? You leave, LEAVE, the game because of a bunch of bigmouths, spammers, offenders, ....

And we shouldn't forget that you have one of biggest of them.

I have been here since I started playing back in 2007.

Wow, as long as I am. But does this matter in this discussion? Don't think so.

What you and Clown did was honorable in it's own way, but it fucking killed me and everyone else who played this game.

You are responsible for your own luck (see first line).

I like AC too much to give it up because of a stupid forums. I like AC too much to care what any of you think anymore.

And that's why you are using once more in telling us your history of suffering instead in bringing up some concrete moderation ideas or just shutting the mouth.

What everyone really needs is a clear head. Leave the forums, stop posting here for a week or so and just play. That's right. Go ingame and PLAY!! You can lose alot of aggression and anger on the battlefield. It clears your mind. Turn of the IRC when you do it also. Turn off everything but your mind and that lethal as hell V-19 shotgun you're rolling with, or even that Piranha Teeth SMG, and FRAG!! PLAY!! THIS IS AC!! I didn't sign up to post on a forum. I signed up to meet other people who liked this game as much as I did. Tell you what, I found them. Have you?

The first good paragraph I've read since a while. Probably cause it goes in a similar direction like

And for the others out there - there is small line of wisdom for you:
"If you have no idea, it's sometimes better to shut the mouth rather then talking stupid"

2nd PS: Maybe it is a good idea to close down the "infrastructure" forums and to forbid similar discussions in the others as long the people aren't able to concentrate onto the prime aspect of all of this, which is playing the game AssaultCube.

why dont mod and devs just get together and make rules lol.. it will take like 15 20 mins just to make simple rules.

Well, cause the community is interested in beeing involved in everything - why not starting with writing down some simples rules rather than talking about. That's a lot better this accumulation of wounded vanities, cause-and-effect analyses and talking about personal qualifications.

[DrauL]

Everyone needs to take a valium and chill out for a an hour get together and get the shit happening.

[XFA]

This forum has never had perfect moderation.. this isnt new..
Remember those "I'm staying" threads? Well a mod/admin removed some of those posts when they were posted..

[BrickSquad]

well apollo, thats not my job

[Apollo{TyD}]

well apollo, thats not my job

I could say the same cause this isn't "my" forum.

But whatever - cause throwing in of factoids and demands is easier than writing down some useful proposals I haven't expected much.

[BrickSquad]

i really dont care appolo lol, this is an online game bro.. stop acting like this is some serious shit

Online video game

everyone is acting like this is some world ending shit, but whatever, i know some of you just like to feel useful so you act all high and mighty on a video game, whatever floats your boat

o imo

Mod edit:

Warned user for trolling.

[Mr.Floppy]

You are right BrickSquad, everybody may just laugh and smile. Stopping to develop, contribute and providing services. Well, the game would be gone then, but at least nodody needs to care anymore...

[Drakas]

i really dont care appolo lol, this is an online game bro.. stop acting like this is some serious shit

Online video game

everyone is acting like this is some world ending shit, but whatever, i know some of you just like to feel useful so you act all high and mighty on a video game, whatever floats your boat

o imo

I kindly ask you to not participate in this thread because you clearly don't understand anything that's been written and the context of those participating.

These contributors spend a considerable amount of time and effort to be called serious.

The least you could do is not be disrespectful towards them...

[Syntax]

i really dont care appolo lol, this is an online game bro.. stop acting like this is some serious shit

Online video game

everyone is acting like this is some world ending shit, but whatever, i know some of you just like to feel useful so you act all high and mighty on a video game, whatever floats your boat

o imo

You're targeting this at individuals who have spent countless hours and money out of their own pockets to make this game more enjoyable. They do not get paid for their services, nor do they expect to.

How much have you paid to make AC more enjoyable for other players? How much time have you spent running and maintaining blacklists, servers, and ladders?

It feels as if history is repeating itself again. For those who have seen posts about people making such blessings to AC seem like "high and mighty" dictators, you know what I mean.

Anyway, I have no idea how this thread derailed and went from a decent proposal about having greater transparency and fairer moderation has turned into those anti-"high and mighty" dictator threads that we've seen more than a year ago. Sometimes it seems like some people ignore the actual value of the original post and emphasize on the politics. A great spectre still remains in this community, and it is not one that will make either thrive. There are problems rooted much deeper within than BS and crapmaps and a low standard of moderation that would fascinate any armchair anthropologist. But this thread is about none of the issues that plague the community today, and will eventually kill it--it is simply about moderation, which, as stated several times in this thread (the only posts that had anything to do with the topic), can be much further improved.

[Bukz]

Deleting the following posts:

lol drakas go back 2 uni

snaap, drakas got served

Please keep useless posts out of this thread, we're trying to have a serious discussion. :/

---

That was pretty uncalled for @ BrickSquad...

Edit:

Hows that format for letting people know that posts were deleted?

[Undead]

well to be quite honest i have had some favorites over the last couple of weeks.
carl_glass the classic.
carlsoglass
carlos_glasscimento
carmen_glassectra
Frit0(the real carglass)
icarly_glass

n u shuld stop gettin heated over names

[Luc@s]

The fact is, moderation isn't fair, remember when NEF hacked Xu forums. {TyD} could control everything that was said, on TyD forums and AC forums. Some posts were deleted, others were hidden. I'm not saying "TyD is responsible of hacking", but they acted unfairly with Xu. And if they wanted no shit to be said, they had to make something public with some explanation, where this could be discussed, but they didn't, that's why the shit happen.

Why am I talking about this in particular ? Because it's always the same : when something isn't good for moderation's image, it gets deleted/hidden, and some moderators act for them and their mates, not for the forum.

I think many guys have or had this feeling of injustice here, and that explains flaming and trolling.