assault cube needs updates

[Marti]

If you want to be the first to know, what's currently happening: go, get a git client and a compiler. I started some threads, to help you set up and keep you in the loop. The goal was, to groom some new testers. No idea, if anyone ever read it...

please read that thread and see that i did :)

http://forum.cubers.net/thread-7917-post...#pid158147

[Undead]

I'm clueless? Do you know how to maintain code? Do you know how long it takes to bug fix some things?

this isn't relevant to what needs to be done, but yes, i understand how software development works. hence why i'm actually attempting to offer a design document for AC, of which it is clearly lacking a proper one. a development team isn't a development team if it has no central direction.

Maybe a team leader does not need to have extensive technical knowledge, but unless you have a good knowledge of basic concepts, I would say you're not fit to lead a team of coders.

and then why exactly are RK and jamz team leaders? i know, its because you're just spouting bullshit.

Undead, as soon as we implement bitching or maybe "throwing shit" as a weapon for the game, we will come for your expert opinion. As far as this forum provides evidence, that is your only field of expertise.

this is what developers actually believe.
[deleted by grenadier]

The goal was, to groom some new testers. No idea, if anyone ever read it...

fixing bugs won't fix AC. get it through your head. those are peripheral objectives.

[Nightmare]

Yoyoyo.
Can flagholder suicides not take away a flag point for the team?

Minor accidents shouldn't cost the team a hard earned flag imo.

[Luc@s]

this isn't relevant to what needs to be done, but yes, i understand how software development works. hence why i'm actually attempting to offer a design document for AC, of which it is clearly lacking a proper one. a development team isn't a development team if it has no central direction.

We already have that for woop.ac; You never read it but you seem to be able to tell its shit already; Which proves your lack of honesty...

[stef]

fixing bugs won't fix AC. get it through your head. those are peripheral objectives.

Yeah. Because no one will ever complain about shitty implementations (for example: of trick jumping). And it doesn't affect the game at all...

I need a lot of testers, because some of the changes to come will severely affect the multiplayer behaviour of the game. Game development goes on in quite big steps. It's only because of shit-throwing idiots like you, that it can't be talked through in public in the forum... just see, how much time I wasted on you today.

[Undead]

Yeah. Because no one will ever complain about shitty implementations (for example: of trick jumping). And it doesn't affect the game at all...

right, but bugs are hardly the reason for the decline in AC's popularity. just because people are complaining doesn't mean its that large of an issue. the hax jump is hardly an issue really, it has only really affected competitive play. i will be completely honest; the developers have been incredibly good at dealing with bugs/cheaters considering their lack of resources. which should tell you that bugs aren't the issue here.
now, terrible decisions and indecisiveness, those are the real reasons for AC going to shit.

I need a lot of testers, because some of the changes to come will severely affect the multiplayer behaviour of the game.

and if you had less of a selfish attitude, you would get those testers. i managed to get more people to do balance testing than lucas was able to. why is that?

We already have that for woop.ac; You never read it but you seem to be able to tell its shit already; Which proves your lack of honesty...

i'm being completely honest. your w00p project is not the answer, and it never will be. if you really did know what you were doing, you wouldn't even need to post on the forums.

[Luc@s]

We already have that for woop.ac; You never read it but you seem to be able to tell its shit already; Which proves your lack of honesty...

i'm being completely honest. your w00p project is not the answer, and it never will be. if you really did know what you were doing, you wouldn't even need to post on the forums.

Why do you think i'm posting on the forums ? I am telling people. If they are interested, they participate. If not, they can gtfo.
I know what i am doing - you don't. 
By the way, how many people did you get to play on your own ladder ? How many people did you get to play on your own servers ? How many people did you get to play your own client ? 0, because you never worked on anything similar.
Not to mention your world cup was a great success... Nice to see your skills in action.
The only players who did not like the match client, never used it :) i think it confirms i am heading in the right direction. A community without the fuckers.

[Undead]

By the way, how many people did you get to play on your own ladder ? How many people did you get to play on your own servers ? How many people did you get to play your own client ? 0, because you never worked on anything similar.

we have already countered this fallacy; why do you keep bothering?

Not to mention your world cup was a great success... Nice to see your skills in action.

did you neglect to mention that it was organized completely fine, except the players didn't want to play the tournament out?

did you also neglect to mention that, were it in any other period of AC, it would have been completely succesful?

did you also neglect to mention that, did i have access to the forums at the time, it would have been more successful?

did you also neglect to mention that much of the blame for the decline in AC's popularity lies with you.

think before you speak.

The only players who did not like the match client, never used it :) i think it confirms i am heading in the right direction.

no, you're not. we are just suspicious of malicious code in your client. we also don't like your attempts to control AC competitive play, because your balancing of 1.2 was atrocious. this indicates that you don't know what you're doing.

[deleted by grenadier]

I know what i am doing - you don't. 

lucas: we all know. we all know that you're attempting to recreate AC as it was in 1.0, with your own additions. hence your attempts to recreate the hi-skill ladder, match servers, your atrocious balancing of 1.2, etc. etc.

here is why it wont work:

firstly, very few competitive players actually enjoy 1.2's gameplay. its terrible, and i can go into extreme detail as to why its terrible, but it will go over your head.

secondly, the hi-skill ladder was good, but mis-managed. if you and drakas manage a new hi-skill ladder, it will go the same way as the former, as well as the TyD and BoB ones. there is nothing special about that ladder in comparison to the others, as it relied on the intense popularity of AC at the time for its success (you don't recall how pubs were 10x as full as they are today?). it is a useful tool for retaining players, but a far more useful tool would be a central ladder implemented into AC.

thirdly, intense, almost irreparable damage has been inflicted on AC's player base through mismanagement. you have to think about how you can either a) bring those players back and/or b) develop a new solid player base. your project will only have a minimal effect, as AC itself will still be the same horrible game.

enfin, you don't even understand how that damage has been done. i can explain it to you in terms that i think you will understand:
1) weapon balance shifts between 1.0>1.1(especially this shift) and 1.1>1.2 disillusioned large proportions of the player base. it is absolutely vital that you achieve the correct balance before you embark on projects such as this. this is of a very high priority.
2) the implementation of map restrictions caused large numbers of people to quit AC. map restrictions do not work, i don't even have to go into detail about this because almost the entire community agrees with me, aside from the devs ofc.

this also leads to my next point: the developers are obsessed with creating 'model players', who don't complain and play their 8vs8 ac_shine ctf as their told. stop this attitude today please. in the past it was rationalized as 'well, we don't need those players because they don't "get" AC'. well, look now, now nobody wants to play AC, because the current fucking developers don't get AC either and have created their own abomination.

3) a lack of direction in the project has meant that AC hasn't used its 2008-2009 momentum to surge in popularity, but rather, has moved in the opposite direction. especially around ESL times, there was the potential for AC to develop into a much more popular game, but the team lacked the initiative to take AC in that direction, mainly because they didn't understand exactly why AC was popular.

i can tell you exactly why it was: AC was fun. you could do as you wanted, and if you wanted to play the game in a certain way, you could. you could play gemas/stupid fucking ezjemvil if you pleased, play on ladders, play clan matches, etc. etc. the point is, there was a

instead of using this appeal to pool together resources and move AC in an even better, more enjoyable direction, it has instead receded due to incompetent and neglectful leadership. would you like to repeat the same mistakes of the past, and head down the path of brahma, or would you instead prefer to chance fixing the mistakes of the past and make AC work?

its completely up to you.

[Luc@s]

Again you're being extremely dishonest. You're trying to associate me with changes i am not responsible of. Then you're suggesting i'm trying to do the same as the devs i criticized at the time ? You are ridiculous...
Btw, regarding your cup.. I'm not surprised that you accuse everyone except you. But remember, that i did not join your game to troll the participants kicking them out like you did during previous cups organised by other players.

regarding your last sentence.. If it was "completely up to me", i wouldn't have to work on a fork of the game.

[Medusa]

ever heard about akimbo @ http://ac-akimbo.net/ ? It solves all of these requests.

Unless you step on the owners toes and get banned for spamming

You're lying and you're wrong. You still benefit from akimbo even if you don't have access to the forums.

You call me a liar? :D
What exactly am i lying about Luc@s?
If i'm wrong about something i'm the first to admit it unlike you others.

[stef]

i managed to get more people to do balance testing than lucas was able to. why is that?

Because you spend all day in the forum, trying to impress your fans?

You think, AC peaked in 2009? That's just another way of saying, that everything went downhill, after I got kicked from the dev team...
You should be happy, that I'm back :)

[PhaNtom]

You think, AC peaked in 2009? That's just another way of saying, that everything went downhill, after I got kicked from the dev team...
You should be happy, that I'm back :)

narcissistic much?

[grenadier]

If somebody will ask, I banned Undead.

[Vanquish]

If somebody will ask, I banned Undead.

since you became a dev have you done anything other than warn/ban people on the forum? serious question

inb4 i'm warned/banned

[Luc@s]

If somebody will ask, I banned Undead.

since you became a dev have you done anything other than warn/ban people on the forum? serious question

inb4 i'm warned/banned

https://github.com/assaultcube/AC

so hard to figure it out by yourself ?
people cry when things are not open, but when they are, they do not even know where to find the resources

[grenadier]

You think, AC peaked in 2009? That's just another way of saying, that everything went downhill, after I got kicked from the dev team...
You should be happy, that I'm back :)

narcissistic much?

No, it's a fact. For example compare number of players then and nowadays.

since you became a dev have you done anything other than warn/ban people on the forum? serious question

Could some old members of community visit sometimes GitHub? These all changes are for you... :/

[Vanquish]

Could some old members of community visit sometimes GitHub? These all changes are for you... :/

are you "aurhat" ?
Forgive me for being skeptical, but other than the "known names" in the community (lucas/stef/rr/rk/etc) he's the only one that's contributed anything since you became a dev, and I'm sure you can understand my skepticism given this post lol
Anyway I'm gonna assume it's you, but regardless of whether or not it is I don't see why that gives you a right to ban people without even warning them first (EDIT: ohey I didn't even get warned for my last post!).

[Alien]

undead has good opinions in his posts (the last one is good) but i am still surprised he survived so many of them :) you must admit in another game forum you would survive max 2 posts. :P In his defense the forum whiners are probably pain in ass and disturb but they are not reason if things go wrong. The problem here is in real life you pay high salary to developer so nobody needs to care about respect but here ...

[grenadier]

Could some old members of community visit sometimes GitHub? These all changes are for you... :/

are you "aurhat" ?
Forgive me for being skeptical, but other than the "known names" in the community (lucas/stef/rr/rk/etc) he's the only one that's contributed anything since you became a dev, and I'm sure you can understand my skepticism given this post lol

Ok, my fault ;). That post is of course up to date (many my commits have to be corrected by stef), maybe only it doesn't say too much about time devoted for AC project.

Anyway I'm gonna assume it's you, but regardless of whether or not it is I don't see why that gives you a right to ban people without even warning them first

It gives me duty, right and possibility to do that, if somebody works so much  against the project and people working hard on it. Sorry, I care too much about this game, so I can't do otherwise.

[Nightmare]

Wesnoth has a players changelog that only shows features that effect gameplay, things players will actually notice(ie ac_toxic updated). Then a normal changelog, wall of text of stuff that goes unnoticed behind the scenes by most(ie bug fixes).

What is 1.3's player changelog currently? (Github's interface is yucky, a nice short post would be better for all of the adoring fans to read.)

[Alien]

i use simple list of commits https://github.com/assaultcube/AC/commits/master

[Luc@s]

Anyway I'm gonna assume it's you, but regardless of whether or not it is I don't see why that gives you a right to ban people without even warning them first (EDIT: ohey I didn't even get warned for my last post!).

... And I don't see what gives you the right to complain ?
And the "without warning" thing is a joke. Undead was warned and banned several times already.

[Vanquish]

It gives me duty, right and possibility to do that, if somebody works so much  against the project and people working hard on it. Sorry, I care too much about this game, so I can't do otherwise.

I have nothing against you for caring about the game, that's a good thing. Contrary to how some people may interpret my posts I'm not an inflammatory person (still at 0% warning level ggwp), neither is undead. I think the whole attitude of "we devs are above collaborating with the playerbase" is what's pissing him off more than anything. coding isn't and probably will never be something undead is ever going to take a real active interest in, but tbh he probably has the best vision for the future of this game out of anybody who's ever played it (certainly out of those who are still around today). He's repeatedly said that he has a desire to work with those in charge of shaping the future of this game in order to ensure the survivability of AssaultCube as a project and to ensure the longevity of its success, and I'd almost go as far as to say he's being taunted when developers who (if they've read his posts) know fully well that he isn't proficient enough in C++ to contribute advanced pieces of code, tell him to start submitting code.

I think this is the main reason why you don't get more people trying to help. I do dabble a bit in C++ but I'm not at a level whereby I'd be able to submit something useful. That doesn't mean that I'm completely unwilling to contribute towards the game, it just means if I'm making a contribution it makes more sense that I make one that plays better to my skill strengths - and anyone who believes that bug fixes and patches of code are the sole answer to fix AC's problems is either in denial or insane.

Back to undead: he has a somewhat abrasive personality, ok - but that's really just him being brutally honest. it doesn't take away from the fact that, like you, he cares about the game and wants to help in the ways he can.
And then when he expresses the slightest frustration about people misinterpreting his efforts to help as trolling, he gets banned. I'd be pissed too.

... And I don't see what gives you the right to complain ?
And the "without warning" thing is a joke. Undead was warned and banned several times already.

I have the right to complain because it's an injustice (read my point above), and the last time I checked, this isn't North Korea or a similar authoritative dictatorship so I'm free to speak my mind.
He hasn't been warned or banned for a single post inside this thread. He was banned in the past, sure, but for completely irrelevant things, so your whole last two sentences are invalid.

[Flint]

I feel like Undead made some very valid points, albeit in his usual manner which is very brash and direct. Banning him doesn't solve the issue that it feels like from my standpoint and I'm assuming a good portion of players who post on these forums, that AC has a real disconnect between the developers and the playerbase.

[acneedsbackto11]

ok, I tried to warn, AC is on the way of death...

the servers are getting empty, several players are quitting and it is rare to see new players.

sorry, but is just my opinion,
now I will not care about that,

bye

[Connector]

My opinion=AC Need 3.0 version.
My Second Opinion=Gema Is Epic

By Kirby Mirbys Birby's

[Luc@s]

ok, I tried to warn, AC is on the way of death...

the servers are getting empty, several players are quitting and it is rare to see new players.

sorry, but is just my opinion,
now I will not care about that,

bye

Your reasons are objectively wrong. Not only they have nothing to do with the transition from 1.1 to 1.2, but also they are already implemented for most of them.

[Marti]

My opinion=AC Need 3.0 version.

There isnt even 2.0

[Nightmare]

QQQQQQQQ

Your reasons are objectively wrong. Not only they have nothing to do with the transition from 1.1 to 1.2, but also they are already implemented for most of them.

Why do you reply to crazies instead of my pro-dev post last page? <3

[Luc@s]

Why do you reply to crazies instead of my pro-dev post last page? <3

regarding -1 when you commit suicide while holding the flag in HTF/KTF: i dont' care. we have to make sure it doesn't get exploited (e.g. to save some time in HTF) in a way we do not want.

regarding the changelog : whatdid you think of the 1.2.0.0 changelog ?