ac_tiebreak

[ExodusS]

Hello AssaultCube community, today I'm going to speak about a new map project for the 1.2. If you play less than 1 match (I said match, not inter, not publics) per months, no offence but your posts will have no real value.

I will have a lot of free time soon, and I will start a map (desert-urban theme), using all my knowledge in mapping, I will try to make a 100% fair map esecially for match players (it's why I called this thread "ac_tiebreak").

Of course, some official maps are not that biased, but there is always something that gives an advantage somewhere (shine, depot, sunset, elevation are known to be as fair as possible but it's still unfair, not a lot but unfair)
Since there is NO 100% fair map in the official package, I will try to to make a map that gives a chance to all weapons , and the gameplay will look like a perfect axial symmetry.

How am I going to make a map playable for all weapons? (watch out, I'm speaking about the 1.2/SVN weapon balance!)
This is the easy part, shotgun is the best weapon at short ranges and the worst at long ranges, SMG is good at short-mid ranges, AR is good at mid-long range, and sniper/carabine will carry the middle side (kinda like ac_shine but the sniper will not be able to own the RVSF left side so easily). Each box, obstacles, barrels etc will have a special place to offer the best match experience and a gameplay as soft/fast as possible.

How am I going to make a 100% fair map?
Fisr of all, I need a gameplay, the axial symmetry is just the start, but there is a lot of gameplay that fit with the actual idea (a huge-8 gameplay is the most simple one, but I obviously need a more complex gameplay, feel free to give ideas, gameplay drawings ideas, etc...).
During the entire mapping process, I will ask advices of all match players I know (from all active clans, and I will also try to get advices from old MIA match players). Actually, I will need advices from active clans I never cross on teamspeak/this forum such as rC, LC, oNe, ex-legacy, MyS etc...

I will often edit this first post to give news, work in progress and interesting advices, if you are a confirmed mapper, feel free to contact me, I'm open to any help from any experienced mapper.

Actual gameplay project (picture):

Spoiler

You can start helping me by answering to those questions:
-What is the perfect use of helmet on map in match?
-Can the overuse of different textures affect the FPS?
-What is the perfect form of a base, to avoid spawnkills and stuffs?
-What do you think about this gameplay idea?

Some basic informations/issues about the base:

I don't want to make a splited/huge base for some reasons, first of all this map is made for matches, so we can't let some facts ruining the gameplay.

Bad exemple: ac_desert3 CLA base, spawns are dumbs, there are spawns at the top (out of the base lol), the map is huge and when the enemy escape with your flag, the most important points to stop him is to have a good spawn (or not a unlucky one). It's the same thing on ac_depot, if you spawn front of the way the enemy escapes, he's dead, if you don't spawn at the oposite... bad luck. To avoid this, I will make a non splited base (remember the ac_desert3 exemple) and i'll make a not huge room, like that different spawns will not affect the random spawn a lot.

Bad exemple: ac_shine, both bases are very open, this offers a very soft, fast and enjoyable gameplay, but this is a serial issue related to the spawn kill, if you stay on sides (right and left) you can easily spawnkill an oponent (because spawn orientations are not always very well placed). Plus the CLA side is directly open to the middle, spawning here with a sniper/ar front is like spawning half HP. To avoid this, if you check the gameplay picture, you can see the middle is not directly linked to bases, there is a room between the base and the mid. Plus, to avoid spawn kills, spawn points will have a good orientation and will be sticked to walls, like that the spawnkiller will not be in your back (but front or at sides).

NO TL;DR FOR YOU, READ PLEASE.

[Andrez]

Something like douze, with a bridge in the middle and some walls around with small windows for snipers...

[RKTnoob]

Watch out for stairs, attacking upstairs is easier than downstairs. You see, when you're about a few steps on the stairs, and a teammate is on the foot of them you can shoot over his head on enemies on top of them and not shoot your teammate in the back by doing so.

In a reverse situation, a teammate on the stairs is obscuring your line of fire until he is at least level with the enemy.

[Nightmare]

Nice idea, exo, hope it goes official when completed. :)

Maybe stick the helmets away from the sniper path so someone can't just spawn -> grab -> pwn sniper. ?_?

Good fps performance too, don't need a game-saving map like this getting rattrap lag.

[Million]

A helmet is something that I don't focus on unlike the 50. If it is on my way I'll take it otherwise no. I don't want to loose 5 secs just for 25 armor. For example on des3 I don't loose time to take then unless I've time to loose or their are on my way (on shine for example).
In my opinion their place must be on a way, not in the corner of nowhere.

I actually don't know if in 1.2 25 amors change something (ex 5->6 ammo) if it is the case their role could become important.

[ExodusS]

Watch out for stairs, attacking upstairs is easier than downstairs.

If on a way there is upstairs, there will be downstairs on the other way because yes, this is something unfair.
And I had to choice between a simple symmetric gameplay and an axial symmetric gameplay, I choose the 2nd gameplay because like up/down, you have to aim at right and left and this is also something unfair.

---

Maybe stick the helmets away from the sniper path so someone can't just spawn -> grab -> pwn sniper. ?_?

Good fps performance too, don't need a game-saving map like this getting rattrap lag.

About the helmet, yes it's a very good idea but if the sniper way is very long (like ac_shine), maybe a helmet at the perfect center would be a good option, like that snipers can not block the path.

About FPS performances, I will try to do my best but I don't use to abuse of mapmodels, in contrary, in some cases, mapmodels can be modified and this allow the vision trough it (and it's an unfair advantage, near the cheat) so I will try to limit the use of mapmodel that affect the vision.

[Oracle]

Nice idea, good luck to you. I'm up for testing if you ever need it.

[BigGunZ]

Nice idea.

I'd just stick a helmet very close to each base, basically like des3. Unlike 50 or akimbo, nobody is going to risk not having cover to get a helmet.

[Waffles]

The helmet would require testing. In my mind, having them in base for the sniper path would have the most advantageous use, and would stop sniper vs sniper complete ownage with the current balance, then again, that may be really fucking annoying. My other thought is to have it near the ar/smg path, with a 50 splitting each side evenly so that initially, its not a huge help against ar, but with 50 would grant some added protection for a push toward base. Ill think of it more when i have more time

Great idea and id be more than willing to help any way i can

[Mr.Floppy]

-Can the overuse of different textures affect the FPS?

Well, in general the amount of textures sure has more or less impact on the perfomance. Though, from my experience with playing AC on crap computers the amount/resolution of textures doesn't make a big difference.

Keep that WQD low, do not use water and only place as much light entities/mapmodels/detailing as needed, in order to avoid bottlenecks.

[ExodusS]

Here is the idea I had about the gameplay.



*Fences like ac_power, i mean fences like this:

Spoiler

[Cemer]

layout reminds me of shine

[PhaNtom]

Aren't those fences just like ac_cavern...?

[BigGunZ]

So the fences prevent anyone from getting out of the center area?

[#M|A#Wolf]

So the fences prevent anyone from getting out of the center area?

There are 2 levels on this map.

[Ronald_Reagan]

I would be wary about having two kevlar. I would think that there would be more helmets than kevlar.

[ExodusS]

I would be wary about having two kevlar. I would think that there would be more helmets than kevlar.

Kevlars are for large areas, visible from the base and with a hard access, taking it would make your offensive slow and taking it before entering in the enemy base would make you vulnerable.
Plus, ac_shine (that is a kinda similar gameplay) offers more kevlar (2 kevlars (1 very easy to get) and 3 helmets) for a smaller map.
And don't forgget that the Carabine and the Sniper will be stronger against armors (piercing shots), the SMG is also stronger, the shotgun is stronger if you aim well, average balance is more powerfull, and I think I must answer to this by offering 2 kevlars and 2 helmets (it's not that much).
Of course, the map will be tested in match and we will see if we must change something, don't take this picture as the final gameplay. :)

---

So the fences prevent anyone from getting out of the center area?

There are 2 levels on this map.

Fences will allow players from the bridge to see/shot this area only:

Spoiler

[AtoMikK]

Nice idea.

I would like to test it, if you need some feedbacks.

[Marti]

nice! i'll happily test it if you need me

[ExodusS]

[19:17] <SKB> i'd say wider exits out of base would be nice
[19:17] <SKB> put pick ups like armour in places where one may be damaged
[19:18] <SKB> create control zones

[Mystered]

The picture about the gameplay seems nice, makes me want to try it ^^ Good luck for the map, great idea. And i hope it will be made official if you do the map well ! however you'd have to release it before 1.2 is released i guess ofc :>

_________


it is possible to modify fences to be able to shoot throught it isnt it ? What about these ones, would a modification to the mapmodel make a huge different in this case ?

[ExodusS]

it is possible to modify fences to be able to shoot throught it isnt it ? What about these ones, would a modification to the mapmodel make a huge different in this case ?

I think damages are server sided, the server knows the map, the modification of the mapmodel will allow you to see trough it but your shots will not count. If you modify a fence to see trough it, I don't think it's a good advantage because you can already do it a bit.

[Luc@s]

it is possible to modify fences to be able to shoot throught it isnt it ? What about these ones, would a modification to the mapmodel make a huge different in this case ?

I think damages are server sided, the server knows the map, the modification of the mapmodel will allow you to see trough it but your shots will not count.

No
AC servers don't perform such checks.
And you can't shoot through something that is not transparent.

[Mystered]

I do think its a big advantage, for example on werk, imagine fences werent there, it'd we much more easy to kill from long range ^^

[Undead]

go look at iceroad1.1 and steal ideas from it.

[ExodusS]

I do think its a big advantage, for example on werk, imagine fences werent there, it'd we much more easy to kill from long range ^^

But the mapper could put some walls instead (walls like on ac_keller RVSF base).

[Mystered]

I see what you mean, but that was just an example. On ac_power or on your map, it would be a huge advantage to have no fences at all, compared to fences where the amount of hits you get is usually under 50% of the value of hits you would get without fences.

[Waffles]

The main problem with using those walls instead of fences would be that it's an overpass i gather? and you want there to be able to be exchanges from both paths? i think it'd be too hard to shoot through, but would be an interesting way to keep tabs on different routes which may make gameplay more interesting than if you couldnt see through the walls (fences rather)

[ExodusS]

The main problem with using those walls instead of fences would be that it's an overpass i gather? and you want there to be able to be exchanges from both paths? i think it'd be too hard to shoot through, but would be an interesting way to keep tabs on different routes which may make gameplay more interesting than if you couldnt see through the walls (fences rather)

I will try to make some little holes with solid walls, and yes, the middle room will be more than a shortcut from one base to the other one.

[Cleaner]

FYI Not long ago at Bukz request I have reworked that fence model...

The initial point was to get rid of the ugly zfighting.

Spoiler

A few unsuccessful attempts to fiddle with the original model led me to create a 'full' 3D model from scratch.

Spoiler

Compare now the 2 images below (left = original , right = new)

Spoiler

Spoiler

As a result not only it will look better but the shooting through will also improve in accuracy.

Sorry for having kept that one under my elbow, the plan was to come up with the full set of fences but the other ones (especially the one with the door) are way more complicated to make this way.

I will make it available asap via SVN but keep in mind that although it will replace the original fence model it may end up with a different dir path (cfg converter will fix that later on)