Public CBL

[Mael]

Only 25 votes so far and it's hardly a majority.

[eftertanke]

Yah. It's still a majority. I have a feeling it will continue to be.

And I have a feeling no one will ever give a specific reason why it should be kept a secret.

EDIT: Windows does not dictate what I can do with my computer.
Nor does my Motorola dictate who I can call.
You should not dictate who can play on my server.

You do dictate, and since I know you will continue to (and I accept that) I should know WHAT you are dictating.

[Mael]

nvm..

[ExodusS]

When someone is CBL , he must know that he's in.

[eftertanke]

Then block them from the masterserver. Not my server.

[Gibstick]

Then block them from the masterserver. Not my server.

That kinda defeats the entire purpose of the CBL.

[Mael]

nvm...

[Gibstick]

Huh?
[17:48:37] <Luc4s> if you cbled you can't : 1) join MS. 2) join a server connecting to the MS

Also, JGAN just confirmed the above.

[vern]

I see this thread being used for nothing more than to have a post count increased.
Nothing productive is being discussed. Just a bunch of grade school arguing, you stole my pride!

[eftertanke]

No. You do block them from getting to my server. And if you do that, I should have a right to know WHO you are blocking.

If I had been the only one that wanted it, and no one else did, I would have let it drop. But that's not the case.

[Mael]

My understanding was that was not the case. That you could connect to servers regardless if you know what you're doing. Maybe that has changed.

Should server owners be required to publicly display their blacklists?

[eftertanke]

Regardless, as a majority wants it made publicly readable, I stand by it.

[vern]

Super awesome incredible epic unreal story BRO!

[eftertanke]

I feel that yes, server owners should be required to publicly display their blacklists. And if a majority agrees then they should. If not, oh well, poo on me.

Have none of you ever heard of lawsuits against ISPs that refuse the provide lists of what they block? I'm sure I have.

EDIT: Someone on IRC told me I sounded like I was threatening legal action. Lol of course not. There'd be no case. It's an example of how people have said "If you want to block access, fine. But I have a right to know what you're blocking"

Transparency builds trust. Players that trust an admin make a server more fun when the admin makes decisions down the road.

[Lantry]

I would like to ask why you want to see the CBL. I had never really thought about it at all until this post, which is why I voted 'I don't know'. The only reason I have seen is that people should be able to see if they are blacklisted. "Transparency", whatever that means, isn't really a reason. I trust the devs enough to keep out the worst of the worst, and the individual blacklists should take care of the rest, the day-to-day events. As for "the majority", AC isn't run by a majority, it is more of a single-party system. The devs run things, and the devs choose who the new devs will be. The only influence the majority has on them is that if they do things people don't like, the people will leave. I can't see the future, but I can't see too many people leaving AC because they can't view the CBL. After all, they haven't yet.

[eftertanke]

Many people have left because of decisions like this in the past.

I think this is just another brick in the wall. I also think that this community will end up being hurt more by these kinds of attitudes than they know.

EDIT: As far as why I want to see it? Transparency is a perfect reason. Just because you trust the devs doesn't mean I should. Nor does it mean anyone else should. If someone asked to see the blacklist of a server owner I have a hard time believing they would so frantically argue that it would be devastating, either way. But a central blacklist is a much more important list; the CBL touches everyone who hosts a server, everyone who plays on a server, and everyone who reports someone.

There's no reason for information like that to be kept so secret, and the transparency it's publication would provide is a means, not an ends. So is it's censorship. But the two respective ends will be different from what the devs may think.

[Lantry]

I think you are making this more of an issue than it should be.
Here is what I see: "the majority" will click yes on the poll, but most of them don't care that much. The devs won't implement this, and it will be forgotten in a week or two. There is no reason to get so worked up about this.

[eftertanke]

I wont forget. And there will be other people that wont either. No, this one issue isn't a massive deal. But as the number of incidents like this keeps growing they will keep growing.

I've already said this is another brick in the wall, and I think that was a perfect analogy. And if that means I'm going to become the next shunned voice in this community then I'll leave. Bye.

[Viper]

eftertanke, can I ask what specific purpose knowing this information will do to enhance the overall play of the game? Right now it just seems like this is all about a principle instead of actually being something of significant value.

*Cue rant.

edit: I abstain from voting. No definitive evidence for either side.

[Gibstick]

eftertanke: bye

[Ronald_Reagan]

Possibly just post the names and reasons? Not the ips, because do you really want the IPs?

[Brahma]

So, this is my "bye" message for you, eftertanke.

We (the developers/maintainers) believe we can block any scum from contacting the MS in the same way any server owner believes he can block any scum from connecting to his server.
As far no server owner is forced to make his server blacklist public, we do not think we are forced to make our CLB public.

I know you contributed a lot for this game, and I respect this... but you are ignoring 4 years of troubles we had with this scum we are blocking.

END.

[jAcKRoCk*]

It's quite irrelevant, who can benefit from from that? The community? I don't think so, most of the People that play this game doesnt even know of the existance of the bl most likely they don't have a clue of the CBL.

Who would ever need to look at that but the devs? If they are there your server it's safe right? Hence you dont really need to know who's there, you are already protected from them.
Those are my 2 cents :)

[DrauL]

But Brahma, even though you are a developer, you are from the place with the largest amount of cheaters. You personally can't say "4 years of troubles we had" because you havn't been on the dev team for four years. Have you? So shut your face and let a real developer speak their mind eh? You develop a closed source product for an open source game. Doesn't that negate the open source nature? Yeah i am flaming but i dont care. Brahma, the community has had to deal with a lot of your shit for a while and personally, i have had enough. Go be a dictator somewhere your wanted.

Im already at 50%, I dont care about your warning points.

[Foo]

But Brahma, even though you are a developer, you are from the place with the largest amount of cheaters. You personally can't say "4 years of troubles we had" because you havn't been on the dev team for four years. Have you? So shut your face and let a real developer speak their mind eh? You develop a closed source product for an open source game. Doesn't that negate the open source nature? Yeah i am flaming but i dont care. Brahma, the community has had to deal with a lot of your shit for a while and personally, i have had enough. Go be a dictator somewhere your wanted.

Im already at 50%, I dont care about your warning points.

The fact that Brahma is from Brazil is irrelevant (are you retarded?). The amount of time Brahma has spent on the development team is irrelevant. How are "real" developers different from "imaginary" developers? You said it yourself. The masterserver is closed to the community (although, in my opinion, there is no real warrant to this precaution other than whoever upkeeps the masterserver blacklist having an ulterior motive to keeping it closed). The masterserver and the game are completely separate. You remind me of an immature hipster quasi-revolutionary. Brahma is not a dictator. Just because some of the changes you didn't want to happen occurred at the same time that Brahma "joined" the dev team, does not mean that you should begin to blame him for them.

Draul, just fucking grow up. You aren't a good player, you act like you are, you don't contribute to the game at all, and you're in general a whiny bitch.

[Blue_Pr!nt]

nice post foo.
draul, we got no issues, but that is over stepping the mark, some diversity is needed here, equality and the work brahma done got him to the dev position.

the game is multiple devs, no one dev should be blamed for anything. live and let live dude. i have lost the focus of this thread tbh, the CBL is of interest but not of user to people, yes the principle of transparency would be great(!!!) but its not a necessity for everything (CBL) there is more important things that would do better being transparent

[Luc@s]

This thread is going nowhere. Everything was said.
I close it, it might be temporary, if another mod wishes to open it.