Regarding haxjump
#1
Re Haxjumps:

I have a personal opinion on whether Haxjump should be restored/re-implemented but I don't think it is sustainable for the project if I make such a decision on my own.

The AC committee consisting of Grenadier, Mr. Floppy, Halo and XRD has now decided that the Haxjump will not be restored/re-implemented.

Rationale:
"Hax jumps are bugged - let you 'fly' over maps; allow to get 'infinite' speed, especially using binds/scripts; unfair - they give an advantage over people which can't use them (mainly inter players exploit it). Their non-trivial behavior, flying, etc. doesn't fit to arcade gameplay, which is a core of AC since the beginning. The compromise was fixing them by changing them to working edge jumps, which everybody can perform in a simple and predictable way. Edge jumps will work the same and fair for all. Inter player will lose advantage over pubs player, gema players will have dysfunctional gema maps. So part of inter players and gema community will be unhappy, if they won't be able to use hax jumps anymore, but removing such 'hax jumps' is just the best solution."

Thank you very much for your understanding.
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#2
(07 Apr 21, 08:17AM)driAn Wrote: The AC committee consisting of Grenadier, Mr. Floppy, Halo and XRD has now decided that the Haxjump will not be restored/re-implemented.
The best guys to ask about real gaming experience (sarcasm)
(07 Apr 21, 08:17AM)driAn Wrote: Inter player will lose advantage over pubs player, gema players will have dysfunctional gema maps.
Advantage over pub players, rly? Most of inter players got 144hz+ and top devices with a lot of gaming experience, they by default have unlimited advantage over pub players.
(07 Apr 21, 08:17AM)driAn Wrote: So part of inter players and gema community will be unhappy, if they won't be able to use hax jumps anymore, but removing such 'hax jumps' is just the best solution."
Best for who? For Grenadier, Mr. Floppy, Halo and XRD? Ask realvikings players at least, make a public vote or smthing.

Hax technique are pretty constant once u understand it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC2zAVDcFls
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#3
I will say its a fucking joke that none of the players in this 'committee' are part of the group of inter players/comp players. Once again decisions are made disregarding comp (and gema) players. All to cater to random pub players who install this game, play twice, accuse someone in a pub for cheating when they kill them 3x in a row, and then uninstall the game.

Hilariously simple train of thought to remove it after YEARS.

Public votes never really work but at least consult comp players, has this ever been done??

And some people wonder why they're getting abuse lol

edit: talked to some of the committee members and suggested some changes
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#4
I don't see why it has to be so exclusive. Unreal Tournament had mutators like low gravity and so on, so why not just make a mode where haxjumps are enabled/disabled. Personally I think the gema community should be encouraged, so giving them an option to vote gema maps with the haxjump on and whatnot seems, on the surface, to be the easiest solution. By removing things you are alienating the players who use it, thus making the playerbase even smaller. Games that feature community based content and are moddable usually have a dedicated playerbase and a good community, examples are everywhere so no need ot list any really.
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#5
If I may, I would like to add my thoughts.

1. Thanks for taking the time to update this game. It is much needed, and I'm happy to see some improvements and bugfixes coming. It's great to see this involvement.
2. About the jump: It is a hard decision to make, I understand. I use the crouch/jump all the time. It makes AC fun for me.
3. I understand the point that it is actually a bug, but to me only the bind looks like a bug, not the jump itself. I don't think it looks so weird, except when people are 'frogging' over the map with the bind. I know it wasn't intended to be in the game, but it gave some funny possibilities.
3. Even though Morry comes up with a kind of ad hominem, I understand he is frustrated that this jump is cut out. It takes skill to master it. Something that can make you grow as a player. There's room for improvement, there's a learning curve. And yes, competitive players and gema players could've shed some more light on this than the current team, who, with all due respect, see it from their own angle.
4. I don't believe that flattening the skill level is a. caused by removing this jump, or b. is necessary. New players don't know which pick ups are good, which spots are good, they don't know the maps. I mean, you wouldn't create a shotgun with 100 spread for everybody, because pubplayers can't aim would you? I even saw someone complaining about AR kickback a few weeks ago. It's exactly this possibility to become better at the game that can trigger people to improve and keep playing. At least for me it did. Some jumps in regular and official maps, also my own maps, are, or look like they are designed for this feature.
5. I don't see many people using the bind in public. When they do so in competitive play, they're usually called out. If they do it in pubs, they risk a 20 min ban usually, or if they don't I don't see so much advantage. It's also harder to aim.
6. I don't see much of a problem for gema. Only that the skill level required is lower without the jump, so it will become less fun to do.

I wouldn't personally remove this feature, as I love to use it, needed time to get good at it, and use it as an integral part of the game.
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#6
Thank you for your feedback.

I understand the frustration, but I also think that we should support the committee. I am convinced that the committee is making decisions in the best interest of the game.

Of course, it may be that not all relevant information or impacts were fully identified or considered in the decision.

So what we can do is present a new proposal (or proposals) to the committee and ask them for a decision. However, that is no guarantee that the decision will change.

rktnoob, YesWeCamp, I can assist you in submitting this proposal. If you want my help you can DM me on Discord.
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#7
I think you guys (devs) should present better arguments for the decisions you make.

I have spoked to Mr Floppy and Halo, and they actually presented reasonable and justifiable choices. Much better than the quote currently used in the post above. For future purposes I would suggest using these more concrete arguments rather than a loose quote basing things off some 'advantage inter players have over pub players' as really this is just joke logic and does not, in a sense, protect pub players whatsoever. Anyway they might have already discussed these things with you. Keep up the work!
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#8
split off into a separate thread
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#9
This reminds me of Halo 2 sword flying (which has been indirectly patched and now requires a macro to reliably perform)

Advanced movement isn't frowned on in itself but when it is exploiting a glitch to do so it doesn't seem to me like something that should stay in a pvp game especially as a macro

That said I realize strafe walking and edge jumping are themselves glitches that were embraced as features. They are easy for any player to execute though as sort of a baseline movement option for anyone.

Additionally I understand some GEMA maps utilize this jump

Perhaps going in the other direction could be considered making it easier so you reliably don't need a macro to assimilate it as a basic movement option for anyone

If the game had just came out it would've been easier to make a call but now it's sorta established so maybe should be grandfathered in, in some way, perhaps not in its current form

Could be as simple as making a "crouch jump" where you jump higher out of a crouch
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#10
Just for clarification. Edge jump is indeed a intended feature, not a glitch. However, its implementation is the reason for jumping to be glitchy and haxjump even being a thing.
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#11
I've played AC on and off for almost a decade. It was, and still is, my favorite Open Source Shooter. I never really got how some of these "glitch jumps" were done so I can see how it can put some people off as "cheating". Reading through these comments though I see that it is also a native form of gameplay. Isn't there room for both? TBH I'm just glad that there are still people playing AC. Its probably that I only really play public servers but I thought this game was pretty much dead. I try to mention it whenever is appropriate in hopes that more people will play. I really hope that AC will live on for decades to come.
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