You guys are at each others throats and its making me sick

[Mai Mee Tur]

The old server I hosted had some pretty good custom maps, if I do say so myself. i don't generally pull it up anymore though

[Cho]

Grammar Nazis! UNITE AND FIX GRAMMAR IN THAT LONG SPEECH!

[Undead]

it really does not take anything longer than a few hours at max to search for all possible official maps, and then maybe a week at max to fix these maps up to standard.

there is one problem however.
you wish to force mappers to make new maps that are highly detailed and great and have love injected into their entities and have fabulous layouts. but when this is done then what they dont get played because most of the server owners wont look at them and then the devs wont look at them you work for 3 months or some absolute bullshit just for the random idiot to not take 10 minutes out of their time at max to look at it thus rendering making good maps pointless. and this is why i dont map anymore.

[Snoosnoo]

* Snoosnoo applauds the speech, and then Undead.

Such a point. Mappers aren't gonna produce high quality maps straight away too. If they see maps that aren't asthetically good played more than officials, though, what's really going to motivate them now? Truth be told, I rarely map on my own anymore. I suppose you could say there is little reward for our time.

My first map was bloody awful. It wasn't ac_dropoff like some people would think. It was a map I simply named snoosnoo. A giant circle, with two 'gladiator pits' at either side.

http://i41.tinypic.com/241wfnq.png

Oddly, it got played a few times. It's not like I'll ever see the use of ac_wildwest. I know the map isn't great. The layout is awful for team matches. The lack of custom content capabilities makes creating a special map hard.

It all falls down to the same thing we've been ranting on about for years. "What is the community and what do they want?" Most people know my past. We gave the 'noob' side of the community the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps too much so. What gets to me is that effectively we have a crapmap within the official package. Douze looks lovely, and I'm not hating upon MakkE, but its gameplay rivals that of other crapmaps. It's odd that ac_wasteland should be removed from the officials (Although not the highest of quality. I'm sure Halo could improve it in merely a few days.) but not Douze.

One map that inspired me most to map was ac_bunker. I've said it before, I'll say it again. That map is pretty damn heaven. I've figured its issue is the layout, along with most maps. Players simply don't give complicated layouts a try. To eradicate crapmaps an official map ought to have what the community see as fun, bundled up into one, yet skillfully created.

http://www.upload.ee/image/2204759/twintowers.jpg
Take my revision of twintowers, for example. The only possible way you could remove such a map is by removing mapping all together. On the otherhand, what would you rather see played? A fun map, or crapmap? I was quite surprised when Floppy released Graben. He has the similar ideas that you can't deny the sort of gameplay some of the community want, but you can improve it.

Snoosnoo, out!

[ExodusS]

If I remember correctly ac_swamp was pretty dope, and looks like an official "quality" map to me.

IMO ac_cavern is far better.

[Snoosnoo]

IMO ac_cavern is far better.

IMO stop bigging up your maps ;)

[Stranz]

IMO ac_cavern is far better.

i don't know if you and Undead tried to make this map fair enough to not have AR players rushing through the map in no time, but if you did, there's a way for them.

even though i am not against AR sprinters, when this comes with a sided map, like desert3 CLA, the difference gets bigger between bases.

for what i see on ac_cavern, RVSF is the stronger side on this map, it does have 2 entrances quite defined and not really big, in other hand, CLA's entrances are quite open (i see the layout and explains why is that way, no problem with that), the left hand entrance and the next room to it and also the other room next to it (where the kevlar is placed) are all looking straight to CLA. The right entrance to it is open as well and there's somewhat another cut trying to separate the rooms, but still, makes it look like a single corridor which again makes it look straight to CLA base from quite some distance, also just outside CLA base there's a path to the left for a helmet on some kind of bridge that leaves you to a room next to the left entrance.

RVSF left entrance have a single room with 2 doors next to each other, well defined and close to the base itself, the left door goes to another room next to the rails, while the other to the middle (here's the problem and i'll explain that later). The right entrance have a crack in a wall with a helmet, not easy to access on, and bit further a left entrance that is somewhat a bridge over the middle corridor (where the nade is placed).

now for the unbalance, RVSF have compact entrances and is not hard to defend them, the crack in the wall with the helmet is just helpful for them, if anybody attempts to come in from the crates (middle path) eventually will fail trying to make the jump and get in or just die before passing through it.

In regard of the offensive, they have the wide entrances to look from far away to CLA base, from the right hand entrance you can escape to the left path with the kevlar and end on left side, as i said both entrances are open, and can be used to sprint and escape quickly, now that isn't the main open area, as i said there was a problem with the middle, and that's it, you can sprint from CLA to RVSF in no time with AR.

Tl;dr is unbalanced.

besides that the map is outstanding and i have no complaints regarding the layout, the lighting and the details on it, but my post was only regarding to the gameplay, so i won't make this post any longer.

[VenteX]

While we're on the subject of removing official maps...

Do we really need two maps with the same figure-eight layout (ac_keller vs. ac_iceroad) in the official package? Don't get me wrong, but it seems really redundant.

[MorganKell]

dust2 win all!! Seriously no Riverside???

[Cemer]

I think more maps need to be added to said "official list"

Why not let the community decide the maps added? We can probably tell which ones should be added, not a GEMA, per se.

[ExodusS]

Why not let the community decide the maps added?

Lol, i think dev don't add enough official maps in the list but that's not a reason to make a huge bullshit! :D

[Nightmare]

I think more maps need to be added to said "official list"

Why not let the community decide the maps added? We can probably tell which ones should be added, not a GEMA, per se. And Nightmare should be added to the dev team as an official map picker guy.

<3
Yay community choice.

[MorganKell]

Add riverside and I will sell myself to the highest bidder.

[ExodusS]

Tl;dr is unbalanced.

Did you play it in match/inter/pub to say that, because i did with Undead and some another rare occasions with a full server in public and the score was very fair with fair teams.

[CharlyMurphie]

[Edward]

mm I do not understand what it is about my english is so bad trololololol.

BTW, do not remove official and popular maps just because you do not like them. Something bad for you is good for someone else. Ignore the silent majority and play alone \0/

[Stranz]

@.ExodusS*

all said previously can be seen without playing and i use mere logic on what others map happen to be when share similitudes with maps like yours.

btw i just commented about your map cause you said it was far better than swamp, i took the time to see whether was a correct claim or not, and give you my opinion about it, for what i have to say about swamp, i can describe it, but won't be a short paragraph, so for sake of not making this off topic i won't write about it.

something to understand is there's no perfection while creating maps, since this is subjective topic when come to people's perspective also there are plenty of ways to create different kinds of gameplay by a smart combination of design and layout, so is the mapper's job to find out a good balance between both.

--
back in the thread

while i made this point i realize, it is when we may need a single thread for posting appeals for official maps and receiving feedback about them, in not a harmful way, but to encourage people to improve their previous works and to show whoever is in charge of the official package, in a easier way, which maps are suitable to become official.

in addition to this, if what jamz said comes to happen (having official AC server with custom maps) then that thread could even be used for those mappers to give server hosters an option to have a maprot being selected by the community, a poll every month for having a list of custom map rotation etc, i am just throwing ideas, if anybody feels this is pure blasphemy, bear with me, they are just ideas.

[Undead]

While we're on the subject of removing official maps...

Do we really need two maps with the same figure-eight layout (ac_keller vs. ac_iceroad) in the official package? Don't get me wrong, but it seems really redundant.

hey i'd rework iceroad and make the layout much better, ive become a much better mapper and player since i was 13 years old, but i doubt the devs would accept it. i do agree though.

we may need a single thread for posting appeals for official maps

lol no we dont we just need a dev to go ahead and add some more maps to the package but they're quite unwilling to take time out of their infinitely busy schedules to do so (or they're just really lazy and do not care)

[MorganKell]

Undead I'd accept you no matter what age you dialed into the Time Machine. You are a sexy beast of Neolithic proportions. If your awesomeness didn't drip as fuking orgasmically as my golden rings FUCK YEAH I'd be finding me another homie to keg stand with!

[Orynge]

I've given up up on the whole "Get rid of some of the official maps and add better ones in" thing.
It's never going to happen.

[Nightmare]

@ Douze
1) It wasn't built for 10vs.10 ctf, yet this is it's most popular mode.
2) Ridiculously overplayed. Spams the masterserver. Forcing a choice between douze, @camper, and some lag server.
3) Only 'Arena' map in the official package. Every other map is standard. Add more Arena maps, for consistency...or take out douze. :)
4) F1 Halo's fix of the map.

<3

[tempest]

lol no we dont we just need a dev to go ahead and add some more maps to the package but they're quite unwilling to take time out of their infinitely busy schedules to do so (or they're just really lazy and do not care)

Yeah right. And suppose we did that, people wouldn't stop complaining how dumb we are and how we can't judge on maps because we have no idea how to play this game blah blah blah. So there are two options basically: 1) make it a community choice or 2) let the devs decide, but then shut up about it.

[fundog]

aslong the devs not only add their own maps in priority, i would agree with you, to let the devs decide

developers have (should) the most experience and competence in maps, gaming and where the game itself has to go (last instance in things)

They should lead the mood of the game, and the community in a good balance (also think about the picture we give to players which aren't part or only passivly are a part of the community)

but that is what the problem is maybe, objectivity, there are some pretty nice maps ignored out there (which follow 100 percent the mapping rules and are updated and fixed for each version of assault cube)

other threads from the Community worked already in that direction

[Nightmare]

Also at picking future official maps. Please take fps into consideration, a bit more. Maps like rattrap/werk/power have areas where I lose 50+% fps. Especially important for a game with lots of players rocking their 10+ year old computer. :3 <3

[ExodusS]

Also at picking future official maps. Please take fps into consideration, a bit more.

Lol if you know how we care about it when we are making maps!

I've never seen maps who make old computers lag because there is 3 threes in the same POV/room.

developers have (should) the most experience and competence in maps

They are mostly here to dev this game and the mapping part (who should be from the dev part) comes from the independent mapping community (and some of these mappers become devs, that's another story).

[fundog]

and some of these mappers become devs

which makes sense imo, because mappers not only can judge maps, they also have background knowledge, experience and technically major skill in mapping

[ExodusS]

You stoped reading my post at "devs" or you read the end maybe?

[fundog]

i did read it, and i did agree with that what you said

because mappers not only can judge maps

developers have (should) the most experience and competence in maps, gaming and where the game itself has to go (last instance in things)

i was talking about "the big picture" which a developer has to focus in a game as answer of the thread. I didn't talk especially beeing able to make maps, technically.

It's a difference to have the experience and competence (as dev) to judge a map, or making one

[kingCHUBBY]

i love butterflies

Mod Edit: Post edited and user warned.

[MorganKell]

I love rape. Oh I forgot the accent on the A. I love CHEESE*