Current development status

[Sanzo'']

It does require some skills.
However i feel so bad when i know that in the same situation of the guy that just take my flag, i'd have to think and act about how i'll outplay him when he will spawn in order to make my way to base safely. And this man, just rush and doesn't have to be worried about my spawn timer.
The skills part is for sure not rushing into walls and die in one of the most ashmaing ways :p

In fact i don't dislike AR because he is too powerfull in face to face fights, he is strong but it can be handled. The combination of Fighting power AND mobility makes him overpowered.

I was joking on TS the other day with people, saying: "i'm fine if you let that kickback, but then gimme a jetpack"

EDIT: @Mathias

I don't feel sniper to be UNDERpowered, IMO Carbine is a really underpowered weapon on 1.1. The fact that i fell sniper not strong enough is probably due to my past expériences in AC, i used to play this weapon when it was a little bit stronger. It got nerfed, maybe that was needed, we could still debate about that. But during the same time, AR got buffed and this was the real problem, that was like a double nerf to sniper making it fall to far behind. :)

EDIT: "NERF" i'm retarded

[Vanquish]

I think AR and SMG are fine when I tested SVN today, as Sanzo said they've become situational weapons, SMG especially feels much more viable to use in matches. Carbine feels better to handle in this version (more like the instagib rifle in sauerbraten), but I didn't really test it too much, same for shotgun.
I really hate this new sniper though, and in my very controversial opinion I think the sniper balance is terrible, and I'm not even sure if there's a way to get it right. There are players like Sanzo who are genuinely skilled with the weapon, and play it nicely, etc, and that's great, but at the other end of the spectrum you have idiots just scoping at doorways to try and get kills, and it's just annoying to play against. In 1.1 you can deal with this, but if sniper really is as OP as everyone says it will slow down the gameplay dramatically - if a sniper camps to get a hit in 1.2 it will essentially turn into a death sentence for the weakened player. I'd just like to clarify, that I really have nothing against snipers being able to flag or have the same use in a team as a normal player, I actually think that would be amazing, but the problem with sniper is that in addition to being able to play in a team environment with it, you can also dominate with it just by out-camping your enemy, which isn't fun and just slows gameplay down, when AC is supposedly marketed as having "fast, arcade gameplay".

I'm not even hating on the new balance, I think it's mostly great, I just don't understand why everyone's so happy about sniper being an OP weapon. It's too weak in 1.1, but too powerful in 1.2, this is all I'm saying.

Also if the half-time balance will be implemented, it would probably be nice to test it first, instead of getting it "suddenly added". Just my opinion.

[Roflcopter]

Honestly Vanquish said it best. AC is a fast paced game and sniper doesn't fit with it properly. When you try and make some parts fit, it ruins other elements of balance too much.

But sniper will be OP and as you say it's not currently OP.

[Vermi]

power AND mobility that's it man, but everyone complains when u talk about any AR nerf, smg is a joke in modern ac

[Sanzo'']

I have to admit that i kinda agree about what vanquish said on people camping and stuff.
I didn't see things from this point of view because I use my own experiences to express my opinion.
And i'm not that kind of camper/sniper waiting far away on large maps, actually my favourite map is ac_mines which sometimes make people don't understand.

I think we are having a pretty good debate here without any kind of flamming or shit, i'm still at work atm, but let's play some games on SVN this evening to put some images on our words :)

Catch you on Teamspeak, everyone is free to join @loki.woop.us TS3

[Nightmare]

The old weapon balance statistics I ran for new 1.2.0.0 balance led to this conclusion. :3

Spoiler

Target Audience for Specific Players

Winners = AR
Pro Aim Guys = Sniper
Better feel & close range over versatility = SMG
Mentally Ill = Carbine(loses so badly statistically, you really have to play it a certain way just to have a chance.)
Cool Guys = Shotgun

And SMG vs. AR (seems much better than 1.1.0.4)

Spoiler

SMG kills slightly faster against 25-75 armor, but it's spread is basically 3x the AR's so it's only better close range, as it should be. The current AR is the exact same as 1104 mostly. A little less kickback and way less spread. Kill at all ranges & ridiculous rifle sprinting. As long as AR players keep their distance, they have an advantage if it comes down to equal aim and armor. SMG is better close range...sometimes.

And Carbine stats.

Spoiler

Carbine's pierce is down to 40 in svn right now. 59+ armor basically erases it's chance of winning in a head to head straight up fight. And with 66% accuracy(hack much?) vs 59+ armor, it'll take over 2000ms to kill, vs. full autos 720 ms...1000ishms with some missing from them. Each extra miss with the carbine is a huge punishment of 720ms. It is also statistically possible for a full auto to frag a carbiner before the second shot can even be shot in unarmored battles.

[ExodusS]

Well I think the 1.1 AR and the 1.2 Sniper are not comparable at all.

My first argument would be that you can not have a team full of sniper like the actual game is full of AR, it's an absolute non-sence strategy and it will give you a better chance to loose.

It's true the Sniper is much more powerfull than the 1.1 one, but it's still less powerfull than on the 1.0, and I don't remember the forum was spammed by Sniper haters, all saying the Sniper was far too OP, plus players had a far more noble behavior regarding to the competiton scene.

The sniper is a strategic pick, as I said before, your team (3 players) can not be made with more than 1 sniper, (maybe 2 on some maps), it's always usefull to have an automatic weapon. Plus the sniper requiers skill and strategy, wich AR doesn't need if you rush fast.

About other weapons, if I was Larry, I would be even more scaried by the Carabine, because this weapon is much more polyvalent, can counter "any weapons" at "any ranges" and on a larger map panel than the Sniper.

The AR is still strong IMO, because it's easier to own than the 1.2 SMG, but now the SMG have a chance to win in more situations (AR was stronger almost everywhere), the long range SMG will be very hard to own, plus the huge recoil (wich I presonately dislike because it kills the fun, and RIP bad mousse users) make it almost useless on huge maps (ac_iceroad?).

The shotgun doesn't scarry me that much, especially in public, because you need a perfect aim (almost as perfect as the carabine) to deal damages.

[Flames]

Well, it's been 2.5 years since the last version was released and we are still discussing about weapon balance in a game with 5 guns, a lot has been said about it. This is just sad.

[Oracle]

Hadn't the weapons balance discussion already been resolved? What stirred the need to bring it up again?

[Waffles]

Weapon balance will probably never be right, its just a matter of how they're use properly/improperly. In the current version ar is just better at more things. Sniper will be OP in the hands of sanzo and other good snipers. The difficulty in gun balance has more variables than just numbers, and any constructive discussion can only help.

[Vermi]

thing is AR was hardly used in 1.0 now its just staple, i just want a fair go with the smg

[Roflcopter]

This is how SMG feels in SVN. But then I'm just bad.

[Boomhauer]

bah! just release it! there's always the next version!

[Luc@s]

http://i.imgur.com/aEaQGpz.png

This is how SMG feels in SVN. But then I'm just bad.

When did you try it for the last time ?

[Sanzo'']

@Larry, Someone here reddits too much.

[Roflcopter]

When did you try it for the last time ?

Yesterday.

[Cemer]

@Larry, Someone here reddits too much.

[Scorpion]

Update the game gogo

[Nightmare]

* Nightmare was expecting aerke to appear on stage at E3 to show off AC 1.2.0.0

[TheNihilanth]

Haha.

[Boomhauer]

I keep seeing 1.2 available for download. Is there an official change coming soon?

EDIT* I keep getting this error message in SVN when I hit the ESC button,

[Luc@s]

/resetbinds ;)

by the way the beta version you see won't change, check the SVN to see the latest changes.

[Boomhauer]

thx Luc@s. Ohhhhh, a beta. Now I get it. Duhr

[Minty]

A bit late to the party (and haven't played in ages); awesome post.

Is there an ETA?

[ExodusS]

Is there an ETA?

By saying ETA You probably want to say BETA? Yes there is one, but it's kinda odd, I suggest you to test the SVN instead.

[Vanquish]

I think he means "expected time of arrival", and afaik no there isn't one. :(
Or if you meant BETA then as ExodusS said, test the SVN since it's updated more frequently.

[Minty]

I meant "expected time of arrival." Ah well, thanks anyway!

[ursopufe]

Very nice guys!!! one question, are you using cube2 ?

congratulations!

[ExodusS]

^cube3*

[CaptainAhab]

This all looks stellar. Can't wait for the official release!