Assault cube mod by GsF

[Roflcopter]

jamz answer me:
Can I fix the drop shots issue without become a cheater?

IMO, yes, although I don't think everyone will agree with me on this.
Dropped shots are a bug; this has been acknowledged. Further to that, the information is available on these forums as to how to minimise them, and, I believe, a default client with vsync on, will suffer almost no dropped shots. Could someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this.

I believe the method to virtually eliminate unhits is simply to keep your FPS a stable multiple of 25. This involves two things: a modest graphics card and setting something like /maxfps 150. So yes, it's possible to eliminate unhits completely with modest hardware and the right setting.

Does this mean I can create a version of the ACWC client with the unhit fix and provide it publicly?

[Vanquish]

I had almost 70% dropped shots with vsync on. When I turned it off I got about 14%. When I maxed my fps, I got 0%.

I tested this with AR, perhaps SMG values are different. I believe you can still test this command on ac.fd.tc servers to observe how many hits you drop with different fps values.


EDIT: Also what Larry said.

[jamz]

I had almost 70% dropped shots with vsync on....

If this is true, then I was wrong. In which case I can't advocate a hitreg fixed client.
My main concern is always the level playing field between novices and experienced players with regard to the client (ie., ignoring hardware, config tweaks or actual skill). If the default client has many dropped shots with vsync on then, no, a hitreg fixed client is not OK. Please remember though, this is only my opinion. I don't want anyone to think I'm plucking rules out of thin air. If someone creates a fixed client and plays with it, you can all decide if you think this is fair or not.

[Vanquish]

I've seen others play with vsync on and get less drops, however if I recall correctly the number I had was 67.4%. I'll test that again tomorrow though.

I can remember shooting an entire AR clip at yopa point blank while he was standing still on desert DM and him not taking a single bullet of damage (this was before I knew what vsync was and how to turn it off, thanks titi who told me!).

Unhits really aren't hard to fix, my GPU is ridiculously low-end but I still manage a stable 125 fps on most maps. People with newer graphics cards can even manage a stable 500 and in some cases even 1000, meaning they get virtually no unhits (or none at all).

So I think a special client isn't necessary, or unfair, as you can fix your unhits just by using in-game settings with much less time and effort. I guess that won't stop people from taking extra measures and making a hitfixed client though.

[Cho]

vsync = bad. It also tested and got about 64% drops with it on

[fundog]

A fixed client is a MUST (provided officially by the developers) ASAP

why ? :

1. People which download the game, installing it, and playing it, will have different hitdrop even with identically (original given) settings, caused of different grafic acceleration performance, so genuinly there is an unfair disadvantage/advanatge between the players

2. Because some people are knowing about it, and others not, some players have 0 hitdrop (playing as supposed) and others have hitdrop = unfair

3. because no one can do a setting which fits to the hitdrop from the opponent, 0 hitdrop is the only solution to have a fair environment of gaming

i want make you examples :

1. No one can calibrate his hitrop to the opponent, like comparing hitdrop in front of matches, and make settings that i also have 36,4 percent hitdrop like my opponent

2. hitdrops are caused on two stages :

as first : the client can drop hits
as second : the server can drop hits

BOTH needs to be fixed, to have a fair environment

3. you as player can only affect your client, and also only if you know about, and you did read in this forum how to fix it (same for server owners)

What means hitdrop by server or client ?

1. You kill people different than your opponent does

2. Depending on the situation, and which mapmodels in your view are, you will loose hitting bullets, or not

3. Even you fixed your client, and you don't play on a fixed server, it can lead to situations in the gameplay, where you loose because the server did drop in the moment you needed your bullet which did hit, but it was registred as emtpy shoot into the air

conclusion :

This release should never have been published under this conditions

if you did read the License terms i posted, you are allowed to fix BUGS, and hitdrop IS a bug

Like vanquish said, you can fix it without a client change, yes, that's true, and here exactly it already starts with unfair gameplay ( you don't need a fixed client to have 0 hitdrops, just the knowledge about it), only if you KNOW about, and if you did read this forum and searched explicite for this error. That's not a solution, i still find players, every day, which i pick to our server to fix the hitdrop individually

i played with v-sync ON, and 60 fps, = 36,4 percent hitdrop, and i played like this in over 500 matches, until this error came public

and now i have to say, that it is really a SHAME, that developers are accusing fixed players, playing on fixed servers (of course they had to fix at their own) as unfair players.

I will judge it : You Developers caused this error, and you still did not provide a fixed version for all of it, even there are already solutions provided from people in the community

Don't come to the Community Forum and tell the people they can judge this people, because you produced an unfair error. That's a thing i will not accept this way ...

For all other i can only say, go to "/connect ac.fd.tc " and type "!unhits" to see your hitdrops, feel free to add me on skype "fundog.ch" and ask me to fix it.

[Vanquish]

I'll test that again tomorrow though.

Spoiler

Vsync on, fps locked to 60 - default settings for my PC.

Spoiler

/maxfps 200 (this comes as default on my laptop, strangely):

Spoiler

/maxfps 1000 (as stated previously I have a low-end GPU, other people will have different values for this).

Spoiler

/maxfps 125

Spoiler

So the default client gave me 75% hitdrops, meaning I wouldn't hit three out of every four bullets I should be hitting? I can't help but wonder how many other people playing AC are in this position - I'm glad this is fixed for the next version, but I think an official release of a hitfixed client can't come soon enough if there are many people who drop this amount of bullets - it makes the game completely unplayable.


tl;dr: use /maxfps 125

[Roflcopter]

I had almost 70% dropped shots with vsync on....

If this is true, then I was wrong. In which case I can't advocate a hitreg fixed client.
My main concern is always the level playing field between novices and experienced players with regard to the client (ie., ignoring hardware, config tweaks or actual skill). If the default client has many dropped shots with vsync on then, no, a hitreg fixed client is not OK. Please remember though, this is only my opinion. I don't want anyone to think I'm plucking rules out of thin air. If someone creates a fixed client and plays with it, you can all decide if you think this is fair or not.

I find this opinion at least very odd, because there's already a way for anyone who desires to achieves no unhits. The only people that can't do it currently are those with a very weak graphics card or possibly some other issue. Surely it's better if everyone has access to a fix?

hitdrops are caused on two stages :
as first : the client can drop hits

I'm not aware of any known bug client-side that causes unhits but I've suspected it for a while. Simply because when servers lag very severely I am certain I am hitting but the server doesn't register it. The server code is very simple and I can't see how it can drop anything. However I wonder if the client's interpolation code moves players positions incorrectly which is most exhibited with lag. It frankly seems unlikely but I trust my eyes.

[Link]

inb4 put this in changelog so author could fix

[Jpablon]

inb4 put this in changelog so author could fix

I will not fix it ;). This should be fixed on an official release.
I know that you can remove your unhits tweaking yours fps, but my computer is a crap.
I got less than 50 fps on some maps :(

I'm not aware of any known bug client-side that causes unhits but I've suspected it for a while.

The unhits are caused by the shot cadence lower than the allowed cadence (120 for AR), could be easily fixed on the client side.
The servers drops are caused by dropped packets, It's not a bug is a feature of udp protocol.

However I wonder if the client's interpolation code moves players positions incorrectly which is most exhibited with lag.

lol. Also I've noticed, I'm not sure of the cause, but only happen when an opponent has a low ping, this will request more investigation.

[jamz]

...it is really a SHAME, that developers are accusing fixed players... as unfair players.

I won't deny that it's a shame, but that doesn't change anything. I believe it's unfair to modify your client binary if it gives you an advantage over someone who does not have this modification. This is true regardless of who's to blame for the bug, or who's to blame for not fixing it.

Don't come to the Community Forum and tell the people they can judge this people, because you produced an unfair error. That's a thing i will not accept this way ...

What you will or won't accept matters not to me. I will say what I like, when I like, on these community forums, because I've earned that right as a member of this community for nearly 4 years. Everyone knows that I'm no coder, and that this bug is none of my doing, and I stated quite clearly in my post that it was my opinion, and, therefore, not the opinion of the AC development team.
Is there honestly a single 'pro' match player here who genuinely gives a shit what I think about fairness anyway?

Surely it's better if everyone has access to a fix?

It is, yes, but you, or Jpablon, or Fundog posting a fix on the forums doesn't serve everyone. The only fair way to fix it (before the next proper release) is to produce a patch release which is made available through the website. I guess this should have been done months ago, but you know how quickly the dev team moves.

[Roflcopter]

The unhits are caused by the shot cadence lower than the allowed cadence (120 for AR), could be easily fixed on the client side.
The servers drops are caused by dropped packets, It's not a bug is a feature of udp protocol.

That's the server-side issue that's been found. Data's sent over ENET which I thought made certain bullets would arrive.

It is, yes, but you, or Jpablon, or Fundog posting a fix on the forums doesn't serve everyone. The only fair way to fix it (before the next proper release) is to produce a patch release which is made available through the website. I guess this should have been done months ago, but you know how quickly the dev team moves.

How about I give you the diff for a fixed client and you release it as 1106? I can also fix a few other bugs, like in the ACWC client, too.

[Ronald_Reagan]

That's the server-side issue that's been found. Data's sent over ENET which I thought made certain bullets would arrive.

Yes:

The primary feature it provides is optional reliable, in-order delivery of packets.

and

ENet evolved specifically as a UDP networking layer for the multiplayer first person shooter Cube.

Cube necessitated low latency communcation with data sent out very frequently, so TCP was an unsuitable choice due to its high latency and stream orientation. UDP, however, lacks many sometimes necessary features from TCP such as reliability, sequencing, unrestricted packet sizes, and connection management. So UDP by itself was not suitable as a network protocol either. No suitable freely available networking libraries existed at the time of ENet's creation to fill this niche.

UDP and TCP could have been used together in Cube to benefit somewhat from both of their features, however, the resulting combinations of protocols still leaves much to be desired. TCP lacks multiple streams of communication without resorting to opening many sockets and complicates delineation of packets due to its buffering behavior. UDP lacks sequencing, connection management, management of bandwidth resources, and imposes limitations on the size of packets. A significant investment is required to integrate these two protocols, and the end result is worse off in features and performance than the uniform protocol presented by ENet.

ENet thus attempts to address these issues and provide a single, uniform protocol layered over UDP to the developer with the best features of UDP and TCP as well as some useful features neither provide, with a much cleaner integration than any resulting from a mixture of UDP and TCP.

[fundog]

...it is really a SHAME, that developers are accusing fixed players... as unfair players.

I won't deny that it's a shame, but that doesn't change anything. I believe it's unfair to modify your client binary if it gives you an advantage over someone who does not have this modification. This is true regardless of who's to blame for the bug, or who's to blame for not fixing it.

As i said in my post befor, i can't join a public server or match, and ask everyone which hitdrops he has, and set mine to the same to make it fair, additionally everyone has a different one (originally). So, also you must understand that only NO hitdrops can be the solution.

Don't come to the Community Forum and tell the people they can judge this people, because you produced an unfair error. That's a thing i will not accept this way ...

What you will or won't accept matters not to me. I will say what I like, when I like, on these community forums, because I've earned that right as a member of this community for nearly 4 years. Everyone knows that I'm no coder, and that this bug is none of my doing, and I stated quite clearly in my post that it was my opinion, and, therefore, not the opinion of the AC development team.
Is there honestly a single 'pro' match player here who genuinely gives a shit what I think about fairness anyway?.

I care Jamz, i asked you in all actions i do, for your oppinion, and it's really disappointing that you let show it now in the light i would not care.

Actually it was you, which told me, that you have no interest in that things, if you remember. (unless banning people for obvious cheating in public)

I am playing this game since his first days and i know people from ac you would not imagine i know (personally, real life). If it's about that ... but i never did brag about, because that's not justifying any oppinion

You clearly mix up two different things :

The people with 0 hitdrop play the game as what it is supposed to play, like it is in EVERY game

The developers produced the disadvantage (once more) for the most players

That's not unfair from the players which want have a fair gaming environment. I feel sorry for the players which join newly the game, because they are basically simply on a lost position (standard v-sync on)

There are players with basically DIFFERENT disadvantages by only downloading and installing the game, that's what must be focused !

Surely it's better if everyone has access to a fix?

It is, yes, but you, or Jpablon, or Fundog posting a fix on the forums doesn't serve everyone. The only fair way to fix it (before the next proper release) is to produce a patch release which is made available through the website. I guess this should have been done months ago, but you know how quickly the dev team moves.

FIRST phrase of my post befor again :

A fixed client is a MUST (provided officially by the developers) ASAP

There are enough ambitioned community members which have skill to fix it, give them competences to do it, or, talk first to your developer team befor you give answers like, it's unfair that some people have 0 hitdrops (*cough* judge yourself this cheaters *cough*) ... it's unfair to have the disadvantage of hitdrops, not the opposite !

ADDED :

Obviously some people in the community which are outside of the developer team, have the solution.

It's btw the sense of the GNU Open Source License terms, that people have access to the source code and are allowed to research and fix bugs. Why not appreciating a solution as developer from people which follow this rules and share their work.

If you want not have that, you have the option to close the source and keep the source for the developers only, but i think we all know that this game is living from the community, clans, and ambitioned players and not from Developers with airs and graces.

So let's collect the facts :

There is a problem > there is a solution for the problem

Who from the developers is competently facing responsibility and going now to organize a cooperation group and distributing an Update ?

[Link]

btw, we can still use the script right? I need a copy. ;_;

[TheNihilanth]

Hello all, just my humble opinion as one that have just joined into this forum:

I believe that shooting thru pickups is *cheating* if there exists at least one player that does not use this modification. Also this is *not* a bug, it is a *premeditated* source code modification to gain (even if it is minuscule) advatage over the other players. Distributing it to *pretend* all the people who play this game to adopt this mod does not make it fair and legit simply because the original game was not conceived that way *AFAIK*, it is not an original feature, maybe the developers must mark a clear line of what and what not can be modified and hope/pray they follow this rules since (as I've skimmed the source code, and this source code is the reason I've got into this game/forums) all the rendering (among other things)is done on the client.

I feel sorry for the players which join newly the game, because they are basically simply on a lost position (standard v-sync on)

I wouldn't consider this cheating but a bug which causes a huge disadvantage, this bug does not depends on ping, ability, agility or skill, so it cannot be compensated with that, but with a source code modification.
If there is already the solution, distribute it officially so everyone can play at (in theory) the same conditions as soon as anyone install this game, please.

Thanks, I hope to support you a little bit by simply playing this game.

[fundog]

I believe that shooting thru pickups is *cheating* if there exists at least one player that does not use this modification.

i already explained that, (read license terms i posted earlier), it's changing the gameplay, taking an unfair advantage = cheating

I wouldn't consider this cheating but a bug which causes a huge disadvantage

"You" simply can't call people cheaters, which are not affected by this bug. They don't take an unfair advantage. The game is for some players not how it is supposed to be, and gives them an unfair disadvantage.

Or all players with 0 hitdrops must be banned !

And then, the player with 30 percent hitdrop must be banned too, because his oppenent had 50 percent hitdrop ...

this bug does not depends on ping, ability, agility or skill, so it cannot be compensated with that, but with a source code modification.

As example, it starts on setting your FPS (v-sync OFF > maxfps) which can make a difference up to 50 percent hitdrop or more, to others which use standard settings.

That doesn't need any change on the source. It's a setting already available in the client, like mousespeed, just with the most possible horrible consequences if the setting is wrong.

So it's similar to change mouse speed. Just with a big BUG behind if done wrong, (and in that case, most worse way to play, not changing the original setting > vsync ON)

Fixed servers can be excluded too, because they don't make differences between the players. They are actually the only fair servers existing. They distribute server sided to ALL player the same, no unhits.

If there is already the solution, distribute it officially so everyone can play at (in theory) the same conditions as soon as anyone install this game, please.

Yes, any news about that PLEASE ?

additionally we miss 64 bit clients, with actual redistributions for all operating systems, this i can suggest you need to compile yourself for your operating system individually.

[TheNihilanth]

i already explained that, (read license terms i posted earlier), it's changing the gameplay, taking an unfair advantage = cheating

Perhaps you wanted to say "i expresed that opinion already...?"

*I deleted this paragraph as I felt it wasn't that important.*

"You" simply can't call people cheaters, which are not affected by this bug. They don't take an unfair advantage. The game is for some players not how it is supposed to be, and gives them an unfair disadvantage.

I don't know if you are referring to me directly by "You" in a counteragument way or "You" as in "The other people besides you(TheNihilanth) and me(fundog) and posible more people, who in fact call cheaters to those who have the hitreg bug fixed" since I did not say they were.

Is that what you meant?

As example, it starts on setting your FPS (v-sync OFF > maxfps) which can make a difference up to 50 percent hitdrop or more, to others which use standard settings.

Quite Interesting, so you are saying that these missed shots are caused by the vertical sync on the client, and that by simply turning off this the hit registration will be solved?

I tought it required a source code modification on the server since it was droping packets due to the UDP.

Anyways, I concur with you on the main essential thing: "Please, make the updgrade, so everybody can play the game in equal conditions from the very momment someone installs the game. Thanks."


Edit: Please, Where is the server side code to fix this bug (if any)?

[fundog]

i already explained that, (read license terms i posted earlier), it's changing the gameplay, taking an unfair advantage = cheating

Perhaps you wanted to say "i expresed that opinion already...?"

It's not a personal oppinion, it's a license term, which answers the question, that was what i meant is explained by this, because i posted it befor

"You" simply can't call people cheaters, which are not affected by this bug. They don't take an unfair advantage. The game is for some players not how it is supposed to be, and gives them an unfair disadvantage.

I don't know if you are referring to me directly by "You" in a counteragument way or "You" as in "The other people besides you(TheNihilanth) and me(fundog) and posible more people, who in fact call cheaters to those who have the hitreg bug fixed" since I did not say they were.

Is that what you meant?

EDIT phrase : No one can call people cheaters or unfair players, which are not affected by this bug.

Quite Interesting, so you are saying that these missed shots are caused by the vertical sync on the client, and that by simply turning off this the hit registration will be solved?

(v-sync ON = 60 Hz monitor = 60 FPS) is causing the most hitdrops. If you turn it off, the problem is still not solved. It only allows you to set manually your FPS with the command "/maxfps".

Depending on the performance of your grafic card, you can set your fps to a STABLE number + reserves. As soon your FPS is not stable, hitdrop will occur. It's prooved that a number of FPS which can be divided by 25 is fixing it. 50, 75, 100, 125...200...1000

I tought it required a source code modification on the server since it was droping packets due to the UDP.

Edit: Please, Where is the server side code to fix this bug (if any)?

Server source changes for hitdrop fix

Anyways, I concur with you on the main essential thing: "Please, make the updgrade, so everybody can play the game in equal conditions from the very momment someone installs the game. Thanks."

Agree

The Developers get a gift, but they don't open the package

[Jpablon]

Also this is *not* a bug, it is a *premeditated* source code modification to gain (even if it is minuscule) advatage over the other players. Distributing it to *pretend* all the people who play this game to adopt this mod does not make it fair and legit simply because the original game was not ...

It's nice to see new people expressing his opinion. Really you believe that I released a mod knowing that had a cheat on it? Its was an accident.

Fixed servers can be excluded too, because they don't make differences between the players. They are actually the only fair servers existing. They distribute server sided to ALL player the same, no unhits.

Fixed server must be excluded, they are unfair, It not give to anyone a big advantage but still being an advantage if you know how to use it.
Think on this, what happen if you have more drops on a fixed server?
You will be shooting before the allowed time, right?
now, if you force more drops you can save some millis between bursts.

I repeat it's not a big advantage, but I consider a hitreg fixed server as a bad idea.

It's not a personal oppinion, it's a license term, which answers the question, that was what i meant is explained by this, because i posted it befor

It's not even a license term, is only a recommendation... I should have taken it in consideration.

[fundog]

Think on this, what happen if you have more drops on a fixed server?

On a fixed Server you dont have any difference to your oppenent, you join both the same server, and you both have the same environment from the server, the only difference is your client causing.

I repeat it's not a big advantage, but I consider a hitreg fixed server as a bad idea.

To play on a server which is not fixed, because he drops additionally a different amount of hits on players is a bad idea.

It's not even a license term, is only a recommendation... I should have taken it in consideration.

Just in case, i never questioned your good intention. But if you read the license terms (post 51 in this thread, copy of the source code license terms), you will notice it's not a recommendation, that you are not allowed to see and shoot through pickups and remove mapmodels. It's cheating in result.

[Jpablon]

Think on this, what happen if you have more drops on a fixed server?

On a fixed Server you dont have any difference to your oppenent, you join both the same server, and you both have the same environment from the server, the only difference is your client causing.

I repeat it's not a big advantage, but I consider a hitreg fixed server as a bad idea.

To play on a server which is not fixed, because he drops additionally a different amount of hits on players is a bad idea.

It's not even a license term, is only a recommendation... I should have taken it in consideration.

Just in case, i never questioned your good intention. But if you read the license terms (post 51 in this thread, copy of the source code license terms), you will notice it's not a recommendation, that you are not allowed to see and shoot through pickups and remove mapmodels. It's cheating in result.

I don't want discuss about this.
you're right i'm wrong. are you happy now?

[fundog]

If you did read my posts right, i basically appreciated your knowledge and your intention to make something for the game. And i guess many others think the same about some modifications of your client, and i am sure, the developers will think the same, aslong you want cooperate with them and their terms.

Fact is, i can show you screenshots where i am completly hidden behind a 50 kevlar, and two fences, which is kinda hard to kill me, while your client mod, gives a full free view to me, and also a full hitrange to me, unprotected by kevlar and all mapmodels between. Similar to see and shoot through walls...

You can see and shoot through things which i can't. How you can think it's not cheating ?

That's why the license terms got posted, to make it clear, because some people seemed insecure about this one single modification. (proove)

The solution for you is, you can fix that, and show the developer the client first (source and changes), befor you use or distribute it. Work in transparency with them, and you don't have problems.

[Jpablon]

The solution for you is, you can fix that...

done.
You can't shoot through pickups anymore ;)
I also remove the flyspeed on match mode.

http://forum.cubers.net/thread-5918-post...#pid110319

[Jesse]

thanks a lot, I really appreciate the work you do, and doubt that half the people that complain and call you a hacker could make a cool client like this one :)

[fundog]

thanks a lot, I really appreciate the work you do, and doubt that half the people that complain and call you a hacker could make a cool client like this one :)

It doesn't matter if they can do it or not. Some modifications wasn't "cool" and it's their feedback about it.

You can't shoot through pickups anymore ;)
I also remove the flyspeed on match mode.

Perfect. Thanks for the understanding and good talking on IRC. Looking forward, good job.

[Majestic]

Nice Job, I Like '-'

[Edward]

I personally have not changed the value of flyspeed mainly because I did not know what it was for. But yeah, I just noticed that I can shoot through picks up (lol).

Btw someone do and share an awesome work and I just see lame rage comments. Just say thank you dude, you made an awesome work and we are gonna help you to fix some issues we noticed. Some people are trying to develop and improve this game. We all know it should be your job but if you dont do it, at least let other people do it.

I made this mod public because some players shared it with everybody, it was a disadvantage for those that don't have it.

Ouch, is it because of me? I should not have share it without asking you before :( I am sorry. I did not think there would be problems.

[Jpablon]

Ouch, is it because of me?

nope.

[DES|Anderson]

OMG is this still raging on, the client has been shown to have shall we say undesireable features and in reality these "features" are cheats. It was not intentionally coded as a cheat and has been fixed so it cannot be used in that way. That should end this, however those posting so strongly in support of GSF should remember intentional or not the client (clever though it was) did allow cheating and players/clans have been banned for this in the past. So lets not stir this up into something it is not, a very nice mod has been found to contain an unintentional cheat, this has been fixed. If i was GSF I would be thanking those who pointed this out as if it had come out a different way it could easilly of resulted in bans.