So, that's it then, apparently.

[EndGame]

Open a a recruitment process. All those who want to be part of the dev/mod team, should present their "CV" somewhere. Present the requisites for the possition and what you are looking for. Set a deadline to hand in the information and decide. Then, with the chosen people and community ideas, re-start the project.
I'm sure there are many people who are willing to participate. I myself could help moderating the forums. As much as you might like him or not, 1cap would be a great mod. And so on, there are fantastic people that could help. The more the better. do you want people who could help with the code? you have a lot of people that could do it eventually. To name a few Lucas, drakas, rofl, SKB, jpablon. I have no idea about who else could help. They could grab everybody's ideas and create the game we all want.

If people want to leave, good for them. People come and go but AC will be there. I don't see the departure of stef as a threat but as a great opportunity to reflect on what we've done wrong. Let us help as much as we can.

I'm being serious btw.

[Luc@s]

I would respond to your whole post, but I've done enough long posts lately. So instead I'll just ask you for logs about for me saying I'd prefer 1Cap over you. If I ever said that, this quote is probably taken out of context.

Nice try, but i don't keep IRC logs. It was the last time we talked to each other.

[PhaNtom]

As much as you might like him or not, 1cap would be a great mod.

No.  No he wouldn't.

[X-Ray_Dog]

You said, you could set up a server to test master server changes - but you never did. I also never asked for control over or even access to the master server. But I remember you being too lazy to simply recompile and restart the master once - to have an alternative to banning servers from the master. I never asked for any gifts. All I ever wanted from you is you to do your work. Yes, in the near future, a server with the next protocol on it would have been nice. But RK offered to run one long ago (probably already is). Run. Not just host. You really mistake me for someone, who needs to have control over everything. I know, that that is a common forum opinion about me. Doesn't make it true.

Read my last post. Offered, was never taken up on, so why would I waste my time creating random servers? If RK is running the next MS already then cool, no wonder you gave my offer no attention. Yet here you are, trying to turn my words against me. That's all you've been doing this whole thread anyways. It had nothing to do about control. I was actually excited to see the next MS and with a separate box for testing, we both could have seen how it ran together. I'm sorry that you're blinded by your own ignorance.

A free box, with it's own IP, separate from everything else, free, just for you.

And yet, on the hidden forum, I remember the most recent post being from you about how you have to burn through the last of AC's donations to finance hosting. That's probably another reason, why you want devs to discuss in secret.

See again, you're trying to make me look like the bad guy here but let me reexplain once more for you with a direct quote from my thread in the hidden forum:

As a tl;dr, should I move AC to a vps and risk shut down if we're hit with a DDoS or stick with what I have set up now and probably drain what's left of the donations

Key words here: probably drain. But alas, you didn't see my reply apparently stating that everything did move. Hosting is now cheaper than it was when jamz took over and I still work to keep things fully maintained as I can. I'm such an evil villan who wants all of your money.

Your whole point, why Vanquish can not be held responsible for insulting me, was that "it only happened on IRC".

Again, reread my last post or two. I gave you more than it just happened on irc.

And yet, for the same reason, me calling you out on avoiding me, which also happened only on IRC, you immediately went and revoked my access to the dev parts of the forum. Immediately. No warning, no nothing.

That was the tipping point. For the 5th fucking time, you said either vanquish gets his points or you leave. It's in the irc logs I POSTED I think bottom of the 2nd page. Everyone can go look that up right now and see it for themselves. You didn't need a warning, you knew exactly what was coming after that. Only a moron would have been blinded.

Hypocrite.

<X-Ray_Dog> Fuck off

:)

Thx for the context. For those that want it, irc logs posted in one of my posts back a little.

PS: you remember, that I immediately noticed being banned from the hidden forum? That's because my goodbye-letter was supposed to go there instead of here. This whole shitfest here is basically your fault :D
I guess, as soon as you run out of excuses to defend yourself, you'll be closing or even deleting it. You own this forum...

You're so unbelievably ignorant it's sad in this case. This shitfest is none of my responsibility. You freaked out when you were called out for being wrong. Now you're in a thread still about you being wrong because you're trying to pin it on me. Have you read any posts that didn't originate from me? Everyone here has their own opinion and I didn't just sit here and tell everyone what to post. Open your eyes, maybe you should re-read this thread. Ask a moderator regarding deleted posts if you think I'm hiding something. RR literally on this page said we can close the thread when you want to. I won't have to because this is my last post.

Everything is just the same invalid argument of you trying to come up with a real excuse to leave and you want to take it out on me while completely ignoring valid points made by everyone else, devs too.

Goodbye and good riddance.

Spoiler

[1Cap]

Stef stay. We will support you as long as you support us. Just let things clearer, open a frank dialogue and everything will be fine.
*Moderation means balance. There is no need strength, just good aim.

EndGame: "Open a a recruitment process. All those who want to be part of the dev/mod team, should present their "CV" somewhere. Present the requisites for the possition and what you are looking for. Set a deadline to hand in the information and ..." Nice idea.

[Nightmare]

Stef stay.

When you get kicked for the 2nd time, you don't choose to stay.

[Cemer]

ill sacrifice my shitposts on actual discussions if it really is plaguing actual people helping design this

honestly is there anyway we could all come to a compromise without going for blood

this is not a plea to get stef back; there is no point having an extremely talented person when no one can relate to them. this is just to settle whatever debacle the community and devs have between each other. we should not grovel for the devs but they shouldnt be pandering to us wholly as well with such a small community

[Mousikos]

Stef stay. We will support you as long as you support us. Just let things clearer, open a frank dialogue and everything will be fine.

This was always the problem. Instead of assuming everyone knows your wishes, stef. You could have just made a post saying something like, "We are now going to be strictly enforcing the rules. In case you have forgotten, here are the rules:

1) Please stay on topic at all times
2) Please keep all off-topic thread sin the off-topic forum

Violators will first be verbally warned in thread. Second violations will lead to a X warning points. Third violations will lead to X warning points. Fourth violations will result in removal of _________ privledge. Fifth violations will result in forum bans."

[Vanquish]

To name a few Lucas, drakas, rofl, SKB, jpablon. I have no idea about who else could help. They could grab everybody's ideas and create the game we all want.

Lucas is already a dev. Larry is very capable and has been offering his services for years now, but he refuses to work on features that he thinks have no chance of being implemented into the official release, which I guess is understandable.

I like your idea about dev applications though. Maybe we'd see some talent emerge from seemingly nowhere, like with VonDrakula a few years back.

[Halte]

this game began to die when some retarded people started to think marti was somehow interesting.

tbh its time for you and the full dev team to admit you killed AC by trying to impose to the many your vision of the game. You killed gema, you killed modded servers, you killed crappy self made maps that were motivating people and their friends to stick with the game. Nice one jamz and the full dev team. please take your responsabilities like stef did and resign.

some could take your spot and do way better but im afraid its too late.

[Marti]

I'm more interesting than you edward

[Halte]

inb4 ban. wow jamz left, i missed quite a few things. seems devs are leaving one after another. cant handle being wrong.

now devs if you want to make things better, make ac_douze ctf back, remove maps restrictions, create the sections "join a modded server" and "join a gema server" under join a server, make the ping more accurate because brazilians are obviously killing people behind walls and demos show very well that they are shooting like retards and absolutly not aiming at the opponent !

[stef]

xrd, is that the "offer" that you mean? http://i.imgur.com/haI3zhQ.png

"I used all my public IP's for tests but I can create a remote desktop and use a local connection to test it on a clean install"

That just means, that you don't want to use the production master for tests. You're twisting stuff in your mind bit, I'm afraid.

[ElCrema]

AC forums makes me understand why lots of forum games don' t allow any posts other than bug reports and questions related to thecnical problems.
Someone smart once said: "The problem with today's world is that everyone believes that they have the right to express their opinion AND other have to listen to it.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense."

[Cemer]

i believe in the idea that every opinion should be valued and acknowledged but not necessarily be implemented

[Nightmare]

i believe in the idea that every opinion should be valued and acknowledged but not necessarily be implemented

I'd hit the thank button but yeah.

[ElCrema]

You are wrong.

[Cemer]

You are wrong.

how am i wrong with an opinion on an opinion about opinions

im not saying im right either; i was just saying what i thought

[ElCrema]

See, you just proved my point.
Don' t take me wrong Cemer and Nigthmare, it's nothing personal really, but the truth is that the forums are full of opinions and opinionated folks that DEMAND to be heard and having their opinions taken in consideration.
But the thing is: without facts (or acts), I hate to say it, but your opinion, or mine for that matter, don' t mean shit.
As Elvis would put it: "A little less conversation, a little more action please"

[Luc@s]

Problem with the "opinions" thrown on the forums is that they are very simplistic and not the consequence of a deep reflection about the game. You can tell because most of the requests are :
- tweaking something in the weapon balance
- adding a gamemode
- adding or removing maps
- adding or removing cubescript commands
- stricter or looser map restrictions / MS rules

finally people only make suggestions about something very specific that they would like, but often its so specific that its just a matter of opinion. That's why, when a feature is implemented to restrict a competitive map pool of maps/mode (so that ac_desert is only allowed tobe played in DM and TSURV for instance), people only focus on the very choice of map (which is debatable and more a matter of opinion, and thus left for a later stage of the development) instead of focusing on the motivations that led to such a feature.

Another consequence is that most suggestions we get are quite selfish and as long as we want to satisfy all of them, only thing we can hope is to please the small current community, but certainly not attracting new players. I'd rather see half of the current community gone if we gould get 4 times as many newcomers.

When people ask for a pause feature, they don't understand that its not going to make the game more popular, its just going to satisfy their own wish, thats it. When they claim their "opinion" will make the game better, they should rather say that, if we listen to their opinions, we would make the game just as they personally like it; but definitely more popular (or even good overall)

[Mousikos]

What's wrong with adding a gamemode in an effort to attract newcomers as well as looser map restrictions?

Judging by the state of the MS, most of what seems to be the newcomers enjoy twintowers, @camper, swat_silent_day, or gema maps. These maps suffer from map restrictions. I don't know why the map restrictions were added in the first place, because I haven't been around that long, but I'm not really sure why loosening map restrictions would not lead to more newcomers.

Also, it seems as if most of the suggestions are based on "How to keep competitive players" rather than "how to get newcomers". You would gladly trade half the current community for four times as many newcomers, but that half of the current community probably would not.

[Luc@s]

People make all sorts of suggestions, to orient the game as they like it. Some people demand more gemas, more ugly maps, etc. They don't care that these maps usually look terrible for a lot of people who might leave the game instantly as a result. Thats what i call selfish.
Currently newcomers seem to enjoy these maps, because :
1) these are the only maps they are not getting stomped on by decent players
2) if you hate these maps, you don't have that many options left : you basically have to hate this game, precisely because those who push for these maps, don't care about the overall impact on the game; so the only newcomers who stick around, are obviously those who can deal with these maps
So clearly loosening map restrictions won't get more players back; it will just make the game look like shit even more, and please the only ones who are happy with it.
It won't make the game more "sociable", skill-demanding, competitive, or even fun.
I think you dont' get whats at stake. YOu're it this logic i described that consists in tweaking some parameters hoping newcomers will like the game more. Think about a new player. When he starts the game, it is so confusing that he doesn't know how to meet people, how to play properly, and what "playing properly" in this game even means. (killing people through walls in ugly maps ? jumping around in gema ? getting rekt by 'unamed' on ctf ac_shine ?
And how do they even know, that many competitive games are played on a daily basis in private servers ?

[Alien]

You are not right, my start was 2 rounds of rekt by Shadow on default server and then the rest day i spent exploring and editing some shit map. People have skill to recognize official map vs coop map. The best thing in AC is you can create your own shit and share it with others. it is hard in other FPS games. There are many competitive fps with ladders but not many with such easy editing engine.

[1Cap]

1) Indeed, all players want to have fun. Build maps is what they want right now. This shows the success of Minercraft. But remember, create maps has always been an important point of the game. Surely the restrictions away many fans of the game. Absolutely! I know several players who have given up because of it. Map restrictions, this yes it was a selfish and wrong action of someone with no vision of the game.
2) A large number of players are children or adolescents. There is no way to demand good conduct or respect them. They act on impulse and are selfish. The vast majority are. So in these cases only clear and strict rules work. Explain the reason why they have been punished is very important too.
3) This game was made by programmers who did not succeed in creating a simple interface to use in the game. This makes it very difficult for new players. I can say that the average time to get to know the commands, enter matchs, etc. is more than 6 months. Certainly few new players can withstand wait that long.  Simplify the game interface should be a priority. (usability). But I strongly believe that programmers do not want it because they want to control the profile of who plays AC.
4) I believe it is not hard to split the game (or something like this):
Beginners / fun (Gema and beginners in the game)
Intermediate (already with good sense of playing technique)
Advanced (experienced players)
Perhaps colors in server list, this so leave things clear and easy to administer. I would certainly kick an experienced player of a beginner server.
I call it : AC advanced BIA system.
Assaultcube just 4 your fun!
5)New players. There are many ways to bring in new players. Facebook is certainly the most effective. There are levels of management on Facebook, I could use the "editor" user level. That does not make me owner of the page, but give me the flexibility to use the resources I need to publicize the game.

[Undead]

Problem with the "opinions" thrown on the forums is that they are very simplistic and not the consequence of a deep reflection about the game.

i don't think you're in a position to say that, when my reflections are deeper than yours, and you have consistently refused to consult with me.

You can tell because most of the requests are :
(...)
Another consequence is that most suggestions we get are quite selfish and as long as we want to satisfy all of them, only thing we can hope is to please the small current community, but certainly not attracting new players.

nothing wrong with that; its just how people feel about the game. you should address those feelings, rather than what they want. i don't believe you should be attempting to please anyone in particular, but i do believe that there should be an attempt to improve the game that we have, considering the incredible difficulty in attracting new players.

I'd rather see half of the current community gone if we gould get 4 times as many newcomers.

you won't actually be able to do that with what you want to do if the base game is still terrible for competitive play.

When people ask for a pause feature, they don't understand that its not going to make the game more popular, its just going to satisfy their own wish, thats it.

with regard to the pause feature, its not really a "why" question; its a "why not" question. if the game were to become as popular as it was in 1.0, however, a pause feature would really become necessary in this regard, or else people will just be more frustrated with the game.

So clearly loosening map restrictions won't get more players back; it will just make the game look like shit even more, and please the only ones who are happy with it.

are you aware of my solution that pleases both you and those who want "crap maps"? i'm guessing not, because your argument isn't making any reference to it. i guarantee that if that solution was implemented 6 years ago AC would be far more popular today.

It won't make the game more "sociable", skill-demanding, competitive, or even fun.

yes, it will, if you do it correctly. if you want a good example of what it means to remove all fun modes from a game, look at the success of starcraft:BW and the failure of starcraft 2. people in BW generally stayed around for the modes that weren't strict 1vs1; sassy bullshit like 4vs4s and stupid custom modes that people could play with their friends kept many people playing. in sc2, the thing that gets thrusted in your face is 1vs1, and it feels incredibly lonely, thus by failing to pay attention to the social aspect, sc2 became far less popular than its predecessor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7rH1C964uA

similarly, if you make pubs irrelevant, kill and de-legitimize gemas/custom modes, etc. etc. then you kill off everyone who isn't a competitive player. you need to actually build a community of sorts, and it shouldn't be necessarily based around a paradigm where the competitive game comes first, especially considering the current competitive game is absolute shit considering the maps, the weapon balance and problems with the weapons themselves, and whatever other problems make the game boring as hell to play for most people who aren't insane about AC like i am.

what i really think should be focused on is improving the base game and rectifying the past mistakes, like map restrictions, amongst others, before you start embarking on grand quests to encourage competitive gameplay. i think we both know what we want (more people playing AC), and i believe the way you're going about is closer to the right direction than any other dev before you, but you're really not quite there.

[Cemer]

See, you just proved my point.
Don' t take me wrong Cemer and Nigthmare, it's nothing personal really, but the truth is that the forums are full of opinions and opinionated folks that DEMAND to be heard and having their opinions taken in consideration.
But the thing is: without facts (or acts), I hate to say it, but your opinion, or mine for that matter, don' t mean shit.
As Elvis would put it: "A little less conversation, a little more action please"

i just misunderstood you the entire time

apologies

[Marti]

@Lucas, what you call ugly maps, others might call beautiful maps. Ever thought of that? That's what I call selfish.

Just like how some people think depot is a great map, while others think it's an awfull map

[Luc@s]

@Lucas, what you call ugly maps, others might call beautiful maps. Ever thought of that? That's what I call selfish.

In case you are serious  (i hope not lol) : you don't get my point. And you are still making up stuff about the devs, thinking they are autocratic people who want to persecute specific categories of players; i don't give a fuck about people playing such ugly maps. I just dont want it to be an officially supported gamestyle. BUt you can't understand that, you can't understand that those maps areextremely disappealing for the users who might have loved to play the game just like some others do (inters and clanwars etc.) but will never do so just because they have no idea all these exist.

If you want to debate for an hour to prove me some people find that shit tastes good, OK, but at the end, its only going to be a waste of time. Remember some people, unlike you, use their time to create and design stuff, instead of criticizing the other' work mainly according to principles rather than factual judgments.

[Marti]

And you are still making up stuff about the devs

please tell me, what am i making up about the devs?

[Vanquish]

looks like he's back guys