More official maps, or less official maps?

[paulmuaddibKA]

My post is eliminated, but so many others offtopic no?
LOL, talk about moderation issues...
I will contribute to the matter:
While discussing, bear in mind about adding gemas to the "moar maps" wagon, thanks.

[Oracle]

Lol moderation ftw.

I highly doubt GEMAs will be added. Although for different reasons, they're probably in the same lot as dust2 and the like.

[V-Man]

There will be some small de facto consideration made for gemas, but not here.

[Waffles]

Really it made be made overly complex. I wouldn't mind Undead speaking for me on this issue at all personally as he is far more qualified. If you want to get these clan members together to discuss I don't think that would cause an issue at all. I also think it'd be beneficial to actively tests these maps within a realistic setting. I think xenon's post was largely overlooked, probably for lacking detail. I think Larry is opposed to the idea of running a tournament for this, although he is more apt to speak on that regard. However, it would interest anybody, I could organize test matches with willing participants to run an ongoing play-through of maps. The problems that occur is it takes awhile for players to get quite used to the intricacies of a map to determine which maps are advantageous. I could submit demos for consideration as well as have the participating players give their feedback. The only issues I see (and obviously there may be more) are; team coordination (teamspeak, consistency of skilled teams versing each other), analyzing demos (which dev is willing to spend the time to not only examine anecdotal evidence, but also watch how each map plays), the actual use of doing this (will it actually help). If action is what is needed, then the people here should take action. When in doubt, play the game. Anybody interested or willing to lend their hands and suggestions can PM me.

Some maps that have been unmentioned so far (or maybe i've just missed their mention)
ac_swamp
ac_forgotten
ac_crane

there are many more somewhat viable maps i'm sure. Is there still a community map package available somewhere or can I just not find it?

[#M|A#Wolf]

Someone posted a thread with a .zip file filled with custom maps if I'm correct..

[Link]

Yes. I'll look and try to find it Wolf.

[Xenon]

I went around about 50 ac_ maps last night and i found about 10 which would be really nice to be in the next version.

ac_venganza1.1
ac_base
ac_africa
ac_hq1.1
ac_ore
ac_cavern - PLEASE THIS ONE, such a perfect map.
ac_palenque
ac_fort1.1
ac_avenue1.1

[pwnage{TyD}]

Apollo maps. Especially:

Desertcity
Arabicnight

[paulmuaddibKA]

Hahahah, now I remember I already hinted at this happening, check it out!

My over 9000 cents:
All of the clan structure in AC needs a revamping, Id like to see a clan leader council.
(If I knew pic editing an awesome pic would follow showcasing the AC famous clan leaders (as player models) around the council desk of LOTR motion picture).

XD

[Roflcopter]

My suggestion is that we give someone competent enough to make the hard decisions, such as Undead or Waffles, control over the map selection. That person is then responsible for taking on board community opinion but ultimately makes the decisions. It has the benefits of having a firm direction from a skilled mapper who understands the game at all levels well.

[RAMPAGE]

My suggestion is that we give someone competent enough to make the hard decisions, such as Undead or Waffles, control over the map selection.

It's too big responsibility for just one person, and I think one person (whoever he or she is) cannot be given that power.On the other hand, group of experienced players could do the job for us.

[Undead]

on another note

why are symmetrical maps not encouraged? is it more fun to play on an asymmetric map? i think having a really well designed symmetrical map would be fun to play on

probably because nobody has made a good one. i have no idea how it would play out in AC. the other thing is a little bit of bias on each sides helps to make the gameplay more interesting, as long as the map is designed well for it. if you want a good solution towards ridiculously biased maps just make 7:30 halves in CTF and other modes(for public as well). larry did this something like 6 months ago and it didn't take him long to do.

on another note, just because a map is balanced(shine, sunset) doesn't mean it is designed well. many things on shine could be fixed to make it less bullshit, especially the ridiculous design of the mid section and akimbo/armour placement, but its still relatively even. obviously some maps are more guilty than others. desert3 however i think plays out very well, but it is hardly balanced at all. it allows for gameplay that isn't possible on other maps.

i can draw up a list of maps that have the potential for official status as well as maps that need to be changed and a vague description of what can be done about its issues.

i'll do this because it seems most people just aren't sure, so i'll set something in concrete.

It's too big responsibility for just one person, and I think one person (whoever he or she is) cannot be given that power.On the other hand, group of experienced players could do the job for us.

probably because you cant fathom the responsibility yourself.

[MerCyKiL]

only official maps should be: desert, desert3, depot, shine, snow, scaffold.

[Aekom]

if you want a good solution towards ridiculously biased maps just make 7:30 halves in CTF and other modes(for public as well). larry did this something like 6 months ago and it didn't take him long to do.

There will be a new mastermode doing this exact thing.

A mastermode for clan matches specifically. Every round the teams play 7.5 minutes on CLA, after which the scores preserved and teams flipped, where they will play 7.5 minutes on RVSF. At the end of it all the team with the best score wins that round. If both teams have to play an equal amount of time on both sides of the map each time, there are no biased maps.

[V-Wifey]

I think we've come to a consensus here, and everyone has done a great job of contributing to this discussion for the most part. people have studied the maps this week and made well thought out posts for this discussion, you're making a difference, thank you. Now the "ball is in our court" so to speak -

Top ways suggested to move forward:
1) Open a privet forum for those who have enough knowledge to contribute - already in the works 2 weeks ago, should be opened today or later this week. (this is not to say that everyone can't have a hand in the discussion, but the conclusions should be taken somewhere else to sort out finer details.)

2) Take the lists provided here and make a poll on a third party website that will allow for more than one vote to be made per question, so everyone can get their say on every map. Discuss them among your clans, IRC groups, through PM and submit a top 5 (?) list of maps to be INcluded and a top 3 (?) to be EXcluded from the next version.

I suggest they be submitted by PM to someone like V-Man.

3) Undead has already been in the works of finding permission to edit things, make lists, and has dev support to submit them and hash things out on a deeper level.

Those who have been chosen to discuss these development ideas should know who they are by the end of the week. As for the rest of you - don't fail on this, you're making a difference. Let's make our lists amongst our clans and go forward!

AC foreva!

[paulmuaddibKA]

1) Open a privet forum for those who have enough knowledge to contribute

IMO, everyone should have access to that forum, even though not everyone would be able to contribute.
Is that what is planned?

[Undead]

i've fixed the iceroad rework up to a playable level(as people seem to be wanting to test it) as im happy with the layout at the moment, and ive uploaded it to: http://www.mediafire.com/?be951oq5cboaae3
this isn't the final revision and is a beta version

if you want to help to the best of your ability, organize an inter or a clan match on the map regardless of skill level(preferably with the use of teamspeak or a similar program) and pm me demos on the forum. you could also test it out on a public server but i'm already very confident it'll play fine on pubs regardless. i'm also open to any criticism of the map but not on the level of detail or the lighting, its rather basic in parts at the moment. i'm more concerned with the layout and how the game flows on the map.

on another note, as people seem to be bringing it up, ill state my own opinion on what maps should and shouldn't be removed.
- arid needs to be removed, to fix it would mean completely changing the map to something completely different with a ridiculous amount of work.
- aqueous does not need to be removed, the problems in it's layout in my opinion are easily fixable, and if the map wasn't so uneven it would be a great map.
- douze needs its flag spawns removed and to become unvoteable in team modes. it is only a 1vs1 map, and gets a really bad rep because of its appearance in public servers. also, the ffa spawns need to be fixed to be less ridiculous, with no spawns in the bottom area.
- snow is fixable if the CLA base was completely redesigned into a larger area, and pickups were better placed. otherwise it should be removed.
- keller needs either an overhaul akin to iceroad's or to be removed completely.
- rattrap should be unplayable in team modes, but i don't think it necessarily needs to be removed, as i think it plays well in 1vs1.
- scaffold should stay, it just appears to be underplayed.
- toxic should be completely removed, the layout makes absolutely no sense at all, the map is biased beyond repair, and it is more disgusting than a million rattraps i hate it.
- urban needs a serious rebalancing or to be removed, it only gets playtime because of its bias and hasn't picked up the rep aqueous has. the map was never designed for ctf, rather it was a tdm map, and just had flag spawns added.


i've also taken the liberty of attempting to test maps that i believe are capable of official status, so far only 3 in 2vs2 and 1 in 3vs3.

ac_nest - map with good gameplay, however some problems need to be cleared up
there is a ledge on the RVSF base that allows cover of most of the map while only showing the head, among other things. i think it should be an official map. i tested it in 2vs2 and it played really well, im not sure about 3vs3 however.
it seems like a really good 2vs2 map, but i think it needs to be tested a bit more, especially in a clan match.

ac_zanka - i really liked the way the map plays out, but the CLA base is designed horribly and is too cramped.
the RVSF base was really well designed in comparison however. there is also way too much shit blocking paths,
as well as some ridiculous camp spots that need to be clipped/removed. overall if these things are fixed it
should be an official map. not sure how well it will play in 3vs3, i doubt it will play well judging by its size(something like gothic) but in 2vs2 it plays superbly.

ac_cavern - the main problem i have with this map is you tend to get caught on everything and there isnt enough room to move throughout the map. if the map was a bit more level then it would be more playable in ctf, but at the moment it is way too cramped up. the layout however is great and it flows fine. in its current state it shouldn't be an official map.

ac_venison - i think its a great map for 3vs3, but the main issue is that the map is large and the sides dont interconnect at all while having sight of each other, which could be fixed. as with the other maps, it has little things that can be fixed. needs testing in a proper clan match.

[V-Wifey]

Update:
Third party survey companies are not efficient enough to handle this kind of bulk. (and i hate the idea of a hundred people making new accounts on a random site to fill it out).
If we keep getting positive feedback such as this thread, then maybe it's necessary to do more of these in the future.

Today I'll be working on a spreadsheet which can be distributed, filled out, and turned back in somehow. Details to follow.

[Nightmare]

@ aqueous, etc.
Once we get the halftime ability, I believe these will be the most fun maps for inters/cm's. More balanced maps will be very similar for the 15 minutes. With arid and aqueous and such, it comes down to who can take advantage of the sexier side better than the other team. And who can keep the game close if they start on the bad side. And strategies changing mid-game. More varied gameplay. :3

[V-Man]

IMO, everyone should have access to that forum, even though not everyone would be able to contribute.
Is that what is planned?

Ron suggested that. We'll probably try it out the way it is right now for a while first.

[Oracle]

inb4 MK.
ac_riverside? A couple versions I've seen are a bit glitchy, so it may need some fixing up.

On the theme of aquatic bodies.
ac_riverdry? TKTF all the way :>

More TKTF
ac_hawk? I think that's what it's called, it's a pretty small map.


ac_dusk is a nice small map as well, seems relatively even and playable.

[Minty]

Stumbled upon this video after browsing this thread:



Great stuff, in my opinion.

Yes, I realize that this adds a TON to the conversation at hand. :>

[Oracle]

Yes, I realize that this adds a TON to the conversation at hand. :>

Not really. Aight, the creator of that video, already voiced his opinions, so don't worry about that ;).
Yes, there are some nice maps in there, but the playability of some of them should be tested first...

[Waffles]

We ran through some today.

Swamp needs some reworking to make it a bit more balanced in terms of bases, but overall is has very good gameplay and is quite fun to play on.

Frontline is a great map but has a lot of open space that can confuse the players. Maybe reducing some of the excess area would make this very playable, but as it stands, it's a bit too ridiculous.

Greenpeace seemed like it would be great, but for some reason there is massive FPS drop for everyone. I'm usually around 700 and was sitting at 350. Undead was at 100 or something.

apollo_arabicnight has good gameplay other than the bases which can be quite absurd to get in and out of. If re-worked slightly, could be very fun.

I'm sure Undead will have more to say, but those were my initial reactions.

Also <3 iceroad rework, makes the gameplay far more interesting.

[#M|A#Wolf]

liking the new iceroad layout, yess for me

[paulmuaddibKA]

- douze needs its flag spawns removed and to become unvoteable in team modes. it is only a 1vs1 map, and gets a really bad rep because of its appearance in public servers. also, the ffa spawns need to be fixed to be less ridiculous, with no spawns in the bottom area.

If you remove flag spawns from douze you will erase a game that many people play. It like eliminating a benign tumor that has grown in your body with the exact same form, uses, and attributes of a cock. It might not be good looking from a perspective, but under the correct light it can make you win millions.*
*Note this is an analogy of shorts to represent an opinion, but the point still stands.

[Oracle]

Strange analogy, but I agree with the idea.
If people in pubs play douze ctf, then just let them play it <_<.

[Misty]

You know, the US government thought the same thing about the Stock Market with all of that economic liberalism, until it went to shit in 1929.

[#M|A#Wolf]

stop with the analogies, they dont compare to playing a map in a video game lol

[Oracle]

stop with the analogies, they dont compare to playing a map in a video game lol

^Seems they went above his head :>