A Game Theory..

[MykeGregory]

So. I'v had this strange realisation about all the shooter games i'v enjoyed, and others i havent..

Not sure if this correlation is personal to me or coincidence so i thought i'd share.

i have noticed a pattern in shooter games that makes them GOOD or BAD and it relates to PLAYER SPEED and KILL TIME.
I consider AssaultCube to be good game, as you can see from the graph the player speed is high and the kill times are quick balancing itself out.

Halo i have used as another example, but this time the player speed is SLOW and kill times are also SLOW, again bringing balance to the speed of gameplay.
But Call of Duty? CoD has always annoyed me when playing and this is when i noticed this pattern. CoD's player movement is SLOW but you die faster than you can blink! VERY fast. Putting it right in that red line of shitness.



Maybe these are just crazy ramblings but i feel like there is some kind of truth to this..
Do you think i'm right? Maybe there are some examples that would disprove my theory? Discuss.

[Orynge]

I like all three. Checkmate.

[DrauL]

I like all three. Checkmate.

+1

[killerjoe]

Thats bull. it takes you 20 bullets to kill one person in AC i play call of duty on xbox (ok im a snob) and it takes up to about ten bullets depending on the weapon.

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you cant aim as good in ac to much backfire and you cant scope. so i reacon the kill time is probably 4 times as high on CoD then AC

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id play CoD any day over AC

[Nightmare]

So AC should make all the guns stronger and the playerspeed faster.
#hardcore-esport

[Mr.OpTic]

Thats bull. it takes you 20 bullets to kill one person in AC

Disregarding armour, it takes 5 bullets with the AR, and 7 with an SMG. Dont get confused about how many bullets it takes to kill someone (assuming they hit), just because you lack the ability to aim.

i play call of duty on xbox (ok im a snob) and it takes up to about ten bullets depending on the weapon.

Again, utter trash. The vast majory of automatic weapons, in modern Call of Duty games, take between 2-3 bullets at close range, and 3-6 at medium/long range

you cant aim as good in ac to much backfire and you cant scope.

If we're talking purely on a fragging basis, diregarding rifle sprinting etc, an average competitive player in CoD, compared to an average competitive player in AC, will tend to have a lower accuracy. You can aim a lot easier on AC.

You can't scope in AC because well, they dont have one (aside from the sniper, obviously). If you're getting confused (again) about terminology, and actually referring about the fact that AC is hip-fire only, and not aiming in using iron sights, it still isnt a valid reason as to why people cant 'aim as good'.

so i reacon the kill time is probably 4 times as high on CoD then AC

i reacon you are right

[Hellspell]

Assaultcube kill time should be higher. Whenever I play AC it frustrates me how long it takes to kill someone because I play CoD mainly. Even if someone isn't armoured and you compare it to someone using a low damage weapon in CoD say MP7 silenced, it still takes me longer using CoD smg or AR. Or compare carbine to Mk 14.
Also CoD is very much more popular than AC and AC is free. I think that might suggest CoD lies instead on the scarlet lineation of stupendousness?

[Alien]

i have seen the title "game theory" and i excepted math :D

[PhaNtom]

@Hellspell, CoD is a realistic shooter, AC is not.

[killerjoe]

you cant aim as good in ac to much backfire and you cant scope.

You can't scope in AC because well, they dont have one (aside from the sniper, obviously). If you're getting confused (again) about terminology, and actually referring about the fact that AC is hip-fire only, and not aiming in using iron sights, it still isnt a valid reason as to why people cant 'aim as good'.

You can't scope in AC cos the developers cant be arsed :P

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I advise that the developers put a scoping ability into the next AC version cos people play ac then uninstall it because of my reasons. i think AC would get at least 25% more popular

[ExodusS]

Players can't scope on CS as well, your +25% is a pure speculation and IMO, it would not even represent a percent of what you think. People who download AC are aware (or stupid) that it will be a soft and simple game with a fast gameplay and without tons of fonctionalities.
Why should we add something useless to the game (accordingly to the fact it won't change the spread of each weapons, and even if it does, it would not affect the carabine, the sniper and the carabine at all) that would make it way more complex ... if you keep the same spread and movement speed/jump while you scope, such a feature would just represent a useless design part that does not fit with a quake-like AC is.

And to finish with god damn shitty games such as COD, you must mind that 90%+ of players who play on COD are people who will find the game boring, repetitive and would stop play sooner than they would with AC. Just compare the lifetime of both games... COD is constantly creating needs, and little kids are falling in the same trap. Stupid people.

[Hellspell]

your +25% is a pure speculation

you must mind that 90%+ of players who play on COD

[ExodusS]

your +25% is a pure speculation

you must mind that 90%+ of players who play on COD

It's not a speculation, you can troll me but you can't contest the amount of player who buy each new COD is the same or is in a constant increasing phase since years, meaning those people are not playing each version of COD for years but only play a few months until a new COD is available. Just go on old COD servers and tell me the amount of players in comparison with the amount of player when the game raised (game's release).

EDIT: Check the curves by yourself and see: here
Just check black-ops's curve, it goes from ~50K players to ~5K players, welcome to the accurate -90%, in just two years, I won't tell you what 6+ years (even younger than AC) would do to the curve.

CoD4 is an exception.

[Hellspell]

How many are playing 1.0.4? 1.1.04? Then we're not talking about 90+%, we're talking about ≤100%. Guess that makes AssaultCube pretty damn shitty by your logic. The only reason each most recent release of AC has a reasonably constant population for so long is because updates are so sporadic. Also, the same players don't play AC all the time. Players are constantly uninstalling AC and being replaced by the latest batch of unarmeds. Many will uninstall that day, more that week, before long your 90% will have gone. Most likely faster than 90% stop playing CoD multiplayer because AssaultCube's gameplay is far more repetitive and boring than Call of Duty's. If it wasn't it wouldn't be free.

[ExodusS]

People can't play anymore 1.0.4, 1.1.0.4 because there is no masterserver available (iirc) this is why they must come to the lastest version of the game, but this is a version, not a whole new game such as CoD does. The lastest version of AC is like a today's CoD 4 update, it's here to fix bugs, add a few contents, ballance weapons, maintain the game alive. It's not even comparable.

[Hellspell]

Last I checked which was a while ago there was an official ms for a previous version online. Anyhow two versions at least have had an ms online simultaneously in the past and people evaquate the old version when they don't yet have to. They still don't, there has been access to alternate ms's for older versions in the past but people don't make use of them. The same thing happens when a new CoD comes out. The old one drops in popularity because a new game is out.
So it is fairer to compare AssaultCube and CoD across releases. CoD gets more popular apart from the last one, AssaultCube I have never seen as few players (or as many servers) as now. This is whenever I have looked. Perhaps AC has begun to deplete it's reservoir of potential new players. That and the gameplay is too dull and lacking in variety to keep enough of them.

[ExodusS]

Getting stickied to a game doesn't deal with one single factor (@variety). Each new CoD's are whole new games with whole new singleplayer campains, weapons, multiplayer contents and stuff. If devs were going to push as many changes as a new CoD is doing each times, devs would call the release AC 2.0 instead. You can ask Lucas about the naming of the 1.2, devs were not going to call it like that at all, it was just going to be a public release called 1.1.0.5 or maybe 1.1.1 or something, because not that many contents were added, it was still the same game, not something totally different.
Plus, out of a bunch of new weapons/maps and a pretty similar gameplay to the last one, CoD has nothing more to offer.

About the masterserver, I'm almost sure Drakas hosted one at the start of the 1.1 release, maybe he hosted it during months, but I don't think so, and it was not official anyway.
AC is able to show a lot of varieties, the amount of varieties is not the main factor on how to keep players on the game, I'd say the average amount of time it takes to a player to discover all AC's possibilities IS the main factor. You can not learn how to handle each weapons, all modes and their mechanics, all mods, everything about mapping, everything about teamwork, modelling, codding in less than a year, so it will take you a lot of time to find the game boring. To most of your eyes, AC is just a game where you shot animated characters, but it's also an in-game editor where you can learn some basics, the game is OPS so there are a lot to deal with too... If I still play it after 5+ years, it's not because I didn't found something better or because I'm dumb, it's because I find the game attractive still. AC's golden age was when a lot of computers/laptops only could run small games such as AC and also when Linux and Mac has no good/commercial games to offer, this time ended a few years ago. Today, Linux and Mac has a lot of "good" games and today's old computers are now able to run graphically better and more attractive games. THIS is what I call an important factor, but please, don't tell me I'm wrong when I counter the "scope on each weapon" argument. AC is going downhill because almost all his positive facts are now worthless, deal with it.

[killerjoe]

Out of over 100,000 people playing black ops 2 alone and the 30 people playing ac then I'd expect a more complex chart than that.

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Ac is allso a game that has the graphics quality of 80s games. I'm not saying I don't enjoy ac every so often but to be onest with you someone who had such a low end computer like that has kept is computer quite well for the last 30+ years.

[Waffles]

Disregarding the previous sentiments, how does playing on a console make you a snob? Not to beat a horse to death, but im fairly confident I could out reaction any console player with a mouse any day of the week, wasted or sober.

[ExodusS]

Ac is allso a game that has the graphics quality of 80s games. I'm not saying I don't enjoy ac every so often but to be onest with you someone who had such a low end computer like that has kept is computer quite well for the last 30+ years.

Not really, or at least I'm almost sure Brett told me something about your maxfps, if you just don't set a maximum, your computer will give you the best he can, if this is right (and it seems logic) the lifetime of your computer depends a lot of this setting I'd say.

[+f0r3v3r+]

Ac is also a game that has the graphics quality of 80s games. I'm not saying I don't enjoy ac every so often but to be onest with you someone who had such a low end computer like that has kept is computer quite well for the last 30+ years.

Yeah, you know... Those "'80's" games...



EDIT: Now if only I could get AC to run on this old C64....

[killerjoe]

Ac is also a game that has the graphics quality of 80s games. I'm not saying I don't enjoy ac every so often but to be onest with you someone who had such a low end computer like that has kept is computer quite well for the last 30+ years.

Yeah, you know... Those "'80's" games...

Platform games was the most popular thing back then. Try to find some games that had AC's style

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Half-Life is a late 80s early 90s FPS game with the same graphics as AC

[ExodusS]

Half-Life is a late 80s early 90s FPS game with the same graphics as AC

Oh my god, you... no... please stop.

[Hellspell]

killerjoe how long does it take you to do a google and find out Half life was released in 1998?
Anyway exodusS it is like you said, to your average player AC is just a game where you shoot animated characters. They are not interested in mapping or modding. And the multiplayer is just such a tame, unengaging experience when you compare it with CoD. A lot of players for instance 2 of my friends who I convinced to play the game find AssaultCube boring straight of the bat. I myself stopped playing AC regularly once I had CoD. I now go on just to map and meet up with players.
If you don't like CoD you don't like it. I can't see why anyone would play AC's multiplayer after having played CoD's multiplayer but everyone is different. I just don't get how a game that people pay for that is more popular than AC is as you say shitty when AC is not.

[Flames]

Platform games was the most popular thing back then. Try to find some games that had AC's style

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Half-Life is a late 80s early 90s FPS game with the same graphics as AC

You just basically said that you are a retard, sorry to be harsh but the truth is that you are a CoD idiot who knows nothing of video games. Please stfu.

[TheNihilanth]

Half-Life is a late 80s early 90s FPS game with the same graphics as AC

Half-Life is easily in the top 10 of the best games of all time.
I would teleport you to Gonarch's Lair so it can teabag your noob face for not getting the release date right.

Edit: Goddamn typos...

[killerjoe]

All the same the graphics are extremely unrealistic its like me playing football in a room full of fuzzy plastic

[+f0r3v3r+]

Using list points inappropriately and arbitrarily for the sake of argument could be fun here... Let's try it....

1) CoD is developed by massive game companies with multi-million dollar budgets that are padded by multi-million dollar advertising budgets... They had better make games that trump AC on the kind of change dumped on 'em.... And with all of the hype, ofc they have all kind of people jumping to the next edition every time they release one...

2) CoD is proprietary, overpriced(imo) software which segregates platforms in Multiplayer(afaik)

3) You are never gonna see CoD run on a freaking toaster, not gonna happen....

4) Most CoD kids have terrible attitudes and egos and banter on so much it makes me thankful everyday we don't have native voip chat support in AC...

5) CoD data costs GB's of space.....

6) CoD community is completely over-sized and not unified...

7) Unless you have an epic PC, you gonna get raped paying for a console...

8) Too much hate - While heavy on resources, expensive, and proprietary, CoD fully immerses users in multiplayer online, realistic War game environments tailored to keeping the next generation of over-stimulated youth glitching and prestiging their way through life...

9) I am going to quit hating on CoD right now, as it is detracting from my love for AC....

10) AC is a free, open-source, cross-platform game developed by volunteers...

11) Outside of the infrequent nickel and dime donations received, AC operates on No real budget...

12) AC has a dedicated community of Hobby gamers and coders that don't give a shit that you think this game is dead and outmoded....

13) 25 Million+ log lines and nearly 40000 demos stored on my servers since March say there is some, if only a marginal, amount of life still in this game...

14) I have met all kind of noob and veteran players (in AC) that are pretty awesome people, including many professional adults that are much more fun to play with than all of the snot-nosed Ego brats that need to pull their CoD syringe out before they become obese vegetables living on disability checks in their parent's basement...

15) Sorry if that hit close to home, you may want to reconsider your life priorities...

16) AC has no real driving team of advertising agents and executives pushing for the games success.... Quite frankly, I am ok with this...

17) AC is the cumulative result of years of effort on behalf of volunteer developers, artists, and moderators....

18) AC began at something like 19MB and is still sitting at < 60MB currently on the Official Download... If you collect every map and package you find, you might be able to really pile up GB's on your HDD... Most don't, but it is possible...

19) And now for a little hate for AC to give realism...

20) Shrinking competitive scene - (I won't argue this, but note how many "competitive" players hang around complaining about how dead AC is whilst not actually even playing AC...Just sayin')

21) Development team is, generally speaking from my own perspective, mired in red tape created by reliance on a very small circle of trust... This is not intended to focus blame or criticize, just stating one view I have had from a limited experience participating in this forum...

Spoiler

[rant]
That is to say - I often see people talk about development being stagnant because existing developers "have real lives" and "don't have time" or "it's not like we're getting paid"
And yet many potential coders that stumble in to the community aren't accepted solely on a fear that people won't stick to what the game was intended to be...
I feel there are some who are so damn over-protective of this game that they are killing it...
I love this game, I don't want to see it die... But seriously, it is not like the code it self is so awesome it can't be improved... Is it that hard to trust some of the people that have tried to help out over the preceeding years?
I will grant that stef returning has likely at least begun to see the gears getting greased again... I applaud that...
But, I have encountered experienced coders who understand the situation in AC well, and realize that any radical proposition will be shot down immediately on time required...
But if one of these people is willing to spend 10-20 hours a week towards development, why not bring them on-board?
Instead we brush them off and tell them to propose a commit that may or may not get reviewed by some one experienced enough to measure the merit of their work...
As some have said, that is fine, but why would anyone want to work knowing it may not even ever be used, or even considered?
To end this, I am only serving food for thought, not trying to provoke or criticize... Sorry...
[/rant]

22) AC is now a "throwback" game that has seen stagnant growth in recent years due to the number of more advanced games and hardware currently available... This may be true... But it is still an impressive volunteer work of it's own, especially when compared to the games of the "80s" that killerjoe has demonstrated he knows nothing about...

23) The forum is often too far outweighed by the voices of so many egotists, who are the first to jump at correcting people for minor garbage, even if they knew what the person was trying to communicate...
Just too many snarky kids that haven't really done anything in their life yet trying to condescend on to other people who are at least making an effort to participate...

Which leads to...

24) Not enough appreciation for participation, and especially when it comes to noobs... (killerjoe is an exception, I felt bad when he left the community the first time, now I wish I hadn't)
But, quite simply, I have had enough of all of the snarky egotists running off the noobs...
Point blank - some of these people contribute nothing and take a dump on everyone who gives them the chance... That is fine, but this is me telling those people, it actually isn't fine and you are shitty people even if you will never will/have-to care about it...

TL;DR

To me, there is still a lot of potential for improving and refining AssaultCube, regardless of all of the odd feature-sets people incessantly propose...
It is far from a perfect game by any Universal standard...
But it isn't CoD, it isn't gonna be CoD, and I'm done reading comparisons made by video game addicts that were too busy to learn any historical facts whilst building up their gaming resume... And I am done hearing people who don't want to propose an actual commit to the project whining about how every multi-million dollar proprietary game they play is better than AssaultCube... Go play those games non-coders - I'll keep the noobs.... Thanks....

[killerjoe]

Keep on justifying AC and It's developers but think about this one. If AC is really better than CoD then why isn't it on the top PC games in general. I mean CoD is extremely popular and is complimented by its graphics and ranking set up. AC is just an FPS with worse graphics than minecraft and is FULL to the brim with vote abusers, trolls and hackers. Ok. You made your own game. Well done but you've got to except the floors in the design.
You're lucky to get AC into the top PC games for ubuntu.

[Orynge]

Please don't put "CoD" and "PC" in the same sentence please.