[split] Map discussion

[cOGhost]

No.

[Viper]

Yes.

[Luc@s]

Yes.

[cOGhost]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbJNkH-pDd8

Watch from 1min for my reponse

[jamz]

ac_arabian? Yes it's a good pub map, like all of jiba's maps. If I was on the development team, I'd be pushing for the inclusion of ac_avenue, ac_base, ac_hq, ac_venganza and ac_victorian (yes, I know you had fingers in this one Cleaner). Pubs need maps where you can still get the flags out at 6+ players per side.

[Cemer]

ac_riverdry

[Syntax]

iirc RandumKiwi is the man who decides what goes in and what doesn't.

I tried talking to him before about making some very, very, high quality maps official. He just rambled about how he twisted his ankle for an hour.

[VenteX]

(barely ontopic, the only reason it's still related is because it's about an official map; sue me :P)

It's starting to bother me how much better ac_urban looks with black fog and the "at sea" skymap... and no other changes whatsoever, not even lighting...

[Cemer]

O o

Looks urban

// Mod edit: no need to quote post above you. we know its that post you are replying to.

[Nightmare]

new skymaps for officials gogogo.

[Syntax]

Urban with that skymap makes it twice as sexy. Kinda like power with that...power skymap.

[Viper]

Well said. I agree!

[CicloN]

What the hell , why talking about removing any map?

@RoflCoper Every map is biased IMO. There are different ways of playing a side.But ones just easier than others.

@Xenon Scaffold is a really good map for TDM/DM/TOSOK/OSOK and even HTF.

@Ventex Urban is great. But i agree , avenue is awesome but too big.

@Aight I don't like Stellar either , it should have a better layout :(

@Nightmare and @Syntax Agreed U_U

[Orynge]

Apache?

[Frogulis]

@Xenon Scaffold is a really good map for TDM/DM/TOSOK/OSOK and even HTF.

I was about to make some sarcastic comment about how "good" scaffold is for HTF (no flag bases) but then I opened AC and was reminded that flag bases weren't required for HTF, which made me want to play HTF on scaffold.
So err...I agree with everything you said :D

[CicloN]

Lol :D You can play desert on HTF too :D

[Roflcopter]

What the hell , why talking about removing any map?

@RoflCoper Every map is biased IMO. There are different ways of playing a side.But ones just easier than others.

Because more can be less. Having maps that are severely biased (such as ac_aqueous) actually detracts from the game somewhat. In clan matches it allows teams an easy win even when they are significantly weaker.

Unless maps are to be virtually symmetrical there will always been some bias, but when certain maps are so biased as to not be fun or fair I don't see a good reason for their inclusion. (With ac_aqueous it is very difficult to push through the tunnels into CLA base, and even if you do kill a defending CLA player will often respawn before you can escape with their flag.)

Admittedly we could try to reach a consensus not to play certain maps in clan matches but with no major leagues to back such ideas it wouldn't catch on. I don't think biased maps are particularly fun for pubs either.

The most severely biased are probably ac_aqueous, ac_snow and ac_arid. ac_arid is a really good duel map though, so I just think it should be restricted to non-flag modes.

[Cleaner]

One simple thing to do (like in many sports games) at half time swap sides.

[Roflcopter]

One simple thing to do (like in many sports games) at half time swap sides.

• It would be hard to keep track of which team was winning in the second round if total flags and frags are tied
  
• Again, it's unlikely to gain traction
  
• It would make matches 60 or 90 minutes long instead of 30 or 45 minutes
  
• I don't think it would be fun replaying every map
  

Are there any compelling reasons to actually keep very biased maps though? AC has so many nice maps that are balanced.

[Mr.OpTic]

I've had this idea of a two half games for a while now. It would solve a lot of problems, especially within the 'competitive' scene of AC.

It would make matches 60 or 90 minutes long instead of 30 or 45 minutes

I dont see why that would be necessary. You could just halve the normal 15 minute limit, so it would be say, two sets of 7 minutes per game, one playing as RVSF, the other, CLA.

I have no idea as to how this would be implemented though. Possibly a count down to "half time", then a clearly noticable change in switching sides, to stop the confusion of many TK's.

[jamz]

Are there any compelling reasons to actually keep very biased maps though?

Yes, but I suspect your competitiveness blinds you to them.
1. They're not so biased when you fill (8-14 players) them with a mixture of skill levels. Tactics go out the window when you can't rely on your pub teammates to know which end of a gun is the business end.
2. They showcase someone's dream, planning, design and hard work. AC isn't just about fragging, never mind winning.

I really feel clans need to work out some better way to decide which maps are OK for matches and which aren't, even if it means putting something in the game's documentation to that effect.

As someone who has a loooong list of maps he'd love to see included, if only to get them played regularly on servers again, I can't condone removing maps just because the competitive crowd consider them to have tunnels or pickups in the 'wrong' place and/or because there are not-so-skilled clans who think it's fair to vote for them in the first place.

Mr.Optic, I'm sure I discussed with one or more devs the possibility of including the game length in a map/mode vote, if only for match mode, for someone not too far from this post...
I can't remember what the outcome was, but will bring it up again.

[Ronald_Reagan]

iirc it got implemented.

[Syntax]

If a map is fair enough, people will play it in inters. That's it.

I'm totally fine playing an "unfair" map in a pub. I don't think winning really matters in a pub. It's just for fun.

And really, there aren't any maps that should be removed. If a map is played, then well, it's played.

[Nightmare]

* Nightmare spawns with a kevlar infront of him that just happens to be the only kevlar on the map.

Lag-Road that makes the dev's map requisites really hypocritical Rattrap <3

Maps shouldn't get taken out. :p

[Bukz]

I don't think maps will ever be taken out. Clans should take more of an initiative to agree on a certain rule set before beginning matches. If this includes excluded official maps that would be fine.

There are official maps that were built specifically for public play. Not to mention that symmetrical layouts can get boring over time. I actually like Cleaner's idea of having a "half-time" where teams are swapped. It would make this a moot discussion.

[ExodusS]

Remove helmet when /mastermode 2
Public maprot and Match maprot must be released.

[flowtron]

Uhmm. The standing procedure for FPS - AFAIK - is still to swap sides after one match. For a definite result you then need either two direct wins, or a deciding third match. What the sides will be on the final match .. well, that's a matter for "the rules".
But sure, there could be an automation for the switching of teams (CLA to RVSF and vice-versa) upon a completed match if the proper switches (probably read as "votes") were made beforehand - like "match mode"; which hasn't been discussed, though worked-upon, much in the last few months TBH.

[Roflcopter]

...

I would love to see this with 10 minutes a side, and the score kept between rounds. I say this as the guy who always tells his teammates, "no, it's not biased enough... we should pick TOSOK snow".

[Orynge]

BTW, the SVN maps should be updated so that the map message shows the current map author's clan tag, or just getting rid of clan tags altogether.

[Nightmare]

BTW, the SVN maps should be updated so that the map message shows the current map author's clan tag, or just getting rid of clan tags altogether.

IKR <3