Hitfixed clients

[Vanquish]

Then, bring next version with fixed client.

This is already implemented and has been for about a year, I believe this was actually where Larry took the code to make his client.

[ExodusS]

I can't help/contribute more but just encouraging people like Larry to work with devs and improve our beloved game.

He did nothing but using already implemented SVN contents for his personal advantage.

[OpenSource]

He did nothing but using already implemented SVN contents for his personal advantage.

And everyone else done the same thing has been blacklisted for cheating.
Why this is different is something i fail to see.

[macm]

i don't think anyone suffering from this would be against this client.
the game is meant to be played on older computers, yet if you have a low frame rate you are punished although you may be hiting your enmy.

It is unfair if player A has 47% unhits and player B has 0% unhits in a 1v1, isn't it?

[Ronald_Reagan]

Dear Mr.President, please help us RR!

I'd rather not get mixed up in this.

[Oracle]

I personally do not think this should be openly distributed.
Although I kinda understand Larry's justification (to an extent), it still is a bit questionable.

This makes me uncomfortable. It seems the boundaries are constantly being pushed. I'd prefer that you play the way AC was packaged.

BigGunz really nailed it right here. ^^
Perhaps coding an altered client is a bit outside the realm of most players in this community (most of the BLed players are "cheaters," who merely use these clients created by 'hackers" - V-Man would always make that distinction), but there are still simple things that players (especially the "competitive" sort), that do in some ways give unfair advantages.
Stuff like brightskins, jump bind, and to an extent that script that spams the damage made in team-chat.

Perhaps we should do like what is done in sauerbraten with the SWL client? Larry (or somebody else willing to volunteer) could create a specific "competitive" client that includes some of the above mentioned things, such that they become the norm?

[Roflcopter]

Proof I'm not cheating.

Players with FPS that is a stable multiple of 25 don't get unhits.
My client is equivalent to a graphics driver update that allows me to get 200 stable FPS.
If my client is a cheat, then why aren't graphics drivers?
Most of you complaining, already probably have the supposed advantage I have!

I almost always play on fixed servers anyway. When I don't, the players know and accept that I'm using this client.


I'll add that people used to called fixed servers cheating too, since it changes the balance in vague and unpredictable ways. Some people are not comfortable pushing boundaries, but I am glad I'm not you. I know my motives are fair and just! <3

[EndGame]

Next version has fixed client. Forget what I said before :-/ (unless a patch available for everybody with fixed client for this version is realesed but that would be meaningless and time-consuming (wasted) since we are just about playing next version soon)

[Krayce]

since we are just about playing next version soon

Any estimation?

This release it seems interesting.

[BigGunZ]

Proof I'm not cheating.

Players with FPS that is a stable multiple of 25 don't get unhits.
My client is equivalent to a graphics driver update that allows me to get 200 stable FPS.
If my client is a cheat, then why aren't graphics drivers?
Most of you complaining, already probably have the supposed advantage I have!

I almost always play on fixed servers anyway. When I don't, the players know and accept that I'm using this client.


I'll add that people used to called fixed servers cheating too, since it changes the balance in vague and unpredictable ways. Some people are not comfortable pushing boundaries, but I am glad I'm not you. I know my motives are fair and just! <3

The difference is that you're modifying the client for your benifit not updating a driver. At least with hitfixed servers it attempts to help drops for everyone playing.

Your motives are probably good but 1.2 is just around the corner. I'd stick it out until then and avoid the whole issue.

[Roflcopter]

The difference is that you're modifying the client for your benifit not updating a driver.

That's a completely artificial distinction. If I updated to a graphics driver with built-in wallhack would that be okay?

The problem is, you're worrying about the detail, whether I modified my client or driver to get this "advantage". I think it's nicer to realise anyone could legally get no unhits, and not worry about how they do it. There's essentially no difference between modifying a driver to avoid unhits and modifying a client. When you play Vanquish, he's not getting any unhits anywhere -- why is it a big deal if I don't get unhits anywhere too?

[#M|A#Wolf]

Players with FPS that is a stable multiple of 25 don't get unhits.

Not true. I have a fps in the multiples of 25 and from my experience as well as hearing it from others, factors like having an unstable pj and playing against high ping players can still lower your hitreg; as well as the weird days where bullets just don't seem to register for an unknown reason.

[Roflcopter]

Players with FPS that is a stable multiple of 25 don't get unhits.

Not true. I have a fps in the multiples of 25 and from my experience as well as hearing it from others, factors like having an unstable pj and playing against high ping players can still lower your hitreg; as well as the weird days where bullets just don't seem to register for an unknown reason.

I believe this is false. That is a stable multiple of 25 FPS (such as Vanquish gets) is enough to avoid any unhits. Quite likely you don't have an absolutely stable multiple of 25 FPS.

[Vanquish]

Sometimes I get unhits, but I restart my AC and then it's fine. This happens regardless of what my framerate may be.

FYI, plenty of players have a stable 125/200/500/1000/whatever fps, no idea why I was singled out twice.

[Roflcopter]

Sometimes I get unhits, but I restart my AC and then it's fine. This happens regardless of what my framerate may be.

FYI, plenty of players have a stable 125/200/500/1000/whatever fps, no idea why I was singled out twice.

How are you measuring this? You're not just feeling it right?

[Vanquish]

How are you measuring this? You're not just feeling it right?

/connect ac.fd.tc


EDIT:
Tested my framerate at different intervals, playing whilst looking across ac_douze on "high" settings + 1920x1080 res.

125fps - 0/100 bullets lost
200fps - 0/100 bullets lost
250fps - 0/100 bullets lost
500fps - 0/100 bullets lost
600fps - 1/100 bullets lost
700fps - 6/100 bullets lost
800fps - 1/100 bullets lost
900fps - 18/100 bullets lost
1000fps - 11/100 bullets lost


And the same on desert:

125fps - 0/100 bullets lost
200fps - 0/100 bullets lost
250fps - 0/100 bullets lost
500fps - 0/100 bullets lost
600fps - 0/100 bullets lost
700fps - 2/100 bullets lost
800fps - 1/100 bullets lost
900fps - 3/100 bullets lost
1000fps - 1/100 bullets lost


Also it's worth noting some things; lag affects hitreg (definitely for me anyway, whenever I play on WiFi my hits feel less "regular"), and the in-game FPS counter isn't correct at all. Testing it using a program like MSI Afterburner is a much more reliable indication of your framerate, imo.

[Fate]

A stable FPS still doesn't give you 0% unhits. My FPS is a solid 500 (does not jitter) and yet I still get the odd unhit, although this time I know it's due to a high ping (around 300ms, and pj is stable). But even so, the overall percentage of unhits is still very low...

Edit: On second thought, perhaps it isn't my connection. But the occasional unhit is still there.

[Roflcopter]

500 FPS sounds unlikely to be completely stable. With 200 FPS, do you get any? It's possible Vanquish also hasn't absolutely stable FPS. I will admit I may be wrong, I was surprised when I first heard it was only FPS dependant, but I'm also not completely convinced yet.

And in any case, there's never any issue if we're playing on fixed servers (so far that's all I've played on with it), and on unfixed servers you can always choose not to play me. The reason I posted this was so people know and can make that choice!

[Fate]

If I measure with the in-game FPS counter, then yes, it is completely stable on all the official maps looking at any direction. As for playing with 200 FPS, I can't comment on this with absolute certainty since I need to play with this much FPS first..

And I'll say again, the overall percentage of unhits I get is still very low -- I estimate at or below 0.1%. I say this because I sometimes notice a single bullet dropping. What lead me to think a high (300ms?) ping could be a factor is because sometimes when I'm the one getting fired at first, the server will think I'm dead by the time my bullet should have registered.
Another example is I fire a single round just as they disappear around a corner. I hear a hitsound but the hit didn't register.

How do I know if it registered or not?
I use an older version of that infamous damage script. This one doesn't spam my teammates, instead it just tells me how many hits have landed.

[Roflcopter]

Try using ac.fd.tc (seems down currently).

[Fate]

Yeah I've tested my percentage on that server, and yeah it does say 0%.

But what I described above still occurs. (Ninja edited the post -- changed estimated percentage to imply that for me this is really trivial to the point that I don't really care since it's such a small percentage)

[Roflcopter]

It's just your method could measure some unhits my client doesn't protect against I think. For instance, unhits from the anticheat and where you and an enemy both shoot a player and he dies, so your extra bullets that hit the enemy can't be counted because he's already dead. My client only fixes the hits lost that ac.fd.tc measures.

Like I say, I am not 100% sure about any of this. But your case seems to be in agreement with unhits only depending on FPS.

I will ask Vanquish tomorrow about the details of his case.

[BigGunZ]

Whether a driver update or editing your client yields the same result is irrelevant. The problem is that you are doing something that others don't have the knowledge to do that benefits you alone.

If you had created a client yourself and brought it to the community, pushing for it to be added to 1.2 then i'd be completely for it. You went about it by posting saying that you are using a client (with what seems like code from 1.2) that will help hitdrops for you and that if anyone has a problem with it, don't play with you.

[Mr.OpTic]

The problem is that you are doing something that others don't have the knowledge to do that benefits you alone.

So you're saying i shouldn't use the Deathadder and a new headset that's coming in my post tomorrow because it's going to give me an advantage to me and me only :P. The issue is no one really knows where the line is.

[#M|A#Wolf]

The problem is that you are doing something that others don't have the knowledge to do that benefits you alone.

So you're saying i shouldn't use the Deathadder and a new headset that's coming in my post tomorrow because it's going to give me an advantage to me and me only :P. The issue is no one really knows where the line is.

There are different kinds of advantages, buying a new mouse and headset is irrelevant to this case.

[Roflcopter]

Whether a driver update or editing your client yields the same result is irrelevant. The problem is that you are doing something that others don't have the knowledge to do that benefits you alone.

It's very relevant actually, because if it yields the same result how can one be unfair and the other not?

I would love others to use a fixed client too. I can't help them with that though.

If you had created a client yourself and brought it to the community, pushing for it to be added to 1.2 then i'd be completely for it. You went about it by posting saying that you are using a client (with what seems like code from 1.2) that will help hitdrops for you and that if anyone has a problem with it, don't play with you.

No, I'm saying if you have a problem with it, play me on a fair server actually! If you refuse a fair server, I don't see how you can complain.

I notice nobody has been able to draw anything more than an arbitrary line between faster graphics drivers and my client. I think my client essentially may as well be considered an FPS boost without the extra FPS. :)

[BigGunZ]

Your playing using a modified client that helps improve drops. Not everyone has access to this client to give them the same way of helping drops for themselves. I don't think it could be any more clear.

It's the combination of having modified your client and it being for the sole purpose of helping yourself in a way that others cannot for themselves.

[Oracle]

The problem is that you are doing something that others don't have the knowledge to do that benefits you alone.

So you're saying i shouldn't use the Deathadder and a new headset that's coming in my post tomorrow because it's going to give me an advantage to me and me only :P. The issue is no one really knows where the line is.

There are different kinds of advantages, buying a new mouse and headset is irrelevant to this case.

This.^^
I think the main issue is making changes within the game itself (mods, scripts, etc.) rather than external changes (mouse, headsets, etc.).

[Roflcopter]

Your playing using a modified client that help improve drops. Not everyone has access to this client to give them the same way of helping drops for themselves. I don't think it could be any more clear.

But many people have access to stable FPS that is a multiple of 25 which gives the same advantage. I am demonstrating to you that practices that are accepted as legal are insignificantly different to what I am doing. So much so that you can't show me any real difference between what I am doing and these accepted practices.

Here's a concrete example of something that meets all the criteria of your quote above but is accepted as definitely NOT cheating: recompiling your client (without changing any code) for more FPS. Let's see...

• I would be playing with a modified client
  
• that can help improve drops
  
• Not everyone would have access to it
  

I keep asking, what is the core difference is between faster graphics drivers and my client?

I think the main issue is making changes within the game itself (mods, scripts, etc.) rather than external changes (mouse, headsets, etc.).

So driver wallhacks are okay? :p

[Mr.OpTic]

...

So you're saying i shouldn't use the Deathadder and a new headset that's coming in my post tomorrow because it's going to give me an advantage to me and me only :P. The issue is no one really knows where the line is.

...

This.^^

I was merely making a point about the lack of definition with AC's current status in terms of fair play.