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I have a little problem. A couple of demos landed on my hard drive (don't ask how) of a group of players blatantly cheating. Cast iron proof; aimbots, speed, high-jumping, wallhacks, no-recoil, the lot. The trouble is, the games were on private servers in match or private mode, so there was no way anyone else could join. Is this even cheating?
I'm absolutely certain they're using the same clients in public games, and they are almost certainly still cheating (to a much lesser extent), but the public demos I have are nowhere near what the community at large would call proof.
Revealing the private demos would be a bad thing (they were supposed to be private), but I can't just sit on my hands when there are players out there that I know are cheating. I'll happily CBL (Central BlackList) them if you can all trust me and that's the general consensus. Please discuss, so I can draw a conclusion and decide what to do...
(These players are not noobs. They're not major names either, but some of you will know them.)
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10 Sep 11, 01:01AM
(This post was last modified: 10 Sep 11, 01:10AM by OpenSource.)
Please BAN them.
People modifying/using cheats no one wanna play with.
Even if this happens in a private server.
As i see it this happens on the main AC master server and the devs has pretty much cleared it out, no cheat.
If you dont wanna blacklist them here on this forum, can you please provide me with IPs so i can remove them from my server?
Thanks.
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They chose to play where other people would have access to the demos of their games.
If they truly wanted a completely "private" game, they would have made their own server to cheat on.
I would post in the blacklist thread.
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That's reason enough to be blacklisted and as you said, they probably use those hacked clients in public games.
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Do anyone of these players own or administrate the server they used?
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10 Sep 11, 03:13AM
(This post was last modified: 10 Sep 11, 03:16AM by OpenSource.)
Do not know what you are "looking" for with that question, but i do not like the sound of it.
Cheating on a server connected to the master server is cheating no matter what.
If this server is modified some how making stuff DEV dont want on master server the server and people cheating should be removed.
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I say yes. A cheater is a cheater.
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WE MUST BAN THE CHEETERS FASTER THAN THEY CAN RUN
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10 Sep 11, 06:18AM
(This post was last modified: 10 Sep 11, 06:20AM by XFA.)
i see no problem with cheaters playing on a private server, honestly i have no problem with people cheating unless its noticeable
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I'd much rather them be banned, as if they use the cheats in a private server, they might/will use them in a public server.
If they are not CBL'd, may I have the IP's in order to keep them away from my servers?
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Ban them Jamz, cheaters are cheaters i don't care if they're in a 'private' server or not!
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why hasn't wolly smashed this yet?
Yes please ban, cheating is cheating. "group of players blatantly cheating. Cast iron proof"
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10 Sep 11, 07:45AM
(This post was last modified: 10 Sep 11, 08:08AM by jamz.)
(10 Sep 11, 02:45AM)Mael Wrote: Do anyone of these players own or administrate the server they used? Yes and no. I have demos from more than one server. One is a regularly used match server.
(10 Sep 11, 03:13AM)DES|OpenSource Wrote: Do not know what you are "looking" for with that question, but i do not like the sound of it. I can see the point of Mael's question, OS. If they put up the server as somewhere to get together, they may not have been completely aware that it would be publicly accessible.
Quote:If this server is modified some how...
I have no reason to believe the server is modded.
(10 Sep 11, 06:18AM)XFA Wrote: i see no problem with cheaters playing on a private server, honestly i have no problem with people cheating unless its noticeable I'm sure this is what a lot of players may be thinking, since this is the situation we face anyway. In a recent pub game with one of them I felt I was being cheated, but there's no question that the accuracy was making me think hard about how I should play, to avoid being killed too easily. It was definitely a challenge.
For all of you saying 'ban them', this is what my heart says too, but I have to think for the whole community, which is why I'm asking.
(10 Sep 11, 06:34AM)Mai Mee Tur Wrote: ...If they are not CBL'd, may I have the IP's in order to keep them away from my servers? I can't decide. Hopefully this thread will make up my mind.
edit: Please, if you feel the same way as XFA, say so, or PM me if you'd rather.
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10 Sep 11, 08:10AM
(This post was last modified: 10 Sep 11, 08:19AM by Aekom.)
What ever happened to the 'right to be considered innocent until proven guilty'? If there is no clear evidence that they've used cheats in a public match, why do we assume that they will?
Maybe there's a chance that they were only experimenting between each other, but were never planning on playing in a pub game. Who knows...my point is that we can't ban people on the assumption that they'll commit a ban-worthy offence without solid proof.
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Or to show cheats without imply to use them at all in public match
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I think it's a big disrespect for those server owners that theses players have cheated on their servers. Other thing would be if they had made their own server and cheat there... So I think it's up to those server owners do they wanna ban them and I'm pretty sure they do.
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10 Sep 11, 11:00AM
(This post was last modified: 10 Sep 11, 11:05AM by MykeGregory.)
I would post a BL.
the client should NOT be modified. private game or not, cheating is cheating.
cheats are cheats and must be dealt with acordingly.
And, FYI Jamz, i trust your every desicion, i'm sure you will do the right thing
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10 Sep 11, 11:10AM
(This post was last modified: 10 Sep 11, 11:11AM by paulmuaddibKA.)
Well, wasnt there a thread not so long ago about this guy who hacked a client to get access to the computer of whoever downloaded it? The "cheater" swore it wasnt for hax but for getting to know the cheats and out of curiosity. Thats a case you should look into before taking a decision! Anyways, if I ever installed a cheat client it would be a matter of time until I got to "try" it on a public server under a false name. This people have shown that they 1st know how to install them and 2nd their willingness to use them. Its a matter of time until they use them in public, IMO, because: "with great power comes great responsibility". But maybe it was ONE of them who instigated the others to play cheats for lulz. I would ban them and politely ask them to further discuss on the forums. There we will see the truth emerge.
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(10 Sep 11, 06:34AM)Mai Mee Tur Wrote: I'd much rather them be banned, as if they use the cheats in a private server, they might/will use them in a public server. You can't just assume that. Maybe they're more likely to cheat on pubs, but you don't have proof.
(10 Sep 11, 03:13AM)DES|OpenSource Wrote: Cheating on a server connected to the master server is cheating no matter what. So "cheating" on a server that's listed on the master, but private/password-protected, is so much worse than cheating on an open, but non-listed server. Now which one is easier to get into by accident?
(10 Sep 11, 12:48AM)jamz Wrote: I'm absolutely certain they're using the same clients in public games, and they are almost certainly still cheating (to a much lesser extent), but the public demos I have are nowhere near what the community at large would call proof That remains to be seen. You should really show those demos - if there's even the slightest indication of them cheating on public servers, I guess everyone will be with you.
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Given that the AC community relies so much on trust to allow fair and competitive games to take place, I think the names of anyone who is known to have used a cheat client should be made public so that others can decide for themselves if they think those players are still trustworthy.
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^ikr.
Show demos for proof they did it on pub server <3
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(10 Sep 11, 08:10AM)Aekom Wrote: What ever happened to the 'right to be considered innocent until proven guilty'? If there is no clear evidence that they've used cheats in a public match, why do we assume that they will?...there's a chance that they were only experimenting... There's a pretty simple 'proof' that defeats this argument, although it's not conclusive because you can probably disable the cheats completely.
1. Plays for months using 1.1.0.4 (The client version is shown in server logs).
2. Plays with blatant cheat - client has changed to 1.1.0.3
3. Now plays in pubs with 1.1.0.3
If the cheat client was only for 'experimenting', why keep using it, even without the cheats enabled? Forgetfulness? Davitomon tried that excuse, until it was pointed out to him that the client he was using presented a menu of the available cheats when it was started.
(10 Sep 11, 12:30PM)tempest Wrote: ...You should really show those demos - if there's even the slightest indication of them cheating on public servers, I guess everyone will be with you. Well, that's the big problem. We're talking about the kind of adjustments that simply cannot or will not be seen by most players. Does anyone remember Cipe from June? Lots of people were coming to me, with and without demos, asking if he cheated. I watched about half a dozen in a few days, and I could not be certain of any aimbotting. He later admitted his cheats to me. The 'obviousness' of his cheats was only being 'felt' by experienced and highly skilled players, rather than being seen.
I'm now in the same situation Brahma was in when he was statistically analysing demos. He knew they cheated, but he couldn't prove it to the wider community, so he gave up in the face of a backlash when high-profile individuals were labelled. I'm not going to reveal names when there's the possibility that I'll be ignored, or worse, by many players. If the argument that it's OK to try cheats in private wins, then these players have done nothing wrong and deserve to keep their anonimity.
At the moment, I'm going with "Do nothing". This thread actually got the result I intended; one of them contacted me. He explained that he'd never used the cheats against anyone but his friend (for what that's worth) and that he would be removing the client. He wasn't the worst offender, and I'll keep watching him and the other two, but I'm hoping they'll go clean. The opinions are leaning towards "Ban them", but it's clearly not a black and white issue.
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I say, if they use a cheat client anywhere they should be banned! How many times have we all heard the same old crap "I downloaded it to see what it would do", "I only use it on private servers", "I would never cheat", "I didnt realize I was using that client".
Meh! we all know the rules, and to be honest I dont care who it is cheating = banned and I would expect the community to be just as hard on me, although i would never give you any reason to be...
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10 Sep 11, 05:00PM
(This post was last modified: 10 Sep 11, 05:07PM by paulmuaddibKA.)
Well if any of those individuals have a bit of dignity they would post in here and show the community they are to be trusted by admitting their wrong in public. Like so:
BLATANT CHEATER SAYS : "YEAH, I downloaded a cheat client and played with me friends and I am not afraid of saying so in public because I have nothing to hide. I never cheat and will never do, except for this occasion."
If they have nothing to hide thats what would work for me.
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(10 Sep 11, 05:00PM)paulmuaddibKA Wrote: I never cheat and will never do, except for this occasion.
The thing is, we've all heard this way too many times.
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I trust jamz's decision. As long as we monitor them, it'll be fine.
However, I don't think jamz should release his identity, as the majority of the forums is really harsh on these guys. So if he does start again, I'd vote F1 to CBL'ing
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(10 Sep 11, 04:04PM)jamz Wrote: There's a pretty simple 'proof' that defeats this argument, although it's not conclusive because you can probably disable the cheats completely.
1. Plays for months using 1.1.0.4 (The client version is shown in server logs).
2. Plays with blatant cheat - client has changed to 1.1.0.3
3. Now plays in pubs with 1.1.0.3
If the cheat client was only for 'experimenting', why keep using it, even without the cheats enabled? Forgetfulness? Davitomon tried that excuse, until it was pointed out to him that the client he was using presented a menu of the available cheats when it was started.
Well, as im a n00b player there could seem theres nothing into this for me so I should leave professional people to deal with it. But I feel that it seems in the many games Ive played there must have been someone, that guy or that other one, I would have defeated, or at least competed against, if HE was playing fair. And it makes me a bit angry.
For me this last text from jamz explains it all and these people, as i said earlier, should expose themselves and be fair with all of us. But I also feel comfy because theres someone watching their asses and IMO, if from now on they fail to keep up with their actual gameplay its irrefutable proof of their cheat usage. Jamz as its your decision its a good one as it is. Thanks to all of you that keep cheaters away from this beautiful game!
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