|SE| servers leaving

[Iguana]

I've decided to take my |SE| servers off of the masterserver and put them on a different masterserver due to recent events on IRC.

If anyone wants to play custom maps on the |SE| servers, they can connect to tm's alternative masterserver via these methods:

Windows and Linux players can connect by downloading the batch or shell script found here or here.
Then place the bat or sh script in AssaultCube's main folder and run that script to start AC and connect.

OSX players can connect by adding this command: -mgc.fr.to --masterport=28760 --mastertype=0

Server owners that wish to migrate over to tm's masterserver can add -mgc.fr.to to their server's cmd.

Any news regarding my |SE| servers or tm's Gema and masterserver can be found on my site or the AC Telegram group.

Embrace the change ~

[1Cap]

Leave the fun maps on the same masterserver as this makes it much easier. Let's just wait for a menu to be created that identifies the type of map on each server.

[barray]

Hey all,

VAH clan servers 3 & 4 are now registered to tm's masterserver, leaving 1 & 2 on AC controlled masterserver.

**Without** summoning a hoard of keyboard assassins: The reason for moving them is that there's a difference, for good or bad and opinions aside, between what we think the future of AC is with regards to maps. Our servers are equally invested in both ideas and we'll see what happens.

|VAH|-B[]

https://vah-clan.github.io/

[gy_be]

Lots of words and drama, one thing I know is that I like seeing less trash cancer maps in the serverbrowser.

[1Cap]

Lots of words and drama, one thing I know is that I like seeing less trash cancer maps in the serverbrowser.

lol 
please. Clearly define what a "trash" "Cancer" map are.
Is ac_syria a cancer map? It was made in few hours ... ac_venison is a wonderful map? NOBODY plays this map .. Swamp is very good? Is rarely played .. Which is better? Let's play ac-douze and get jumping all over the map .. it was not made for the current version of the game .. players can jump high now .. ac_douze looks like a "gema" map all jumping from side to side ... Who defines whether a map is bad or not ... (responding: the whole community).
But this discussion is not new .. the same happens in other games ... But those games that opted for the fun were those that had success ... But some went by another way...
Of course, other games have chosen to make money .. they are commercial products .. they need the marketing involved for the game developers .. business are business.

[Iguana]

trash cancer maps

Send them all to tm's masterserver, problem solved!

Maybe instead of just report random people for cheating, you could start reporting servers that are running cancer maps?

There's around 85 servers on the list at the moment, I'm sure not all of them are cancer free.

[gy_be]

trash cancer maps

Send them all to tm's masterserver, problem solved!

I completely agree.

Maybe instead of just report random people for cheating, you could start reporting servers that are running cancer maps?

There's around 85 servers on the list at the moment, I'm sure not all of them are cancer free.

I can't really start that yet, there is no "Obvious cases of trash maps" thread on the forum right now.

Lots of words and drama, one thing I know is that I like seeing less trash cancer maps in the serverbrowser.

lol
please. Clearly define what a "trash" "Cancer" map are.
Is ac_syria a cancer map?

(snip)

I think that ac_syria is a trash cancer map because it's one huge area, so there is no real need to look for enemies or predict where they might be if you don't see them. So it's dumb fun and it's easy to get used to it, but why settle on dumb fun when you can have slightly less dumb fun on a better map?

[1Cap]

So is this the reason? 
Have you played ac_syria in a 3 x 3 interclan? I'm sure you have not played .. Have you ever played ac_venison in a 3 x 3?
Now it has become more complicated. It is still unclear what a "trash map" is. If there is a large discovered area then is it a "trash map"? Automatically?
I also did not understand what "Dumb fun" means. I always thought fun was just fun ... Imagine creating restrictions on the "type" of fun ... What madness!

[Marti]

Venison is a shit map wtf u on about

[barray]

We're never going to collectively agree what a good or bad map is and if we want people to be creative and build maps, we'll need to accept that we won't all love them all.

I do agree that a beginner player's first experience is really important and them going onto a map where they are being completely owned from behind a wall is not great. Equally, some of those maps created by dedicated players provide really interesting and fun twists to an otherwise generic experience (in my opinion).

I see two different experiences which are both valid and seem to be self-emerging:

* "core" - Officially vetted and supported maps by Devs/Mods for AC that are packaged in the binary. These are considered to be a good experience for new players.

* "extended" - Community created maps that don't fall into the first category and are not officially supported (a game release could potentially break maps (but shouldn't break maps on purpose)). These maps tend not to be a great starting point for players.

To follow on, it would naturally make sense to split these two experiences somehow and ensure that new players see the first and advanced players have the opportunity to explore the second.

I can see any one of the following options working:

* tm's masterserver is allowed to mirror the server list and IP blacklist from AC masterserver.
* The AC client is updated to allow a connection to more than one masterserver.
* The AC server is updated to allow a connection to more than one masterserver.
* The AC client server list provides a way of splitting "core" from "extended" maps/servers.

To me, this is the compromise. Beginner players still get a well executed experience and advanced players have the option of experiencing unique maps.

|VAH|-B[]

https://vah-clan.github.io/

[BlackDisk]

tm's master server looks very interesting. I have created a copy of Avengers server on it.

[1Cap]

Agree 80%

There is no doubt. The best way would be this or something like that. "Official" maps are not the best maps! There are many "unofficial" maps that are great. The choice of maps that are in the initial installation is political. Note this: Unded maps are terrible in terms of fun (people just dont want to play it.. i tried a lot) ... Certainly removing the creative maps is no solution at all ... but as I said before ... the idea seems to be to restrain, control and gain from the publicity of something "Professional" ... The fun is not a priority anymore.. its bad ...

[vector]

STOP !!!                This not needed at the moment.

I know there are issues . Wait let us have a head down on this.
Not that I think the present people will listen.
If no results you have my support. But not after it is discussed fully.

At the moment AC  is in difficulties. Hey so u think by fragmenting is going to be worth a gold medal then heyo.

But I am vector and I ask you to do me the favour of waiting while we talk

I know ,as you do. its a waste of time . But if you do this then let it be done with good intent of the game.

Before you do this .......... list your reasons. simply because if you go your own way then we have arrange alternative Irc and forum.

WE Members have to be facilitated and kept in the know Why?

[1Cap]

Guys, Is it possible to create a launcher with a different master server? Put other maps in the initial installation? Anyone interested in this? Is it possible to make a new launcher with a new forum and publicize it? I could help in part. .. Maybe we could prevent the game from becoming another game, ... keep the soul of the AC and correct certain distortions ...

[barray]

@1Cap I recommend you checkout the Egg/Assault Cube Launcher by @Iguana: https://bitbucket.org/iguanameow/assaultcube_launcher

In theory it should give you access to multiple master servers, although there is still some (much) work to be done. The basics are certainly there.

To be honest, this is a hack-around the fact that we want the game to remain open to interesting creations by different authors that don't necessarily fit into the main theme or ideology of the game. IMO the most ideal situation is that we find some middle ground so that both can exist, within limit. Don't get me wrong, there still needs to be a filter on what can and can't go into the game, but we're talking about changes that make use of an unedited game binary - so I wouldn't call it a different game.

|VAH|-B[]

https://vah-clan.github.io/

[1Cap]

Certainly I agree that such modifications are a distortion to what the game represents.


But the ideal is not to remove so much the possibilities of creating maps "simple" but fun and interesting.

Just create a recommendation to the owners of servers and show what would be the pattern of maps to follow, but in a flexible and rational way, following the "spirit" of the game.
Also show clearly in the list of servers, which are "official", customized (following the recomendantion) and what are "home servers". Let everyone choose your fun ..

...
|VAH|-B[] - Thx 

[vector]

can anyone explain .........Why this has happened.
I understand some of this, or rather am informed of some of it.
What happened in Irc that caused this.

Also I do not understand 1cap at all atm. Why are you so obtuse. 
What I do not understand 1cap is your constant anti issues in here.  Do you agree that the game now needs new direction. New maps , encouragement for mapmakers etc. Or are you sitting there smoked up and thinking. Hey vector he does not know anything. Well news for you  is yes I do. I think actions speak many words, and these people , its seems iggy ,vah and other established players  are saying the same. 
At the end of the day we are not cube 2. We are what we are. And these kids who spend hours , weeks or months on making maps need to be appreciated. Its what Ac needs .

Your comments mean nothing to this issue at all.  They do not add up at all.

Perhaps as I have said we all need to talk on this.

I will not promote a breakaway. I prefer a re arrangement of what we have in AC
Lets face it. We have a dev who thinks he is god.
When really he is an arrogant shit
Hates us all coz we do not agree with his outlandish moments of " I am the ruler"

So lets stop at the moment and think what we want to achieve.
Taking custom maps away is not helping at all.

Who allowed gemma to be dissolved.  That person has to go.
While we are at it . Rogue servers. how long as that gone on. Yet nothing done about it. Yet I see same people sit in certain Irc channels hoping to stay informed.


Well its here now. Take your choices it seems

[1Cap]

Yes, many players have more than one user here in this forum. Yes, several players use different aliases in the game and try to cheat on it. Many olders members have altered their nicnames to hide who they really are.
A simple vote here in the forum will not determine what the players want. But anyone who plays every day knows that fun maps are important to keep many players active. These maps are voted on several times a day.
To say that these fun maps are the reason for having reduced the player base, this is a fallacy.

How many people are currently paying to keep their servers on the masterserver list? Do you want to control that too? This is the point? Controlling server owners through mapping?

[vector]

Hate this americanism of my spelling
I rescind some of my colourful comments 1Cap I just read some of your other statements and actually think your right in some ways.

[stef]

Drakas, Jamz, Lucas, Gy_Be, etc.. --- They change nicknames here and in game. I think they do not want to be seen here in this forum because it harms them in a commercial way. They are in anothers sites in internet promoting how much they are doing for this game and make money from this information, promoting themselves as developers ...

Please, lay off the coke. It makes you look crazy.
Don't do drugs. Stay in school.

Good, remove the possibility of making maps .. remove the home servers in the masterserver ... remove "gema maps" .. remove some game modes ... ok ... this is not AC anymore .. let's call it "newAC " "StefAC "or another name ...

I guess, the hundreds of fixes, improvements and additions to the map editor gave me away? Can't fool you...

Listen. While it is, in part, entertaining to watch you fight straw men all the time - don't you think, there are better uses for your time?

[vector]

Hmm in short STFU stef .
Why get involved. Your feeling insecure atm. lol
Why treat a member like that. He is a valid player so why ?
1Cap has played for years he has the right for a comment.
Your just a joke dev it seems who tinkers with code.
So let me warn you any more and we are all off to another MS


Your not listening to us.

We are serious. We have the money and the nonce .

---

xrd I want stefs post as history and of course then mine.

[Marti]

Finally people start to realise 1cap is actually deluded

[gy_be]

Iguana, could you tell what the actual reason was for removing your servers from the masterserver? Maybe it's missing in the IRC log you've posted, but I never saw anyone saying "your server breaks the rules, remove it or we'll ban it ourself".

Also vector seemingly took 1caps drugs, sad

[1Cap]

Just investing $ 100.00 per week in Facebook Marketing and $ 100.00 in Google ADS - and I will have the publicity I want to this game so what I say will come true. (paid advertising).
or make a good e clear masterserver list to show "official maps", custom maps and (Experimental maps, home made maps, free maps, fun maps, etc).

[Iguana]

I never saw anyone saying "your server breaks the rules, remove it or we'll ban it ourself".

That's the problem, they should have banned them along with most of the servers on the masterserver.

See this thread: https://forum.cubers.net/thread-2677.html

[SELECT ALL] Code:

13. ASS PUNISHERS, low quality maps in maprot, ban date: 26.02.2017
12. Gema Central v3.0, nazi map in maprot, ban date: 19.02.2017
11. Camper 24x7 servers, camper maps in maprot, ban date: 12.08.2016
10. BUJAKA BUJAKA Camper Map TDM, camper maps in maprot, ban date: 25.06.2016
9. ARIA servers, many low quality maps, ban date: 25.06.2016
7. |UF|GameRoom_CTF ClanUF.com; many low quality maps; ban date: 11.11.2015; affects also 2 other UF servers
6. Apocalypse; low quality maps (see below); ban date: 03.11.2015

Low quality maps, camper maps, and in the case of Gema Central nazi map. I host many maps that can be considered as low quality, and there's even a vagina map in there, also I don't have a blacklist and if you come on the server as stalin, hitler, mao, etc... or start saying bad words I wouldn't waste my time banning you. I'm surprised no one cared to ban my servers for the 3 or so years I've hosted them here.

So, I've decided to move them and hopefully someone with masterserver powers will wake up and ban the rest of the crap map servers. It's very easy, just go one each server one by one, upload a crap map, if the map can be voted, then the server should be banned. This is the only way anyone will ever solve the crap  map problem.

For years people have been complaining about crap map and some non-crap map servers, so why isn't anyone doing anything about it?

Here are some examples:
https://forum.cubers.net/thread-8241.html
https://forum.cubers.net/thread-8281-pos...#pid167287
https://forum.cubers.net/thread-4217.html
https://forum.cubers.net/thread-7332.html
https://forum.cubers.net/thread-7642.html
https://forum.cubers.net/thread-4990.html
https://forum.cubers.net/thread-3269.html

Some of those are about crap maps, map restrictions, and how the game should be, etc..
The way I see it, crap maps should be the new target to having servers hosting them banned. Map restriction have done nothing to filter out crap maps, people get around it, upload to some server on the official masterserver, and their craps maps end up work in the end. Even if you remove map restrictions it wont be any better.

Better to separate good maps from bad maps entirely.

[1Cap]

It is easy to decide that we must remove a server when there is a Nazi map or a map with sexual content.
But what is the reason for removing a creative map? The claim that this has reduced the number of players is false. What was used to take at this conclusion? Maps like Kytchen has reduced the number of players?
That is the main reason here. Let a few people decide for everyone. They decide wrong. They make the wrong choices. And they still say it's for the good of the game.
Fun maps are an important part of the game. I say this based on my experience here. Freedom to create maps makes this game interesting.
more options = more players.
PLUS
Is ac_venison a "trash map"? It is "heavy" and lag for many players and is in the official package. ac_cavern ... this map is not "trash"? Why? Becouse do you think he's interesting? Only you guys think that .. nobody plays.
I know ac_syria was not created using the "good practices" of mapmaking .. But I also know it is a fun and interesting map. Just place this map on a server labeled "Free Maps". Stop cutting the game and the fun. Start doing things that bring more players ... Your actions are driving away all players, it's not the maps that are doing it.

[gy_be]

That's the problem, they should have banned them along with most of the servers on the masterserver.

See this thread: https://forum.cubers.net/thread-2677.html

[SELECT ALL] Code:

13. ASS PUNISHERS, low quality maps in maprot, ban date: 26.02.2017
12. Gema Central v3.0, nazi map in maprot, ban date: 19.02.2017
11. Camper 24x7 servers, camper maps in maprot, ban date: 12.08.2016
10. BUJAKA BUJAKA Camper Map TDM, camper maps in maprot, ban date: 25.06.2016
9. ARIA servers, many low quality maps, ban date: 25.06.2016
7. |UF|GameRoom_CTF ClanUF.com; many low quality maps; ban date: 11.11.2015; affects also 2 other UF servers
6. Apocalypse; low quality maps (see below); ban date: 03.11.2015

Low quality maps, camper maps, and in the case of Gema Central nazi map. I host many maps that can be considered as low quality, and there's even a vagina map in there, also I don't have a blacklist and if you come on the server as stalin, hitler, mao, etc... or start saying bad words I wouldn't waste my time banning you. I'm surprised no one cared to ban my servers for the 3 or so years I've hosted them here.

So, I've decided to move them and hopefully someone with masterserver powers will wake up and ban the rest of the crap map servers. It's very easy, just go one each server one by one, upload a crap map, if the map can be voted, then the server should be banned. This is the only way anyone will ever solve the crap  map problem.

Isn't the rule about crap maps in map rotation, not about possibility to upload and vote for crap maps?

[Iguana]

Isn't the rule about crap maps in map rotation, not about possibility to upload and vote for crap maps?

Yes, but you missed this part in the irc:

[SELECT ALL] Code:

<Dani> make is so they can't vote it
<Dani> problem solved

Even if you follow the map rotation rule in the forums, you still end up with the same problem.

People can go on most servers and play camper towers maps.
So would it make a difference if your server has a good maprot and people go and vote camper towers 24/7?

[1Cap]

New reliese and less players.. will be this?

Let me sahre something here... gibbed.me did it for years... We have there server for custom and server for "official" maps.. why gibbed.me server dont stay full of players ? Plus.. This servers have a intermadiate ping and it is very fair to play... 140 ping is too hight? Well, Jamz said it is a third world ping...

[gy_be]

-Aac_syria?