Upcoming Release Balance Discussion (SVN)

[Jason]

I just remember Fra vs Legacy, i was @Carabine on ac_mines against Xenon Sepher and Jason, and we won. :p

lol. back in the times of the old religion maybe.

[CharlyMurphie]

The CARBINE not| carabine,= which is a mountain climbing tool or cheap version key ring is not in discussion. If it's damage is reduced to 50 like I have heard then it should be met with a 15 clip for sprinting and jumping in certain spots on certain maps this would be very effective. Its damage shouldnt be decreased at all. 40 CAL BULLET IS NO JOKE :)

---

Call me B}abyMurph - carbiner apprentice

Soon to B} B}etter <3

[jamz]

Please excuse offtopic reply, but I think it's understandable that some French players (and other nationalities?) use 'carabine' - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabine_militaire

[CharlyMurphie]

I was not aware of that. I typed carabine and came up empty on first 2 google pages my apologies. Wasn't trying to be rude or condescending, just ignorant

[Cleaner]

Also off topic...

Please excuse offtopic reply, but I think it's understandable that some French players (and other nationalities?) use 'carabine' - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabine_militaire

Actually word 'carbine' comes from the French name 'carabine'.
The climbing device mentioned is a carabiner (not carabine) but odly enough this object in French is called a 'mousqueton' which is the ancestor of the actual carbine.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Grand_Turk%2836%29.jpg
Dunno when it all got mixed up though.

Bell has rang, class is over! See you all tomorrow, the subject will be 'The advantage for snails to be hermaphrodite'.

[paulmuaddibKA]

Call me in when you impart about "Inconsistencies on Monetary System" XD.

[DrooL]

Talk about bad timing! <:o I just got here and there's already going to be another version coming out soon... Sounds like fun though. Could be better for me so I can catch up to everyone in the next version >:)

[tempest]

I just got here and there's already going to be another version coming out soon...

Don't worry... when we talk about "soon" here, we mean something like "within the next 5 years" :P

[Mai Mee Tur]

Pretty much, it was 1-2 years for 1.1 to come out

[DrooL]

Ahh, ok cool. That gives me enough time to train sniping, Carbine, SMG, and AR.

[V-Man]

Call me in when you impart about "Inconsistencies on Monetary System" XD.

Ugh, don't get me started.

[Orynge]

Pretty much, it was 1-2 years for 1.1 to come out

It's already been over a year. XD

[SiL3nT]

Guys

I don't want to be a douche or anything, but the game is suffering.

Arguments stating that multiple weapons are being used are completely off. In the past, yes smg and sniper only were used, but they were two different classes, two different game styles, two different opponents.

Now, all I see is AR or smg. Same class. Same style. Same sprint. Same opponent. EVERYBODY IS JUST PLAYING COMPLETELY IDENTICALLY.

What brought me here were demos I watched from 1.0, where people played with different tactics and the game was open for creativeness, competitiveness and fun; the amOunt of fps didn't define the skill of a player, the creativeness did.

And, if you say that pubs are a big part of Ac, you are being rude to the game itself. Ac isn't made for pubs, the play style in matches (sometimes felt in pubs) is what makes it unique and playable. Anybody will laugh if you show them a public game of assaultcube, but some will realize the creativeness behind it all in matches.

I've loved this game since 0.23, when I found mtiplayer something new opened. Please, put the sniper back, not improve it, put it back in. Thanks

[Vanquish]

Now, all I see is AR or smg. Same class. Same style. Same sprint. Same opponent. EVERYBODY IS JUST PLAYING COMPLETELY IDENTICALLY.

Agreed.

the amOunt of fps didn't define the skill of a player, the creativeness did.

This sounds fantastic, coming from somebody who struggles to ever get over 100fps. And you say my AR is "godlike", pffft. I envy you and your 700fps D:

[Felix-The-Ghost]

I get like 12 FPS on this computer :o

[DrooL]

I get like 12 FPS on this computer :o

Windows 98 ;D

[V-Man]

Now, all I see is AR or smg.

And shotgun. And carbine. And sniper. And pistol. And akimbo. And grenades. And that gosh-darn blasted knife.

[Mai Mee Tur]

I see every weapon actually.

And there was an AC .23...? /:D

And the sniper is still in, I have no clue what you're talking about mate

[#M|A#Wolf]

Only weapon that I don't see so much is the carbine tbh. Only player that I can recall using it as their main weapon is Charlie. I know plenty of snipers, and obviously many SMG'ers and AR'ers, and the shotguns are all in pubs.

[RCJD]

Only weapon that I don't see so much is the carbine tbh. Only player that I can recall using it as their main weapon is Charlie.

NOOBICUS TOO :D

anyways, I've been trying to improve on my AR lately, but I have read in this thread that it might get nerfed O_o

would you guys recommend me to focus on snipe technique? Then again, who knows when the next release will come d:

[SiL3nT]

Now, all I see is AR or smg.

And shotgun. And carbine. And sniper. And pistol. And akimbo. And grenades. And that gosh-darn blasted knife.

Re-read my post ffs. It's used in pubs, which, tbh, are a disgrace for 2012. Try getting them into matches ;)

You don't accept cut-quoting in the quotes thread; so why do you do it yourself?

Wolf: the big matches of the big clans only ever include AR, one SMG and no sniper. See for urself.

[Mai Mee Tur]

Silent, what're you talking about? MyS Snipes, or at least a few of them do, M|A has Sace, who snipes, and then there are a few others

[Habluka]

Arguments stating that multiple weapons are being used are completely off. In the past, yes smg and sniper only were used, but they were two different classes, two different game styles, two different opponents.

This isn't exactly true. Just because smg and sniper were most common, doesn't mean they were the only ones used. Take for example people like MorganKell, who pretty much only used shotgun in matches, Drakas, who found times to rape with every weapon including AR and shotgun, and other people from notable clans. There were far more than 2 choices as each weapon had it's own purpose, so the argument about how you would only be able to pick sniper or smg to be taken seriously is completely wrong.

Now, all I see is AR or smg. Same class. Same style. Same sprint. Same opponent. EVERYBODY IS JUST PLAYING COMPLETELY IDENTICALLY.

This, from what I've seen from public games and a couple scrims from the past few months, seems true, but I doubt that this is actually the case as there are always people who will innovate to be better than others, but I'm probably not one who should be talking about this as I am pretty detached from the more competitive side of things right now.

I would like to point out that in the inters that I've played in during the past few months (not very many by the way), I only saw sniper, ar, and smg, but smg was for the most part only used by people who stopped playing a lot after 1.0 like me and were just deciding to randomly start playing again. It would be nice to see someone use AR in a unique way, make good use of shotgun, or even find a practical use for nades even though pickups only give you 1 now.

What brought me here were demos I watched from 1.0, where people played with different tactics and the game was open for creativeness, competitiveness and fun; the amOunt of fps didn't define the skill of a player, the creativeness did.

I would have to really disagree with you right here as back in 1.0, I would be forced to use different computers from time to time. On some, I would get ~40-50 fps, while on others, I would get factors of 10 higher, and I would definitely say that frame rates played a large factor. When I joined iOD after playing this game for a couple weeks on a laptop that was pretty bad for gaming, I was pretty terrible, and I stayed terrible for a long time, until I eventually got a decent computer, at which point I started actually being able to improve. It's true that there were some very good players who played on complete shit computers, but it was very rare for most people with bad hard ware to get to a point where they were anything more than decent at best. While it's true that 1.0.4 was released with a fix to a problem stemming from frame rate that has shown up again with the 1.1 releases, people with high framerates still had an advantage compared to those who would get 40-50 fps.

And, if you say that pubs are a big part of Ac, you are being rude to the game itself. Ac isn't made for pubs, the play style in matches (sometimes felt in pubs) is what makes it unique and playable. Anybody will laugh if you show them a public game of assaultcube, but some will realize the creativeness behind it all in matches.

This is something that I would have to agree with now. With the end of 1.0 support and hi-skill, pubs have turned into a complete joke, but this wasn't always the case. Towards the end of 1.0, a lot of games in public servers were essentially inters as most of the more casual players left with the first releases of 1.1, and the hi-skill ladder that Drakas set up was able to allow for public servers that actually were commonly populated with very good players. The problem is that when hi-skill was taken down, there was no real replacement that came close to having the website's aesthetic appeal or the overall server quality that you would get from servers like sol(the hub), idis, or loki. After this though, pubs devolved very quickly into just random people playing ctf on douze or other bullshit maps/modes in 20 person servers, so right now, the only way to get a good experience out of AC is to play in inters or cms.

Overall, I would give your post a 7/10 as you are able to point out some places that have been causing problems, but some of the explanations aren't exactly correct. The general point of pubs being dead, the lack of apparent uniqueness in playstyle with different weapons, and an overall decrease in quality, though, is pretty much correct.

When it comes to fixing these problems, I have my own ideas.

For fixing the problems with pubs just being retarded in general, I think that the best course of action would be to hard cap the maximum number of clients connected at something more reasonable like 14 and to take out the flag/team spawns on douze. Another thing would be to have guidelines similar to the ones Drakas had for hi-skill, where if a server followed them, it would be at the top of the server list, but that's just my opinion and the general enjoyment that most of the player base gets from tosok and ctf on douze and other things of the sort shouldn't be ignored as the devs want their game to be successful, which will only happen if more than members of 5 or 6 clans are able to enjoy the game.

When it comes to the uniqueness in playstyle of various weapons, I honestly think that the best course of action would be to use the values from 1.0 for the sniper, shotgun, smg, and ar, but that's just because I have had more experience with seeing people experiment with that build than the current one when it comes to those weapons. Maybe, if the ar becomes a little too weak, it would be a good idea to cause it to sort of pierce through armour, so it still does a decent amount of damage and has its place in the game if people don't want to just use it to abuse its decent range and mobility boost.

The main way I can see the quality of the actual game improving in terms of how well it runs would involve taking out the anti-cheat system, which in the eyes of most people would seem really strange since cheaters are bad and should all be publicly burned alive. The only way I would see this actually being accepted by the community is by creating closed binaries that are the solely accepted binaries on all but some modified servers, but I'm not sure if this would cause any backlash from the modding community. The main reason behind my wanting this is when everyone is forced to use the exact same build in order to play on certain servers, those servers will be free of people using hacked clients and many of the performance problems brought about by a system that is meant to detect cheats would not be present at all. (please don't ban me for this statement as I do not hate brahma or his anti-cheat system and I do not cheat or enjoy playing with cheaters)

thanks for reading this and considering my opinions on the case.

[Ronald_Reagan]

Another thing would be to have guidelines similar to the ones Drakas had for hi-skill, where if a server followed them, it would be at the top of the server list,

New sort option (default), quality. Factors in things such as ping, optimal server slots, players, and the guidelines talked about above.


Nothing in that post is bannable or warnable btw.

[V-Man]

Re-read my post ffs. It's used in pubs, which, tbh, are a disgrace for 2012. Try getting them into matches ;)

AssaultCube would shrivel up and die if pubs stopped happening. This "disgrace" is how everyone started playing. D'you know why pubs are still awesome? Because people in pubs still use all the weapons. Yeah.

You don't accept cut-quoting in the quotes thread; so why do you do it yourself?

I sincerely apologize if you feel I've misquoted you and defamed you. I was just trying to illustrate that you not seeing a variety of weapons is more a result of not looking in the right places than the weapons having a problem. If you really think I maligned your reputation by quoting you out of context, hit the "report this post" button.

Wolf: the big matches of the big clans only ever include AR, one SMG and no sniper. See for urself.

When was the last time you played w00p, DES, #M|A# or MyS? You might happen to only pick matches against people who prefer AR or SMG, but each of these clans actually does have impressive snipers.

What are you really getting at? You're a sniper, and you want more sniper perks? Just say that instead.

[Nightmare]

Several B}'s use the Carbine. :)
and I think a few 'pros' from some other clans have mentioned they use it too.

cough 40 damage & true semi-auto for next carbine gogogo cough

[SiL3nT]

Seriously. They maybe have skilled snipers, do they use them, NO. Lordzz from MyS, a player of a creative mind and demanding eye played the sniper for four years. WHAT HAS HAPPENED NOW? HE PLAYS ASSAULT RIFLE! TAKING AWAY ALL CREATIVENESS, JUST BECAUSE THERE'S NO ROOM FOR IT. This was just an example of your, formerly stated, skilled snipers.

My point is that, this game is here because of the large amont of creatitiveness that can be put in - may it be mapping, modding, playing... - if you take this away, you'll not have a community this big. Listen, if maximize map restrictions, restricting the tower maps, remove douze and don't improve the gameplay; there will be no pubs anymore, trust me. All that's holding the pubs up are custom maps and old players.

If you still don't get my point - think; how many people's matches have u demo'd from other, good, players that you watched and analyzed compared to the previous version?

If you still dont get it: my predictions are that the popularity will decrease dramatically with the next version; considering thr SVN.

My advice - give the game back to the former players and take it from the teenagers who influence it after 3 months' gameplay; just like Drakas complained.

[Mai Mee Tur]

I still play sniper :|, Sacerock still snipes when the occasion calls for it. Are you blind son?

"If maximize the map restrictions, remove douze, and don't improve gameplay, there will be no pubs anymore, trust me. All that's holding the pubs up are custom maps and old players."

The map "restrictions" are there to help to the game, which it has done. Removing Douze can only improve the pubs, since there won't be 20 odd servers with the exact same map. Gameplay is fine, unless you mean weapon balance, at which point I'm seriously starting to believe you're pushing sniper. Custom maps? eQ's servers run plenty of custom maps, as well as some other clans'.

UNLESS of course you're referring to the @camper, twintower, "Insert random noob map here" as being the ones who're holding up the pubs.

Old players do hold up the pubs yes, but you forget there are just as many new players who do so, maybe more. What is your definition of an old player?

"If you still dont get it: my predictions are that the popularity will decrease dramatically with the next version; considering thr SVN."

I think popularity will more or less stay the same or increase.

"My advice - give the game back to the former players and take it from the teenagers who influence it after 3 months' gameplay"

SO you're basically saying to give it to the one's who RQ"d out of the game, or the one's who are butthurt that there favorite weapons aren't top anymore.

The "former" players are former for a reason, not because this game is "going downhill."

Length of playing does NOT mean that someone's opinion is worth less, ffs. THe ideas and opinions of someone who's been playing for 3 months, vs. the opinion and ideas of mine, (I've been playing since 1.0.0.0" should both be taken into consideration equally.



Edit: Sorry if someone has a problem with my cheap quoting, I'm hung over and couldn't be arsed.

[SiL3nT]

I'm not starting a flame war here, I'm just stating the obvious.
50% of AC play only douze and tower maps. 40% play the game once. 10% play matches. That makes 60% happy. Start map restrictions, as you said, delete about 82% of the active players. Gg. Don't question the statistics, I've done enough research.

You can let the sniper usage point go, as you clearly can't comprehend it, maybe u use it and one other guy does; do they have a chance vs MyS?

The popularity point was a prediction, don't question it.

You'll have to read between the lines to understand the last point about former players. Pretty dumb to think a player playing this creatitive game for 3 moths understands its story and can evolve it better than an experienced, ey?

Overall, stop going around the box pinpointing small details of my posts, we all know what has happened to the game, just that, after reading this thread, no one has noticed what is missing; the creatitivness.

[Mai Mee Tur]

That's not really the obvious. Show us where you get your stats. Map restrictions are already there. You took my sentence out of context. Delete 82% of the players? Why?

I already said the sniper usage, and why would basing it off MyS be a factual basis for how good someone is at sniper? You're skirting around my points made with variables.

I honestly think someone who has been playing for 3 months might be able to look at it better, in some cases. All the decision can't be left up to the old player.

Creativeness, in my opinion, only really applies to mapping.