AC 1.3 or AC 2, Your Expectations and Estimations

[SrPER$IAN]

Here it is a survey about the next version of AC. Both the players and developers can participate it. I hope it will help the developers to know more about the players' tastes and expectations and might also help the players know about the current developing actions that are considered by the developer team.

To make the survey result more useful and valuable , please consider these points before answering the questions:

- Please stick to the reality. (i.e according to current human resource and the devs' policy : ideas about converting the game engine to the Cube2 almost goes nowhere, or a " 1 day" estimation for the next release wouldn't really make sense at all).
- You are free to answer to the questions in two versions scenarios. (i.e AC 1.3 with these features and time and AC 2 with those features and estimated time)

1. AC 1.3 or AC 2? , Which version of AC do you prefer to see on the next release?

2. What new features would you like to be added on your chosen next release?

3. According to the resources in hand (limited number of developers), how much time is enough to fulfill all those new features in the next release?


Thanks for helping your own game growing up and Good luck.

[ExodusS]

A release named AC 2 would be a huge one like AC would never know. The current AC should not even be named 1.2.

[Nightmare]

1

AC 1.3

2

Needs

- /pause for /mastermode 2.
- Luc's control points mode.
- Making the masterserver official maps only for pubs. Custom maps can be played on match servers.
- Default protox playermodels and HUD.
- Improved weapon balance.

Arcade Shooter Stuff

- Merging pistol ammo into the ammobox pick-up.
- Merging helmet into the kevlar pick-up.
- Replace the helmet with a health regeneration pick-up that lasts until you die. Longer pick-up respawn time, and less of them on each map.
- Replace pistol ammo with a +10 damage pick-up that lasts until you die. Longer pick-up respawn time, and less of them on each map.
- Replacing the akimbo with a Light-Machine Gun. One 100 round clip. SMG speed, AR damage, large spread.
- Faster player speed.
- More rifle kickback and recoil on all guns.
- Remove most modes, except for the necessary competitive ones(CTF, HTF, etc.)

3

1 month.

[Vanquish]

1.
- AC 1.3 (EDIT: AC 2 would be a good name if the game was ever ported to another engine, though)

2.
In random order:
- /pause feature
- Optional raw mouse input (thinking along the lines of /in_mouse 2 in ql)
- Ability to use brightskins
- Customizable size/colour options for /clockdisplay
- 1.1 weapon balance but with the 1.2 smg + knife
- Ability to see damage dealt on the scoreboard

3.
I don't know how hard some of those features would be to code. I know some wouldn't take long at all, and some code (such as the /pause feature) has already been written by people like Larry and just not implemented yet. However I get that some features I've asked for (I'm looking primarily at raw mouse input here) would be time consuming. I'd say around six months should be a sufficient timeframe, and that process could potentially be sped up further if developers were willing to accept code submissions from trusted members of the community.

EDIT:
- Please never ever ever include the protox hud/playermodel thing by default. besides looking terrible, my old old PC (128mb gpu) would get horrific framedrops and it was the difference between a stable 125fps and 100-125 jumping all the time.
- I have no opinion on map restrictions since when I do play AC it's usually inters/cm's on official maps only. But all they're doing atm is inhibiting creativity and forcing people to add shit to old maps to make them playable again. In its current state it's creating more problems than it's fixing.

[Hellspell]

1. AC 2 sounds like an entirely new game, which the next release won't be. To call it that would be a gimmick, serving only to attract new players.

2. No-one listens to my ideas but I think at the top of the server list in the menu it would be great to have a side scrolling news bar. The news could contain anything. Ladder rankings. Newest ac forum member. Notifications of when a player with a specified nickname is online, for people too lazy to do the search.

Also I have suggested Tea Bag mode which would work like kill confirmed but you must be crouched on a corpse instead of just running over it. It just adds a laid-back and mildly humorous mode to AC, that I think would be a real attraction to potential new players and just plain fun.

3. I don't know

[Undead]

some of the pointless things i want that aren't already on svn

- remove ALL map restrictions
- remove some bad maps like ac_cavern and ac_rattrap
- proper mod support
- master-server tabs e.g. mod MS and main MS (idk if this is possible)
- half-time side switches for both match and public servers.
- lobby system for match servers
- pause feature
- give AR 1.1 kickback, give SMG more kickback (like 1.0 SMG). experiment with big sniper kickback. also, idk what you guys did, but it feels like my guy move slower in 1.2 than in 1.1.
- carbine needs to shoot a bit faster, SMG needs to do (very slightly) less damage (or just remove this weapon pls). shotgun needs slightly more damage overall.
- remove tlss, pf, tpf.
- better stats accessible after game (e.g. damage done/taken, assists, flag assists, nade efficiency, pickups taken) this isn't necessary tho its just cool.
- central ladder (lol).

imo, it would be better to ask, how all of this get done? simply put; you can't. you can't work collaboratively and be productive when there is no direction for AC. the internal structure of AC's development team prevents anyone other than those in control from doing anything.
the developer team needs to undergo major restructuring, but i doubt that is a possibility. the best thing for AC would be if a new team of developers attempted to develop AC 2.

[Honor]

1-

AC 1.3

2-

I think we need to focus on why are people leaving this game. I'm playing this game since 4years and since the begining we're always talking about weapon balance but this isn't the main subject. AC needs a goal.
My idea: create a central ladder as undead said but give to some players ( top 10 at the end of the month ?) a reward like a customized weapon ( devs have to create a customized weapon = more work for them ). So i think we should remove the possibility to change our weapon by ourselves and earn it by playing.
That's a small idea and i don't know if it's even possible but the game ( at least pub ) will become more interesting.

[Nightmare]

the developer team needs to undergo major restructuring

This. One lead dev with leadership abilities and a direction for the game to go in. Someone who can say 'alright we've consulted with the fans, and this is the list of goals for 1.3. RR, do this, you got 2 months or you're fired. Lucas and stef can do the rest. Okay, we release in 3 months.' It's just like Office Space. You aren't challenging them so they're slacking off. ;)

---

Also forgot to mention it. Autoteam not working unless there is a team gap of 4 or higher. Auto-shuffle at the beginning of games for pubs.

Would anyone compete if say, Redbull randomly got shuffled over to B} mid-game in a clan match, leading to a B} win? Nooo. So why destroy pub competition for the sake of people leaving the game in a week anyways?

[vonunov]

Needs

- Making the masterserver official maps only for pubs. Custom maps can be played on match servers.

Why?

[Huntsman]

Needs

- Making the masterserver official maps only for pubs. Custom maps can be played on match servers.

Why?

^ Agreed. That'll result in a loss of a lot of players who just love some tosok twin towers, which really won't benefit anyone.

[Nightmare]

Needs

- Making the masterserver official maps only for pubs. Custom maps can be played on match servers.

Why?

[Mousikos]

Needs

- Making the masterserver official maps only for pubs. Custom maps can be played on match servers.

Why?

What's wrong with gema? I'd be up for making gema an OFFICIAL mode, or having tabs on my server browser for "Official Maps Only", "Mixed", "Custom maps only", "GEMA"

[Undead]

we really shouldn't continue with map restrictions. its pretty obvious that they don't work in practice, and that they piss everyone off except for the community elite. nightmare is offering a solution where the restrictions will undeniably work in practice by limiting the master-server to official maps, but this just worsens the issue by preventing the existing player-base from playing what they want to play.

so here is my amazing solution that won't make the next version, like iceroad1.1:

have one master-server that is restricted to official maps and another that allows custom maps and mods (gema, zombies, etc). the custom game should follow on from the main game, rather than the other way around, because @camper just turns people off the game. i suppose you could also allow maps approved on akimbo or something on the main master-server as well to encourage mapping.

[Nightmare]

Main point is a new player downloads for the game as it's advertised(ctf des3 festival) then they come in to that masterserver. Guys hopping around, some giant camper map where you get spawnkilled before you know what's happening, some low quality custom maps that don't show off AC's advertised gameplay, then a bunch of gimmicky one-weapon modes. They're furious that the game lied to them and go play something else. The few who decide to keep playing won't get better from those maps/modes/hopping around. This snowballs into a master server full of low quality players. Then veterans leave because they can't even play the game how it's meant to be played without finding friends and getting an intra/inter going.

Besides, they can manage going to a match server to rifle jump. If they can't, they don't understand AC and should be purged by Kiwi.

---

have one master-server that is restricted to official maps and another that allows custom maps and mods (gema, zombies, etc). the custom game should follow on from the main game, rather than the other way around, because @camper just turns people off the game. i suppose you could also allow maps approved on akimbo or something on the main master-server as well to encourage mapping.

<3

[ExodusS]

As I said to Luc@s yesterday, the map restrictions did not help at all, camper@camper maps are still here, same for twin-towers. I was randomly playing on a server when someone voted SWAT-silent-kill, I remember a fun map for T-OSOK on the 1.0, not laggy, not a camper map, the mapper wasn't a genius but he was able to create a decent map, as it didn't fit the new restrictions, someone had to modify it and add some annoying pillars everywhere to kill the gameplay, and also he was able (and I though it was fixed once for all) to add like 15 or more pickups at the exact same spot (at least 3 of each).

The restrictions are not working or are easilly dodged by some smart mappers, many maps that used to be fun disapeared from the servers and now we have the choice between randomword@randomword maps, that are all the same with different textures.

ezjemvill > twintowers > megatowers > campers@campers

The restrictions can't help it, it's just restraining the creativity and agravating the situation, but anyway this as been said many times, years ago by those who were against those restrictions.

---

Filtering the display of the client is probably better than another masterserver IMO.

The idea of the masterserver is not a bad one, but I think something easier should be made instead. Just add a filter to each clients that just checks each current running maps in the masterserver and add them in two categories, official and unofficial maps.

Or just add a setting to show only official maps at start (the basic setting would hide servers running unofficial maps if you are a nasty T-restrictor) and allow each users to show unofficial maps after the official map list.

---

If the gema mode was created, it would be even more easy to filter servers for the client. New players would know they are in a gema server and would only complain about how ignorant they can be if they were disapointed by this game accordingly to what they expected.

[DrauL]

1. AC 1.3 or AC 2? , Which version of AC do you prefer to see on the next release?

AC 1.3

2. What new features would you like to be added on your chosen next release?

I'm not 1337 so IDK

3. According to the resources in hand (limited number of developers), how much time is enough to fulfill all those new features in the next release?

a year, minimum, as this isn't their full time gig

[RKTnoob]

1. AC 1.3 or AC 2? , Which version of AC do you prefer to see on the next release?
AC 2

2. What new features would you like to be added on your chosen next release?
-Sauer engine under the hood: no map restrictions at all, better hardware acceleration.
-Good mod support: Let people make mutators, new weapon mods, game modes, even coop games.
-Official ladder
-Clan integration: register clan names and members.
-PM in MS and Buddy list: better communication all around.

3. According to the resources in hand (limited number of developers), how much time is enough to fulfill all those new features in the next release?
Port or redo the textures to fit sauer: porting is fast, redo or new textures much slower.
Port or redo maps: better to redo them. Prolly fast cause there's a lot of mappers willing to port at least one map.
Mod support: sauer already has this.
Gameplay mechanics: Kinda hard to get it to play exactly the same, tho minor differences wouldn't be insurmountable. Players who are good in AC should have that skill carry over to AC 2. Prolly doesn't take THAT much time, but it's a crucial segment, so a lot of testing is needed.
Out of gameplay mechanics: I don't care if my master server is on tabs or a list or if I have to click 10 menus to get to the options screen, as long as it works. Time needed depends on how complex it should be. (can start basic and add features over time)
Integration of PM over master server and buddy list: same as above.
Official ladder: Some players like competitive gameplay, so let them have it. Time needed: don't know.
Clan integration: Have registered clan and member names for security. Time needed: don't know.
PM over master server and buddy list: Beter communications, time needed: prolly less than features.

Note: I don't think that AC can survive on it's current engine. I don't know much about devs, but I've heard more about their behaviour than about their deving, and this is not a good thing in my book. I don't care if there are new devs or the same crew as before, as long as shit gets done.

[MPx]

1. AC 1.3 or AC 2? , Which version of AC do you prefer to see on the next release?

AC 1.3 sounds better, for me, AC2 sounds like ACr.

2. What new features would you like to be added on your chosen next release?

http://ac-akimbo.net/showthread.php?tid=1135
http://ac-akimbo.net/showthread.php?tid=1051
http://forum.cubers.net/thread-6880-post...#pid132722
and this:
http://forum.cubers.net/thread-7696-post...#pid151743
lol

3. According to the resources in hand (limited number of developers), how much time is enough to fulfill all those new features in the next release?
idk

[vonunov]

Needs

- Making the masterserver official maps only for pubs. Custom maps can be played on match servers.

Why?

Yes, thanks, I also look at the masterserver list daily.

Okay, so suppose we ban custom maps on the pubs. Now these people aren't going to just disappear, they're going to go to unlisted servers to play, and new players are going to come in and then leave and find another game because AC is "dead".

And are we going to throw the baby out with the bathwater? For every crapmap (which, might I remind you, you don't have to play), there's a good custom map that I love to play on pubs. Nobody ever seems to like customs in matches anyway. It's always ingress this and shine that.

So, the way it is currently, maybe a player comes in, finds crappy games on crappy maps, doesn't like it. Instead of looking through other servers to find the variety of the game he gives up. Do we really want him anyway?

I like the more moderate ideas here, or maybe something like just putting the official maps at the top of the list in whatever view, but I don't think that trying to push this so strongly will go over well.

[SKB]

1. AC 1.3 or AC 2? , Which version of AC do you prefer to see on the next release?

I would prefer the current master to be released as 1.3. Then, 'next' could be
released as 1.4.

2. What new features would you like to be added on your chosen next release?

Not all of them are features. But I would like to see:

• maps as virtual file systems (think .pak)
  
• no akimbo integration (see above)
  
• improved UX of the client (my mate was running around in SP)
  
• /reply to reply to the last PM (grenadier pointed out that easy reply is bound to 'N')
  
• most of map restrictions gone
  
• libre assets
  
• some light form of do-ocracy
  
• devs actually asking help by listing what needs to be done
  
• a visible roadmap
  
• client, server, and masterserver (optional) as separate packages
  
• raw mouse input
  
• flags, frags, score, everything should be counted per team, so autoteam won't destroy a game midway
  

And in the far future:

• gameplay mods on the MS
  
• server descriptors/tags, so mods could identify themselves
  
• tesseract or cube2 engine
  
• decentralised trust
  
• scriptable hud, like in quake
  
• /ready, /pause, /timeout
  
• removal of useless modes (mods could replace them)
  

• new, active (junior) devs
  
• visible measurements, like player retention or active player base
  
• more matches played on (good) custom maps
  
• a better website, which does well in "selling" ac
  
• a non-secretive dev corner, where people can follow development
  
• a more welcoming community
  

3. According to the resources in hand (limited number of developers), how much
time is enough to fulfill all those new features in the next release?

Let's not kid ourselves.

[Orynge]

1. AC 1.3
2.
- Everything SKB and Vanq said.
-Also, less modes and maps - some of these are really stupid, are never used and I don't know why we have them. If modifiers were used, we'd currently only have the CTF and deathmatch. Some of the maps are bad and there are too many imo.
- As said earlier, map restrictions haven't worked. It's turned people off AC and gotten rid of some crappy maps I used to like to play, and apparently the restrictions are so glitchy that people keep figuring out how to workaround them. And then the devs have to figure out what the glitch is. It would be just better getting rid of them, the limited devs have limited time.
- AND THE FREAKING AUTH SYSTEM. DEVS, YOU SAID YOU WERE WORKING ON IT SO WHERE IS IT. This could lead to the central ladder that a few people have been mentioning.
- /pause. As long as I've been in this community (5 years), competitive players have been asking for /pause, and for some reason we still don't have it. There has never een a clear reason as to why it hasn't happened either, the devs have sorta just ignored it.
3. At this rate? Never. At the moment, I'm seeing very little reason to even expect any sort of release of AC in the future.

[Felix-The-Ghost]

1. AC 1.3 or AC 2? , Which version of AC do you prefer to see on the next release?
AC 1.3 since it's a familiar formula for a game that I think works. AC2 sounds like a jump to another game I might not like (e.g. I prefer AC's speed over saur's)

2. What new features would you like to be added on your chosen next release?
Custom direction of mapmodel/pickup shadows
Custom rotation of mapmodels (in any direction)
Custom local text rendering methods that can be linked to scripts for dynamic HUD elements (e.g. "double kill!" text or whatever the client wants)

3. According to the resources in hand (limited number of developers), how much time is enough to fulfill all those new features in the next release?

I already authored the code for those features but I haven't gone out of my way enough to shove it in the devs faces :3 My guess is that I need to publish it on github before anyone bothers with it but then the rest is out of my hands.

[Flint]

1. AC 1.3 or AC 2? , Which version of AC do you prefer to see on the next release?

AC 1.3. As it has been said already in the thread, AC 2 sounds like another entity altogether.

2. What new features would you like to be added on your chosen next release?

A central ladder would be nice.
Maybe some sort of MMR based system for 1v1's, I've seen the idea thrown around a little bit on the forums and feel like it would add another dimension to competitive play. I'm not sure how it would be implemented though, but it would definitely be a welcome feature in my book.
I like what Undead proposed about switching sides at a halftime point during a match. This is a really solid idea and would perhaps address the issue of unfair sides on some maps.

3. According to the resources in hand (limited number of developers), how much time is enough to fulfill all those new features in the next release?

I have no idea as I know nothing of coding, but I know certain members of the community have offered their help before/would do so again, so that could be looked into? If manpower is an issue I'm sure steps could be taken to address it.

[Luc@s]

A release named AC 2 would be a huge one like AC would never know. The current AC should not even be named 1.2.

why ?

[Luc@s]

Most ideas given here are good, but as far as i know, nobody is willing to spend so much time working on AC right now.

[stef]

Luc@s, you probably misunderstand the purpose of this thread ;)
It is to tell devs, how they have to spend their time...
("RR, do this, you got 2 months or you're fired")

btw (on the "1.3 vs. 2" topic): AC will move to the cube2-engine, as soon as the current engine stops working. Also: that will be the end of AC, because the cube2-engine will kill everything that is "AC". If you don't believe that: name /one/ good ctf map in sauer...

I think, it is quite interesting, how this thread manages to completely ignore actual current problems of AC. Instead, completely irrelevant nonsense is discussed (version numbers), and atop of that, the usual "$othergame is much better, AC should be more like $othergame"...

Ok, here's something to discuss: I'd like to completely remove (builtin automatic) map restrictions - because they don't work properly, and they seem to suggest, that any map that passes them is a "good map". Instead, I'd like to implement tools to manage maps on the masterserver list manually, for example with central black- and whitelists for maps. Discuss.

[Nightmare]

Ok, here's something to discuss: I'd like to completely remove (builtin automatic) map restrictions - because they don't work properly, and they seem to suggest, that any map that passes them is a "good map". Instead, I'd like to implement tools to manage maps on the masterserver list manually, for example with central black- and whitelists for maps. Discuss.

You're the only dev, do it.

[Marti]

Yespls i wanna play ezjemvill again <3

[stef]

Maybe I should clarify that: removing automated map restrictions and instead managing maps manually can remove crap maps from the masterserver list altogether, since manual management will leave no loopholes for stuff like camper. This would be a huge change.

On the other hand, it is my fault, that crappy maps are played that much anyway... (I would link to posts on the old forum for this, but...)

[Undead]

btw (on the "1.3 vs. 2" topic): AC will move to the cube2-engine, as soon as the current engine stops working. Also: that will be the end of AC, because the cube2-engine will kill everything that is "AC". If you don't believe that: name /one/ good ctf map in sauer...

you can change engines (using sauer, tesseract, source, doesn't matter) and still keep the core gameplay of AC, it just needs to be implemented correctly. the core gameplay of cube was kept when sauer was created out of cube.

I think, it is quite interesting, how this thread manages to completely ignore actual current problems of AC. Instead, completely irrelevant nonsense is discussed (version numbers), and atop of that, the usual "$othergame is much better, AC should be more like $othergame"...

believe it or not, there are things that can be taken from other games and applied to AC to make it better. some of these ideas are more time consuming than others.

i think you have trouble envisioning an AC different from what it is today while maintaining its core gameplay. i also believe you have different goals for AC than many other people would like you to have. perhaps you're trying to "maintain" AC rather than grow it? correct me if i'm wrong.

Ok, here's something to discuss: I'd like to completely remove (builtin automatic) map restrictions - because they don't work properly, and they seem to suggest, that any map that passes them is a "good map". Instead, I'd like to implement tools to manage maps on the masterserver list manually, for example with central black- and whitelists for maps. Discuss.

i dislike the idea of the developers being able to blacklist maps that they don't like.