Upcoming Release Balance Discussion (SVN)

[#M|A#Wolf]

Xenon: Frags aren't so far apart, you can tell Undead did the killing (only 2 frags under MyS) keeping them occupied while you got flags. And yeah just by looking at the other screenshots just proves my point. We should go back to game balance discussion, sorry about that.

[Roflcopter]

Yeah i agree head shots should only be worth 1 frag, they are so simple and easy i often find myself getting around 20 head shots a game. While we are at it the AR should do 50 damage a shot(so that camping is eradicated)

Sarcasm.

Depot was easily the most played map in my experience with 1.04 and yes people used nades more often, but it was still just as easy if you were smart to flag,

Not clear what you're saying, seems to be that nade spamming wasn't an issue. If so I disagree but can't see the relevance to sniper headshot points.

it's important to realize that there will never be an 100% approval rating on the games balance,

True but irrelevant.

but simply saying snipers slow down the pace of the game is ridiculous, why? it's a fucking sniper(support weapon), do you expect them to charge in first and take on a team full of AR's?

They either do slow down the game or they don't. You first say it's ridiculous to say they slow down the game but your second sentence seems to suggest they do indeed slow the game down.

ask yourself this, if a 3v3 was played where one team was only using sniper the other team only using AR who would win?

As you said above yourself the sniper is a support weapon so judging its results in a non-intended role would be irrelevant.

stop trying to influence the balance of the game so it suits your play style better.

I'm not and you shouldn't attribute malice. I've regularly supported things that would make winning harder for me (for example scoring based solely on flags, stronger shotgun and carbine, etc...).

Let me recap my arguments, perhaps you'll provide me with reasoning why I'm wrong.

Balance isn't about how hard it is to headshot. So what if it's hard to 360 headshot, it doesn't mean you should automatically win the game. I gave a very reasoned argument to why headshots doing 2 frags is bad.

The only maps where headshots doing 2 frags will matter much are maps that essentially come down to TDM. Here headshots being worth 2 points adds an additional risk to attacking over just camping.

[Boomhauer]

but simply saying snipers slow down the pace of the game is ridiculous, why? it's a fucking sniper(support weapon), do you expect them to charge in first and take on a team full of AR's?

In real life the Sniper IS a support weapon. But this isn't real life. And yes, I do expect them to charge in and take on a team full of AR's. Someone who is great with a sniper can take out multiple targets in a confined area in an incredibly small amount of time, with a headshot or two and smart backup weapon switches along with clever use of cover and movement. Meeeehhhhh :( I just don't understand the points some people try to make. I think some people just enjoy being argumentative.

AND:

Same for headshots, which I think should be reduced to 1 frag.

what.

^this

AND:

slash = 2 frags
headshot = 2 frags
grenade = 1 frag

maybe some sort of system whereby a "combo kill" accounts for two frags. If you play with /hudextras 2 as I do, it will say "combo" on the hud each time you partially damage someone with a nade and then finish them off with whatever weapon you were using, as an example. What is the point in this? It just counts as a regular frag, so imo combo kills could account for two frags, either that or take out the "combo kill" feature as really there seems to be no point in having it.

The combo thing is useless IMHO. I think that the reward for using a combo should be to get the kill, nothing more. Yes, no point in having it sounds about right. If you want to be rewarded further for clever weapon combos (i.e 2 points) ... USE YOUR FREAKIN' KNIFE!!!! :P :P

[Vermi]

In real life the Sniper IS a support weapon. But this isn't real life. And yes, I do expect them to charge in and take on a team full of AR's. Someone who is great with a sniper can take out multiple targets in a confined area in an incredibly small amount of time, with a headshot or two and smart backup weapon switches along with clever use of cover and movement. Meeeehhhhh :( I just don't understand the points some people try to make. I think some people just enjoy being argumentative.

Sniper is underplayed in 1.1 because the AR is so OP, we all know that, just try and play sniper in ctf on a map like gothic or elevation against a decent team. AR has the ability to rifle sprint which makes flagging with the sniper even harder, you are talking about public play where it is possible to play aggressive sniper so I'm not going to continue dissecting your argument, but do you really think game balance should depend on how easy it is to kill noobs?

[Edward]

The best headshoter on the BoB ladder (most HS), who is one of my friend, have some difficulties to play clan-matches against some mid- AR players even with the 2 frag bonus.

More over, with the sniper you can only do a single kill (2 frags) but during "almost" the same time, an SMG or an AR can do a triple kill (3 frags).
A sniper do not frag as much as any other automatic weapon (look at the scoreboard at the intermission -but not on depot ofc) mainly because it is not a rush weapon.

The headshot is the most difficult kill of the game (because you have to aim a really small region) and if you downgrade the headshot to one frag, then you have to downgrade everything to 1 frag.

A full team with smg do not make me the same effect as an HEADSHOT.

Spoiler

PS : really proud of the pic... do not remove it plz I spoiled it

[Jesse]

Sniper is already getting played less and less by very good snipers, taking away two frags from a hs which, imho is very hard to get, would be ridiculous

[Boomhauer]

Sniper is underplayed in 1.1 because the AR is so OP, we all know that, just try and play sniper in ctf on a map like gothic or elevation against a decent team. AR has the ability to rifle sprint which makes flagging with the sniper even harder, you are talking about public play where it is possible to play aggressive sniper so I'm not going to continue dissecting your argument, but do you really think game balance should depend on how easy it is to kill noobs?

I use(d) only sniper and nothing else in 1.0.4 and before, and as of the last few months. That includes matches. And I wasn't "arguing" anything. But I am now... I am not talking about public play only (though public play makes up the core of common gameplay in ANY FPS) And if I end up in a server full of noobs, even if it is a ladder and I have the opportunity to rape them and whore my ratio up, I am the type that will leave (or change to the worse team) because I like a challenge, and I'm not getting one. Yes, the AR bears the advantage of MUCH BETTER rifle sprints/jumps. That means nothing when you shoot them in the FACE. ;]

[jAcKRoCk*]

I kind of agree that it doesn't matter when you shoot them in the face, however even a if you use your sniper, that doesnt mean you're going to get them each and every time, chances are you may not even have a second chance to shoot again, because of the ROF of the AR or SMG.

I love my sniper but let's face it, it's useless in CM and inters agains mid skilled players, you may take one down but not an entire team full of automatic weapons, taking away the 2 frags reward makes it even less atractive to use. It's a Plus the sniper has, and if you say it doesn't matter if it's a two frag kill then why the hell would you want to remove it, if it doesn't affect you just leave it that way.

[Bukz]

Headshots and knife gibs (slashes) should stay at 2 frags IMHO, both require a decent amount of skill to pull off compared to other kills, and everyone has a knife - it balances the 2 frag headshots rather well.

[Roflcopter]

Headshots and knife gibs (slashes) should stay at 2 frags IMHO, both require a decent amount of skill to pull off compared to other kills, and everyone has a knife - it balances the 2 frag headshots rather well.

You're really really missing the point of what I said. I agree headshots are difficult; I hold simply that rewarding them in that way doesn't make the game fun and makes it more sensible in some situations to just camp.

And by the way, the same wouldn't be true if you, say, increased sniper damage to 100 (but that would be awful for other reasons). Headshots being worth 2 points is bad not because it makes sniper marginally "stronger", but because it provides a mechanic to camp and to disincentive pushing (on maps that allow heavily defensive tactics).

If you like you can fix the issue by scoring games on flags only. That would be an even better solution.

[Mael]

If you like you can fix the issue by scoring games on flags only.

I like this but only if we throw out score as well as frags and deaths.

[Roflcopter]

By throw out you mean display but don't score based on? (If so that was my intent.)

[VenteX]

I think he means throw out completely. A one-column scoreboard for what's most important.

[Xenon]

Please devs 1 sniper 1 pistol, it will actually balance the sniper somewhat compared to automatics

[PolarHedgehog]

BRING BACK 93 SNIPER GLITCH!!

[Vanguard]

BRING BACK 93 SNIPER GLITCH!!

yes man !

[Takkunen]

So, any eta on the shotgun fix and new texture pack Makke posted about a while back?

[Nightmare]

Shotgun is pretty useless in SVN now. Haven't heard anything on the other stuff, I think he retired. :p

[Roflcopter]

I think AR at 15 bullets is simply impossible given the other stats it has currently.

To kill an un-armored enemy you need 5 AR bullet. The aG Cup Statistics show only 5 people out of 84 kept a 33% accuracy or higher with any automatic weapon. Yes this stat doesn't account for rifle sprinting, but I bet the majority of public players do not get 33% accuracy that they'd need to kill a single un-armored player with one clip.

And further, AR spread and recoil have increased so I expect most people will achieve lower accuracies in 1110 than 1104. Ages back Aekom and I played SVN and we both found it simply too hard to kill given the handling and clip size.

[Nightmare]

Thats good news for non full autos
Smg likes what it's hearing though.

[Takkunen]

Don't know if posted, but hit sounds aren't 1:1, could that be changed?

[.JK.]

Well, I will now post my findings.

AR: bump back to 20 rounds, right now it's nerfed
SMG: New noobcannon? Or is it a Gatling gun now? (best gun in the game now)
Shotgun: Y U NO SPLATTER? (basically, even if you are right next to someone, it's almost impossible to splatter, and sometimes takes more than one shot at that range)
Sniper: underpowered
Carbine: bring it back to 1.1.0.4 stats, maybe a little higher
Akimbo: It's a joke now. It's supposed to be a powerup of the SMG, yet it is less powerful.
Pistol: didn't test that yet
Knife: didn't test
Grenades: did not test
Bots: Why are they circling around pickups and running into ledges until I collect them(best difficulty)?

[ReDBuLL]

lol

[titiPT]

lol

19. Do not post ”empty” or useless responses, such as just ”lol”, "+1", or ”cool.” Only post responses when you have something to contribute. The only exception to this rule is in the off-topic forum.

[Edward]

Maybe you should translate "lol" by "your ideas are interesting" and then your post will be the only useless post here with mine.

[titiPT]

^ You totally misread my comment. It was a dissertation on the effects of quantum mechanics on modern day life. Probably lost in translation. Now can you stop your personal attacks against me every time i point out a violation of said rule 19 and continue with the purpose of the thread?

[Ronald_Reagan]

New mac file for those interested: http://www.mediafire.com/?4azuad16kkd11vx

Revision 6854.

As always, send me the bug report if it fails.

[BrkDr4GoN]

Ok I'm confused how do u get svn
Is it a different download? That's not found here but somewhere else?
IS it like an official update for assault cube? (will it be listed on the main site?)

[Orynge]

http://forum.cubers.net/thread-166.html

[BrkDr4GoN]

I really like the 1 sniper 1 pistol combo but the 1sniper n 2 pistol is also good
I think the ar change sucks cause its just gonna be really hard to use it so maybe increase the clip and maybe lower the recoil or spread that might help . Other wise sounds good but I really think they should make 1 for mac :d