Care to explain me something?

[RAMPAGE]

Your best way to improve is by playing players far better than you.

Hm, i agree to some extent, but most of the newbie teams need to learn basics. And u will not learn basics playing against pros.

[CicloN]

Your best way to improve is by playing players far better than you.

Hm, i agree to some extent, but most of the newbie teams need to learn basics. And u will not learn basics playing against pros.

I agree but a newbie could try to meet some average/high skill player that could teach him somes tricks.

[YourSister]

Undead is right, aliasing is a must if you don't find a clanmatch vs strong clans. The reason is that most clans will refuse to play if you show your real Nickname and tag.

[Ike]

FmC takes on any clans >:O

jkjk, eh yeah aliasing can be useful to the pros, but the noobs dislike not knowing who is better than them xD

[Nightmare]

FmC takes on any clans >:O

jkjk, eh yeah aliasing can be useful to the pros, but the noobs dislike not knowing who is better than them xD

You really don't have to alias yourself. ;)

[Doogum7X]

Undead is right, aliasing is a must if you don't find a clanmatch vs strong clans. The reason is that most clans will refuse to play if you show your real Nickname and tag.

Why would you want to play inferior clans or deceive them into getting their asses kicked in the first place? Does it prove something that I can't see? Whether or not you have the right to be aliased, it just seems like bad form to me. The only way I'm going to play a CM is if they use their real Nick and Tag. If its just a friendly priv, I don't care what you call yourself, but I don't believe aliasing is ever a must nor should it be part of a reputable clans strategy.

[ThePrinter]

Actually I use alias for the oposit thing:

To make sure I dont get this request every 3 seconds: SA cm x2?

[OpenSource]

The above is the correct answer.
Asking a clan for a match using the tag and name "Duck|Donald" when there is no clan called "Duck" is like pissing on the clan you ask for a match.

[Undead]

Why would you want to play inferior clans

when we(oNe) search for a match, we will immediately search for the highest skill clan we can find to play against. most of the time there are no good clans to play against. so, we will go from searching for a match vs LC/MyS/w00p to a match vs mid skill clans, and then when all of them are scared to play against us, we have to resort to going onto pubs/irc and asking people to play us. more often than not, they are also scared. some clans resort to aliasing, but we'll usually just round people up who never play clan matches and just play inters(90% of AC players) and just play against them for practice.
we have no need to "prove" ourselves, our reputation seems to scare most clans into not playing us. this is counter-productive.

a big problem in AC is the lack of clans willing to play clan matches, even clans that played matches in the past at a good level(TyD, DES im looking at you). this decreases the average skill level in AC, to the point where people are completely content with not advancing their skill at all and just shotgunning on pubs.

@OpenSource
saying no to a legitimate clan when you have 6 members on who can play a game is an equally disrespectful act. what the fuck is the point in a clan if you don't even play matches? you can play pubs without the need for a tag, and you can have friends in AC without sharing the same tag.

a statement: if your clan does not play matches, and you want to play matches, round up people with a similar skill level to you and who want to play matches often, give your previous clan the finger, and make your own clan. there is no point in pestering your "clanmates" who don't even want to play the game.

[Snoosnoo]

Lol at this. Undead, you can't really practice against people that aren't of your skill level. You can't experience being pushed back, having to defend, managing your pick ups or what ever on a clan that struggle to kill you. So what if we aren't all high and mighty in clan matches? Christ, it's not every ones thing. You seem unaware that a clan is more about a group of friends than just some people to play matches with. Typical mistake. There is nothing disrespectful about declining a match. If we don't feel we match your level, we're not going to play. You truly learn how to get better in matches by people that are of equal skill to you. You have to find that edge, that thing that will push you forward.. That thing that will make you win by a mere couple of points.

I don't think YesWeCamp meant to phrase it as "You have no right" Of course you do. You can change your nick easily enough. An alias is as equally scary as the 'top end clans' as you like to refer yourselves as, because people under an alias asking for a match are scum. SCUM. GODDAMNITYOURFACE

[Undead]

Lol at this. Undead, you can't really practice against people that aren't of your skill level. You can't experience being pushed back, having to defend, managing your pick ups or what ever on a clan that struggle to kill you. So what if we aren't all high and mighty in clan matches? Christ, it's not every ones thing. You seem unaware that a clan is more about a group of friends than just some people to play matches with. Typical mistake. There is nothing disrespectful about declining a match. If we don't feel we match your level, we're not going to play. You truly learn how to get better in matches by people that are of equal skill to you. You have to find that edge, that thing that will push you forward.. That thing that will make you win by a mere couple of points.

I don't think YesWeCamp meant to phrase it as "You have no right" Of course you do. You can change your nick easily enough. An alias is as equally scary as the 'top end clans' as you like to refer yourselves as, because people under an alias asking for a match are scum. SCUM. GODDAMNITYOURFACE

you've never played a clan match in your life, but that shouldn't discredit your viewpoints, so ill try to discern what you're trying to say through your rage.
i dont alias to search for matches, but i understand why people do it. please re-read my post because you clearly haven't read it properly. heres another example:

imagine if every time you wanted to play a shitty shotgun infested pub game, you weren't able to because there isn't enough people on AC. if you cared enough, you would go to the effort of getting people to play a game, even if they don't really want to. most of the time, and especially during the australian timezone, there isn't enough people on for a 3vs3 or even 2vs2 match. i'm completely fine with people declining my match requests, but its really a problem when you can't find anyone to play, and you really want to play a game of (good) AC. even if we're playing against noobs, it really is better than nothing, and we improve our teamplay and cohesion from practicing against moving targets. the other team can learn ALOT from the match if they analyze what they're doing wrong and what the other team is doing right, rather than losing their shit. this is also assuming that the other team actually wants to improve in AC, if they don't then they probably won't improve anyway. i recall beating the crap out of dyH months ago, and they started showing signs of great improvement weeks later, in terms of aim and teamplay. however since then they've kind of stagnated and lost the motivation to play matches, and would rather play inters, pubs, etc.

on to your point about clans, i explained it before but ill go through it again.
i understand that people join clans for the "community" and "the power of friendship", but you can accomplish this without the need to put a tag on IRC. the only function for a clan really is to play matches together. all the other things that are associated with clans such as playing pubs and inters together, making friends, sharing admin passwords(haha) can be done without needing to have the same tag. ironically, there are many clans in AC that simply exist as glue for friendships between players, and these clans seemingly outnumber the clans that actually play the game.

are you incapable of maintaining a discussion? because you're screaming and ranting on like a 12 year old(its fine if you are a 12 year old, i guess).
we can't have a good discussion if you're going to get extremely emotive over something so childish.

[YesWeCamp]

I agree with you, Undead, when you say that it can be helpfull to a noobmatcher to play a very good clan. I personally like to do that from time to time, but my point was that i just would like to know it. For me its also something to check my improvements. I just dislike it when I have the feeling I'm not being taken seriously by my opponent when they alias (and dont admit they are under alias).

I understand people want to play matches, but think also about the want of your opponent. I see that it sucks not to have a clan that is skilled enough to match at the time you want to play a match. I just think that aliasing is not a respectable solution to that problem. Even though it IS really a problem for you guys to have the feeling that you have to alias yourself to get a match because there is no-one that dares or wants to match you. I see that this is the problem that is behind the alias story. So it would be the best if there would be less aliasing and more clans willing to play matches also against superior skill clans.

I personally am willing to play highskilled clans, not always, but from time to time. I am not willing to play people that pretend to be my level but turn out to be a highskilled clan that is aliased.

[OpenSource]

@OpenSource
saying no to a legitimate clan when you have 6 members on who can play a game is an equally disrespectful act. what the fuck is the point in a clan if you don't even play matches? you can play pubs without the need for a tag, and you can have friends in AC without sharing the same tag.

LOL

If you ask me for a clan match I decide if i wanna answer yes or no, not you!
What the hell is disrespectful by saying "no, i dont want to" or "no, i dont have time"?

Damn, i cant stop laughing about that....
If you mean a clan can ask and the other clan HAS to play then fuck this game and fuck the clans in it (clans that means you HAVE to play when asked)!

I play on the clan im in and my terms, not some random clan connecting to a server and keep bugging me for a clan match.

[Doogum7X]

when we(oNe) search for a match, we will immediately search for the highest skill clan we can find to play against. most of the time there are no good clans to play against. so, we will go from searching for a match vs LC/MyS/w00p to a match vs mid skill clans, and then when all of them are scared to play against us, we have to resort to going onto pubs/irc and asking people to play us. more often than not, they are also scared. some clans resort to aliasing, but we'll usually just round people up who never play clan matches and just play inters(90% of AC players) and just play against them for practice.
we have no need to "prove" ourselves, our reputation seems to scare most clans into not playing us. this is counter-productive.

a big problem in AC is the lack of clans willing to play clan matches, even clans that played matches in the past at a good level(TyD, DES im looking at you). this decreases the average skill level in AC, to the point where people are completely content with not advancing their skill at all and just shotgunning on pubs.

a statement: if your clan does not play matches, and you want to play matches, round up people with a similar skill level to you and who want to play matches often, give your previous clan the finger, and make your own clan. there is no point in pestering your "clanmates" who don't even want to play the game.

Right, you go down the ladder to find favorable clans to play. I get that. But there is a point where playing an intra clan with whoever is available is more beneficial than aliasing and playing an inferior clan. That point is clear cut and in black and white to me. Also, the behavior displayed and the intentional dishonesty that represents the series of actions from when matches are being turned down to switching to aliases to 'successfully' play a match goes back to what I said prior. It's bad form.

I agree that the average level of skill has declined, but I attribute it broadly to development and weapon scaling, not a lack of clans playing matches. Believe me, I want all the shotgunning noobs removed just as quickly as you do. I think there are different attitudes and a big problem is the attitude taken by the uber competitive. Specifically them not being cognizant of the different AC personalities and skill levels and respecting those needs. I'm not saying being uber competitive is a bad thing at all, it helps to create progress and growth. I for one believe the challenge of playing higher skilled players is the way to improve yourself. But not everyone thinks the same way, and that's the way it is.

imagine if every time you wanted to play a shitty shotgun infested pub game, you weren't able to because there isn't enough people on AC. if you cared enough, you would go to the effort of getting people to play a game, even if they don't really want to. most of the time, and especially during the australian timezone, there isn't enough people on for a 3vs3 or even 2vs2 match. i'm completely fine with people declining my match requests, but its really a problem when you can't find anyone to play, and you really want to play a game of (good) AC. even if we're playing against noobs, it really is better than nothing, and we improve our teamplay and cohesion from practicing against moving targets. the other team can learn ALOT from the match if they analyze what they're doing wrong and what the other team is doing right, rather than losing their shit. this is also assuming that the other team actually wants to improve in AC, if they don't then they probably won't improve anyway. i recall beating the crap out of dyH months ago, and they started showing signs of great improvement weeks later, in terms of aim and teamplay. however since then they've kind of stagnated and lost the motivation to play matches, and would rather play inters, pubs, etc.

on to your point about clans, i explained it before but ill go through it again.
i understand that people join clans for the "community" and "the power of friendship", but you can accomplish this without the need to put a tag on IRC. the only function for a clan really is to play matches together. all the other things that are associated with clans such as playing pubs and inters together, making friends, sharing admin passwords(haha) can be done without needing to have the same tag. ironically, there are many clans in AC that simply exist as glue for friendships between players, and these clans seemingly outnumber the clans that actually play the game.

I'm sorry, I understand your example, but its an outlying example of AC gameplay. You make a good case point but that just isn't the case for the majority (more like 1 Std) of AC. When you are scrounging for players during a timezone when no one is on, I agree it gets tiresome and much easier to just alias and get your play in. If there are only enough people for a 3v3 between all of the servers, then its essentially a pub 3v3 or an inter and like I said I don't care what you call yourself during that. However I feel like what you are talking about is tangential to the OP's post. You're citing a specific example that, while valid and arguable, is different from his.

I also have to disagree slightly from your view on the value of clans. More so expand I guess. Clans are formed for many reasons as you talked about, and I agree much of the activity of clans is playing matches. But the bigger picture of a clan should be to improve the game. Camaraderie, connections, and networking all play a part in doing so. Playing matches falls under that umbrella obviously, but isn't the only thing under it. It's to surround yourself with like-minded players to improve the game, whether it be through competitive gameplay, mapping, etc.

Maybe we just need to redefine what an 'official' clan entails, because you are right about the over-saturation of clans that exist but don't bring anything to the table.

[Nightmare]

Doogum, I love every post you have made so far. Seriously. <3

[Snoosnoo]

LOL

If you ask me for a clan match I decide if i wanna answer yes or no, not you!
What the hell is disrespectful by saying "no, i dont want to" or "no, i dont have time"?

Damn, i cant stop laughing about that....
If you mean a clan can ask and the other clan HAS to play then fuck this game and fuck the clans in it (clans that means you HAVE to play when asked)!

I play on the clan im in and my terms, not some random clan connecting to a server and keep bugging me for a clan match.

This.

[Edward]

my English is not really good so I did not read most of the posts above but I know that the best way to improve is to play against much better team than yours.

My previous clan (AOD) was not one of the top clan but I remember how hard it was to find a match against low/mid- clans so I can imagine the difficulties of clan such as oNe. We are playing the same game and we need other people to play with us (even if they do not want to) ...

I remember that with our usual tag the answer was most of the time NO and with a fake tag the answer was "Lets pwn those noobs and post that awesome victory showing how good we are on our awesome forum full of our awesome victories against awesome noobs"...

I do not say that all clans are like that. I know that some clans do not play clan matches at all (or sometimes when they are in a good mood) and I can understand that. We just have to differentiate clans which do not wish to play to be competitive of those who wishes it.

But if a clan refuse on the one hand to play against clans at a good level because they know that they are going to lose and on the other hand agree to play against unknown clans because they think that they are going to win, then it is an hypocritical behavior.

Most of my clan matches as AOD are defeats and that is why I am now able to play against the best AC playerS (even if I am not at their level) and have fun doing it. Being own is da best way to improve.

[paulmuaddibKA]

sharing admin passwords(haha)

looooooooool

My over 9000 cents:
All of the clan structure in AC needs a revamping, Id like to see a clan leader council.
(If I knew pic editing an awesome pic would follow showcasing the AC famous clan leaders (as player models) around the council desk of LOTR motion picture).

[C4rma]

looooooooool

My over 9000 cents:
All of the clan structure in AC needs a revamping, Id like to see a clan leader council.
(If I knew pic editing an awesome pic would follow showcasing the AC famous clan leaders (as player models) around the council desk of LOTR motion picture).

A clan leader council? Really?

[Undead]

LOL

If you ask me for a clan match I decide if i wanna answer yes or no, not you!
What the hell is disrespectful by saying "no, i dont want to" or "no, i dont have time"?

Damn, i cant stop laughing about that....
If you mean a clan can ask and the other clan HAS to play then fuck this game and fuck the clans in it (clans that means you HAVE to play when asked)!

I play on the clan im in and my terms, not some random clan connecting to a server and keep bugging me for a clan match.

i dont understand why you start your post with laughter and then start swearing and carrying on. how do you argue with people in the real world?

clans in AC are based around playing matches together, no matter how much your clan has mutated away from this. i understand doogums' point on the power of friendship, but that comes from playing games together. time to repeat myself(again). despite what you think, you CAN have friends in AC without needing to share the same tag. if you need a tag to be friends with someone you clearly don't have much in common.

i also understand that alot of the players in the game(you) just want to play AC to chill out and play pubs, but you don't need a tag to do that. you're defeating the purpose of a clan if you don't play matches together.

nobody is forcing you to play matches, because if you were being forced you would be playing matches non stop, right? its an accepted truth that DES haven't played a match since i was in it, so people stop asking you lot after the first few times.

Right, you go down the ladder to find favorable clans to play. I get that. But there is a point where playing an intra clan with whoever is available is more beneficial than aliasing and playing an inferior clan. That point is clear cut and in black and white to me. Also, the behavior displayed and the intentional dishonesty that represents the series of actions from when matches are being turned down to switching to aliases to 'successfully' play a match goes back to what I said prior. It's bad form.

yeah, i don't alias to find matches, we get better competition out of picking up random mid skill players who haven't played a match in ages, so that's what we usually do when there is nobody to play.

people who play matches often just get angry at how illogical some players are, and don't understand why they are in a clan if they don't play clan matches, and often will just go and piss them off. i share their opinion.

I agree that the average level of skill has declined, but I attribute it broadly to development and weapon scaling, not a lack of clans playing matches. Believe me, I want all the shotgunning noobs removed just as quickly as you do. I think there are different attitudes and a big problem is the attitude taken by the uber competitive. Specifically them not being cognizant of the different AC personalities and skill levels and respecting those needs. I'm not saying being uber competitive is a bad thing at all, it helps to create progress and growth. I for one believe the challenge of playing higher skilled players is the way to improve yourself. But not everyone thinks the same way, and that's the way it is.

i would attribute this to the way shotgun's are in 1.1. people who are at the top end of skill can't do any better in pubs than people who use shotguns unless they're experienced in killing new players, which isn't skillful at all. bad players can do semi-ok with shotgun and become content with it, without improving at all. hence, we now have very little new players entering competitive play because there is no motivation to get better. i'd honestly just have the shotgun removed if i was in charge, since it doesn't fit AC's gameplay at all, but i'm sure someone could suggest a better solution that makes shotgun harder to use and rewards skill.

Maybe we just need to redefine what an 'official' clan entails, because you are right about the over-saturation of clans that exist but don't bring anything to the table.

there is no such thing. anyone can wear a tag. i definitely agree with you on the over-saturation of useless teams, especially the ones that just exist to make bad players feel "elite"(you know the ones) without getting any better at AC.

My over 9000 cents:
All of the clan structure in AC needs a revamping, Id like to see a clan leader council.
(If I knew pic editing an awesome pic would follow showcasing the AC famous clan leaders (as player models) around the council desk of LOTR motion picture).

do you think before you post? that sounds like an elitists wet dream.

@snoosnoo
@nightmare

19. Do not post ”empty” or useless responses, such as just ”lol”, "+1", or ”cool.” Only post responses when you have something to contribute.

to anyone else who wishes to reply, follow in doogums' footsteps and maintain your composure, and everyone will benefit.

[paulmuaddibKA]

i would attribute this to the way shotgun's are in 1.1. people who are at the top end of skill can't do any better in pubs than people who use shotguns unless they're experienced in killing new players, which isn't skillful at all. bad players can do semi-ok with shotgun and become content with it, without improving at all. hence, we now have very little new players entering competitive play because there is no motivation to get better. i'd honestly just have the shotgun removed if i was in charge, since it doesn't fit AC's gameplay at all, but i'm sure someone could suggest a better solution that makes shotgun harder to use and rewards skill.

Spoiler

Also LOTR related, :p, I like rings... XD

[Oracle]

Big woop (lol no pun intended) you lost a clan match.
I hate to be rude, but people are going to alias, just like how people are going to troll, or cheat, or do whatever the fuck they want.
You can't sanction behavior.

[Snoosnoo]

@snoosnoo
@nightmare

19. Do not post ”empty” or useless responses, such as just ”lol”, "+1", or ”cool.” Only post responses when you have something to contribute.

to anyone else who wishes to reply, follow in doogums' footsteps and maintain your composure, and everyone will benefit.

Sorry. Opensource and I just find it hilarious how you think you can decide what a clan is, and that you think its disrespectful that some don't want to participate in clan matches. UHasNoRight. URDisrespectful. RespectMahAuthoriteeeh.

No, but legit. A clan is what ever the clan leader decides. Whether it's for matches, a socializing group or a mapping clan, or a bit of everything.. it doesn't bloody matter.

When in doubt, blame the shotgun.

[jAcKRoCk*]

When I was in ~FEL~ many times we had games vs other clans, most of them turned out to be bigger clans, who just want to play and enforce the team strategy, an tbh I have no issues with that.

My first CM was vs LC and i learned from that loss, playing vs stronger clans and watching the games afterwards in demos can be very helpful, I've played with Undead a couple times and each time I have learned something new, just by watching him play, so if they choose to use an alias to play, what's the big deal?

A "small" clan can either grow and learn or bitch and cry about it, it depends on the attitude you take things.

[Roflcopter]

Why would you want to play inferior clans or deceive them into getting their asses kicked in the first place? Does it prove something that I can't see?

It doesn't prove much of course and strong teams don't do it for an ego-boost... but simply to get any game at all.

The only way I'm going to play a CM is if they use their real Nick and Tag. If its just a friendly priv, I don't care what you call yourself, but I don't believe aliasing is ever a must nor should it be part of a reputable clans strategy.

Every clan match is just a friendly so I wouldn't sweat the results too much. If it was a league (for instance ACWC) referees may be stricter on aliasing if it's for an unfair reason.

You guys should also appreciate that many games are played by mixed teams (for example me + Waffles play as |BOC| because he's a different team to me) and often change names just for fun.

[tipper|DES|]

While I don’t mind your rather limited understanding of why people join clans in ac Undead, the truth while inconvenient to your rhetoric, is still the truth.

Undead wrote;
"DES haven't played a match since i was in it, so people stop asking you lot after the first few times."


The above just isn't true.

[Sepehr]

then when all of them are scared to play against us

MyS is just tired of beating |oNe| continuously. We're just resting for the time being.

[Xenon]

you only play us when we have a weak lineup and you have a good one - and you play for screenshots, friendlies don't matter. Tournaments do :)

[Sepehr]

Please name your top line-up here and also there are not any tournaments going on right now. MyS is more than willing to attend any proper one and dominate it with its fresh blood.

[Doogum7X]

Since we're quoting forum rules...

6. If you are not browsing in the off-topic forum, don't post something that is entirely off-topic to the thread. Make your own thread in the off-topic forum if you have something else to say.
...
19. Do not post ”empty” or useless responses, such as just ”lol”, "+1", or ”cool.” Only post responses when you have something to contribute.

So how bout we stay on topic and not name any "top line-ups here".

@roflcopter - I agree, almost all CMs are friendly to me as well. But I believe this thread was created specifically for the instances in which ulterior motives or intent to deceive is displayed.