Weapon Balance and Gameplay Discussion

[Gibstick]

There's no point in adding more guns if they're all the same. Make gun models yourself ^^

[CyberKlown28]

Nobody is calling for instant million guns, get that in your head :D
Carbine feels old and natural already.
Doesn't hurt to dream of more weapons in Assault Cube in the future <3
And these devs seem skilled enough to do so given enough time.
....unless people complain about perfectly balanced weapons and force the devs to rebalance the guns over and over forever

[mogthor]

There's no point in having the AR/SMG if they are all the same. We should just as well get rid of one of them than add more weapons. And no ones listed any major differences, like I have similarity's. Just sayin'

[#M|A#Wolf]

There's no point in having the AR/SMG if they are all the same. We should just as well get rid of one of them than add more weapons. And no ones listed any major differences, like I have similarity's. Just sayin'

The SMG and AR are not the same. Where the heck did you get that idea from?!
SMG: short-mid range, fast ROF, 7 shots to kill unarmored players, 15 damage, semi fast sprint, 30/90 ammo, 1650 ms reload time
AR: short-mid-long range, semi fast ROF, 5 shots to kill unarmored player, 24 damage, fast rifle spring/jump, 20/60 ammo, 2000ms reload time

Nobody is calling for instant million guns, get that in your head :D
Carbine feels old and natural already.
Doesn't hurt to dream of more weapons in Assault Cube in the future <3
And these devs seem skilled enough to do so given enough time.
....unless people complain about perfectly balanced weapons and force the devs to rebalance the guns over and over forever

It's not about how skilled the devs are. They are skilled to do as many weapons as they want, but they don't for the reason of leaving the game as basic as possible. Tell me what's harder, making 5 weapons balanced or making 10 weapons balanced.

[mogthor]

The SMG and AR are not the same. Where the heck did you get that idea from?!
SMG: short-mid range, fast ROF, 7 shots to kill unarmored players, 15 damage, semi fast sprint, 30/90 ammo, 1650 ms reload time
AR: short-mid-long range, semi fast ROF, 5 shots to kill unarmored player, 24 damage, fast rifle spring/jump, 20/60 ammo, 2000ms reload time

Boiled down, this means that they kill in the same time, both can rifle sprint, and have the same ammo for the rate of consumption! And the ranges are fake, you can use the SMG at mid-long range to. To me, there are no noticeable (in game, not stats, because numbers can lie) differences.

[#M|A#Wolf]

And the ranges are fake, you can use the SMG at mid-long range to.

Want to have a 1v1 in douze, me with AR and you with SMG?

[CyberKlown28]

I would like to spectate that game :D.
btw can the smg bullet not go long range? like does it stop and disappear?

as for weapon balance. just copy+paste the normal ar/smg/whatever(with a different appearance)
add some power, take away some rof, equal kill time.
shazam! 5,000,000 weapons all with the normal balance.
housewolf is a meanie e.e

[#M|A#Wolf]

My best guess would be that the bullets naturally lose aim because they lose power, which is why the bullet won't hit someone that is too far away (just like in real life).

[CyberKlown28]

kk. well hand me an mp5. stand 100 yards away(sounds good going by farthest away a normal AC map will have you battle...? AC douze corner to corner maybe)

:D *puts super anti-headshot mask over housewolf*
there you go assault cube rules.

[Ronald_Reagan]

I think how the weapons work is this:
There is no "range"
There is no "loss of power"
However, with everything else, the farther away you get, more a degree of angle effects you. (not good at explaining this) So if you only have one foot of possible hit areas at 10 ft, you may have 5 feet of possible hit areas at 50 feat (not sure if this would be a linear equation or not) therefore, it would be less effective at a greater range. This is why spread and recoil is a bigger deal then you might expect.

[KN!F3]

That's basic quadratics ^

But I don't know if it works in Assault cube like that. Do the bullets go at angles when you fire straight in the center?

[CyberKlown28]

well somebody go to ac douze and do the smg vs AR long range battle. :D
I'm curious about it too because I'm always scared to shoot long range with both guns.

[Ronald_Reagan]

Bullets are just rays I believe, which leads me to believe that the spread is just a changing angle from which the ray is created in relation to the aim.

[jAcKRoCk*]

Why someone says that SMG and AR are the same?? Gosh new people scare me :S, yet i think that what you guys need to see is that, adding a new weapon to the game changed de game completely from one version to another, just that one weapon make a lot of diference in the gameplay and we are still trying to make the weapons balanced, now imagine if we add another weapon? This tread will never end, because it will be a mess.

[V-Man]

@Ray_gun:
weapon.cpp, lines 729-731:

[SELECT ALL] Code:

#define RNDD (rnd(spread)-spread/2)*f
        vec r(RNDD, RNDD, RNDD);
        to.add(r);

Sounds right to me.

[Syntax]

Nobody is calling for instant million guns, get that in your head :D
Carbine feels old and natural already.
Doesn't hurt to dream of more weapons in Assault Cube in the future <3
And these devs seem skilled enough to do so given enough time.
....unless people complain about perfectly balanced weapons and force the devs to rebalance the guns over and over forever

You seem relatively new to AssaultCube. Most newcomers usually suggest adding more weapons, but it honestly won't happen--even the devs have stated that it would be heading in a different direction to add more weapons (carbine is an exception).

I've been playing AC for about three years now, and over the years, I've seen at least hundreds of posts suggesting more weapons.

There haven't been any new weapons added for years. The only one that has been added is the carbine, and that was just added since 1.1.

I would like to spectate that game :D.
btw can the smg bullet not go long range? like does it stop and disappear?

as for weapon balance. just copy+paste the normal ar/smg/whatever(with a different appearance)
add some power, take away some rof, equal kill time.
shazam! 5,000,000 weapons all with the normal balance.
housewolf is a meanie e.e

We don't want 5,000,000 weapons. AssaultCube is meant to be simple, easy, and fast. Having more weapons creates too much complexity. The thing I love most about AssaultCube is the total minimalistic approach to weapons--I don't need to spend a lot of time choosing the right one. It's either this one or this one.

And |BC|Wolf isn't "mean". People are just tired of explaining time after time to newer players that if there isn't a necessity for more weapons, there shouldn't be more weapons.

Why someone says that SMG and AR are the same?? Gosh new people scare me :S, yet i think that what you guys need to see is that, adding a new weapon to the game changed de game completely from one version to another, just that one weapon make a lot of diference in the gameplay and we are still trying to make the weapons balanced, now imagine if we add another weapon? This tread will never end, because it will be a mess.

Exactly. There's already been enough controversy over the changes between 1.0 and 1.1 because of the 'weapon balances'. If anything, the devs should find a permanent solution/balance and STOP touching it.

If we've learned anything from 0.93 to 1.0, and 1.0 to 1.1, it's that changing weapon balances only divide the community. The dissent from 0.93 to 1.0 was only a small minority, because the changes weren't that drastic. From 1.0 to 1.1, a new weapon was added, grenades were drastically changed, and all the other weapons went through some 'tweaking'.

Was a problem "solved"? Well, now there's not that much nade spam--if it was a problem in the first place. But we also have a newer problem--a crazy shotgun. I do believe in the current SVN it's been/being addressed, but it would be very, very, very nice if we could find a balance that is nearly perfect, and just leave it alone.

[mogthor]

For science, not competition, would I gladly 1v1 you, Wolf. Any time but Saturday this week would be fine. I am in time zone UTC -6 hours FYI. We will go through some testing together, and post the results here for every one to see.

[CyberKlown28]

^sounds good mogthor :D
I'd like to see the limits of these guns.

@ Satan's wall of text, and the much kinder jackrock.
I understand the carbine shook things up a little, but thats another "class" of weapon.
Adding a couple more guns for each class(AR/smg/shotgun/etc) with small balanced changes like +power + recoil +spread -fire rate, etc.

Having 15 primary guns instead of 5 won't kill simplicity ._.'
Conservatism = George bush = you know what happens
More guns = change we can believe in
:D

[Gibstick]

Having 15 guns that have the same role (15 assault rifles) will :D
Having 2 guns that have the same role will :D

[CyberKlown28]

lies!!!! :D
it'd take a few games to try them all out, and choose by preference.

gameplay would be the same .-.

or if you will die with more than 1 AR/smg/etc.
then add more "role" guns and have some fun with those <3

Assault Cube IS missing a light machinegun style weapon. 50-100 rounds per clip(drum)
fast rate of fire!
and for balancing purposes, super high recoil ,spread, and low power.
:D

---

or mines that kill when someone steps on them?

btw when you get the akimbo pistols. why do they get a full auto effect, holding down the left mouse button...?

[mogthor]

Having 2 guns that have the same role will :D

Funny, to think that we already have this?

btw when you get the akimbo pistols. why do they get a full auto effect, holding down the left mouse button...?

For the pure awesomeness of being able to kill some one in less that 2 seconds.... >:D (after finding that out, akimbo is now my favorite weapon...insta-kill FTW!!!)

[CyberKlown28]

<3 mogthor

[JMM]

btw when you get the akimbo pistols. why do they get a full auto effect, holding down the left mouse button...?

Because otherwise it wouldn't be a real powerup but simply a pistol with twice the ammo. There's no way you can click fast enough to take full advantage of its fire rate, it's just not humanely possible.

[Syntax]

CyberKlown28, the suggestion of adding new weapon has already been addressed again and again by the developers. There is no need for a light machine gun with 100 ammo.

[CyberKlown28]

@ akimbo
Well I figured bullets would come out of each gun per click, hence kill twice as fast as one pistol.
full auto doesn't make sense at all but I like it :D

[mogthor]

* Mogthor is patiantly waiting for |BC|Wolf

[Gibstick]

I'll fill in: play CoD or counterstrike or Combat Arms

[eftertanke]

Mines!? Lolwtfno.

[mogthor]

I'll fill in: play CoD or counterstrike or Combat Arms

Was this directed at me? Because I think all those games are dumb (jking), AVA is the way to go! Staff Sargent 3 with MP7A1 FTW! /endadvertisement

[YourSister]

mmm i appreciated the changes in the balance of weapons from 1.0 to 1.1, cause now we use 3 weapons (AR, SMG, Sniper) instead of 2 (SMG, Sniper). now is the time to give more power to shotty and carabine :D