Posts: 148
Threads: 4
Joined: Jun 2010
Following my earlier accusations that Thorite has been using a wall hack, Brahma requested that I posted a set of video clips indicating the sections in the demo that I felt were suspicious. I have put together a set of clips here. As the quality of the video is rather limited by the tools I have for making these, they serve more as a tool for finding the same parts of the demo yourself. I have also provided descriptions of what makes me suspicious in each case. Please limit any responses to disagreements about my interpretation of the demo, rather than insults and claims that Thorite is too well respected to hack.
Posts: 684
Threads: 36
Joined: Jun 2010
Ty for your post, Bloodsport... it is far easier to just point than to work some hours making such videos to try to prove such accusations.
But I still think you are doing the same mistake I did almost a year ago. Wallhack needs to be much more obvious than this, imho.
Posts: 141
Threads: 7
Joined: Jun 2010
But how would a skilled and knowledgeable player be detected than if this isn't enough. Bloodsport here took a lot of effort to get his point across and after reading your comment he is probably smashing his computer now. I used to think wall hack was walking through walls but i guess it's also seeing through walls. I guess Thorite must be monitored if Brahma insists it's not solid evidence, but Blood does have a point with suspicious actions.
Posts: 890
Threads: 16
Joined: Jun 2010
I don't see anything in those videos or the demo itself.
Posts: 141
Threads: 7
Joined: Jun 2010
29 Jun 10, 09:45PM
(This post was last modified: 29 Jun 10, 10:51PM by pwnage{TyD}.)
I think you have to imagine all the walls see through walls in the eyes of the player in the demo in order to picture the hack
Posts: 890
Threads: 16
Joined: Jun 2010
ffs Knife, don't post that command here.
Posts: 148
Threads: 4
Joined: Jun 2010
Mael, if you don't see anything suspicious, could you provide me with a demo showing a different player with similar behaviour to the things I pointed out on the video clips?
Posts: 890
Threads: 16
Joined: Jun 2010
I'll do you one better. Here's eight demos of me playing LSS. I'm certain you'll find the same behavior in myself and others in most(If not all) of these demos.
http://www.filefactory.com/file/b251547/n/Demos.rar
Posts: 141
Threads: 7
Joined: Jun 2010
Alright Ill call it the "unsayable command". Sorry bout that Mael- didn't know it was THAT big an issue,
Posts: 63
Threads: 3
Joined: Jun 2010
I've said this many times before and I'll keep saying it, I have never nor will never hack.
In the other posts where you accuse me of hacking, you say that my time spent playing and reputation in the community has nothing to do with me hacking or not. It has plenty to do with it. First off there is no reason for me to hack, as you may know =RA= died and it is between this time and our revive (yes we are back) that the this demo was taken. Why would I start hacking if we were trying to restart the clan, it would most certainly keep us dead if that were to happen. So, then you say that there is no risk to me hacking because I have been doing it all along. If that is case then there would be other demos out there, or cases where I wouldn't be able to reproduce the same results. No body before this accusation has brought up any evidence to support this though.
As for the videos you posted where I am "obviously hacking", that's just my play style, years of experience, and little bit of luck.
In the First Scene: "He also takes a position where his aim is on the wall, not the doorway while he is waiting. This is very risky as he does not know exactly when the opponent will emerge." - Bloodsport. This is talking about the part in the video where after I shoot someone I go next to the wall and keep my aim straight. Yeah, that's logical. You see, to me that's the best way to get someone in that situation. Instead of looking at the doorway, keep your aim pointed up the stairs because there is a greater chance someone will be there because the path is longer.
Scene 2: "Thorite stays looking at the doorway, but moving his aim around a bit as if he is watching someone move through the wall as the opponent moves back towards the left hand stairs to the RVSF base. " What? I don't even see how this makes sense... I'm moving my aim....omg hacks! ??? I'm just waiting for the enemy to come out. You then say that as the enemy moves along to the bottom garage area I follow him with my aim.... thats strafe running....Then this where I get a HS and I can remember this part perfectly because I thought to myself "ha I was aiming for the other guy" when I was playing, before Brain even passed around the corner I scoping trying to get Hansi, but Brain walked right into the crosshairs. At 0:49 in the video you can see me waiting for Hansi to move into my line of sight, but I back off....why? if he is soo close to where I want him? if I had wallhacks I would have known that and waited longer for him to appear. Then the same thing happens from the first scene, I keep my aim at the wall because when if you were to camp and wait, then go into the right exit it wastes time, you need to turn, and while turning your less likely to hit someone. Keeping your aim straight then moving out gives a better chance to get a hit.
Scene 3: I turn around after I start moving into the rvsf base. Not so suspicious if you think about it. Right before I killed Brain, I killed Hansi, so he will be respawning a little after Brain died. Going back into the rvsf base is like an instinct to take cover, gives me a little time to check my ammo and health, then I return to go into the main area, you can see in the video that my fov can see the window for the building next to cla base (the one with nade pickups) I make sure I see in there because I know someone spawned, then I move forward and look to the left in the safe spot, this spot is where its hard for people in the building mentioned before to see you b/c the stairs into the middle hallway are in the way, and that's when I see the enemy, not through the wall from the corner turn around.
Scene 4: I've already given my reason for this.
Scene 5: What you describe as following the enemy through the way is really strafe running. You can see me doing this jumping up to the boxes then I turn and do it through the window, why would would I look left when I'm jumping out the window, looking right is the best option, its halfway between the rvsf garage and the pathway to cla base. Also the first nade was meant to go through that little window in case the person inside the CLA base was going there. "The nade is also suspicious because Thorite never nade spams. He only throws a nade when he is perfectly sure of the opponents position." did you miss the first minute of the demo? I need spam the pathway to cla base under the bridge.
Scene 6: I pick up nades, and chuck them to the cla pathway under the bridge, also logical, I know someone spawned and probably heard my pick up so I "spam" them. No hit sound came so I look to the right, and oh any enemy is there. If you continue watching that part in the demo you can then also see I was wrong in guessing that he ran under the bridge, it shows me looking to the left as I jump out when in fact he is to the right and below me.
Now it really annoys me to think that the reason you even downloaded the demo in the first place was to get an idea on my tactics then once you see them you call me out as a hacker, when you just can't understand how I play.
Posts: 148
Threads: 4
Joined: Jun 2010
30 Jun 10, 12:06AM
(This post was last modified: 30 Jun 10, 12:43AM by Bloodsport.)
Mael, I have watched those demos. Only the 1v1 cases are useful since in larger games, wall hacks are almost impossible to detect. I see no sign of the use of a wall hack. You regularly spam the wrong doorways and run in the wrong direction. Could you explain which of the features I mentioned in the Thorite videos you think are visible in your demos?
Thank you Thorite for at least discussing my points. In response:
Scene 1:
I am not concerned about when your aim is pointing up the stairs. I mentioned the point where you are aiming into the wall (towards the enemy), but your aim was not lined up to be looking down the corridor. I am yet to see any other player who stares into the wall while waiting for the enemy. It is much too risky, and it is far more effective to back off slightly and get a long view at a slight angle to the doorway.
Scene 2:
My point about the aim moving around is that if you believed the enemy was still in the room, you would have kept your aim still on the doorway as in other cases. However, it appears more like you are waiting for it to become clear which direction the enemy will take (through the wall). The main point of this video is your correct reaction to the opponents change in direction, not that you faced towards him while straffe running. Your explanation for the head shot is perfectly reasonable, but there are only so many times you can get lucky in one game. At 0:49 it looks to me like you back off to gain a better position (despite not yet being able to see the opponent), but then decide to go for the close shot instead. The choice of attack is not important here, it is the reaction to events out of your view.
Scene 3:
Possible, but it is too much of a coincidence that you would change direction at the point that you are facing towards him and where he is deciding between the two entrances to the RVSF base. The directness with which you exit the garage area facing to the side does not suggest the consideration of other possibilities. Taken together with the way you choose the correct direction every time makes for a compelling statistical argument.
Scene 4:
See my final responses to scene 1.
Scene 5:
Although it could by coincidence by your straffe running direction, you approximately follow the enemy's position through the wall just prior to an attack so often that it cannot always be luck. The nade you mention in the first minute is not spam, it is aimed to intercept Brain, and you get him with the second.
Scene 6:
It is extremely unlikely that you would guess the correct direction for a newly spawned enemy in this case given the number of possibilities. It is even less likely that you would choose to randomly spam with a nade since you do not do this in any other cases. You glance left while jumping out of the window despite having the opponent already in view so it is not an incorrect guess of direction. It looks more like you were having trouble getting out of the window.
Posts: 63
Threads: 3
Joined: Jun 2010
I really don't know what else to say then, your just wrong about me hacking. I gave the truth but you seem convinced that the only explanation is a wallhack. It's not, look in other demos of me playing there will be the exact same gameplay. What is seen is acquired knowledge of the map and putting it to good use. And again I will stress this, if I do hack then there are other demos out there that will show it, not just one that has been picked apart and misinterpreted.
Posts: 23
Threads: 1
Joined: Jun 2010
30 Jun 10, 05:21PM
(This post was last modified: 30 Jun 10, 05:21PM by seagal.)
If you spec players better then you (no offense), already suspecting them. There will always be things that might look dodgy to you. And if you make a avi of that with your comment attachted to it, it even might seem like a hack (thats why sort avis are useless unless its about aimbotters). All those avis are just wasted effort.
Posts: 10
Threads: 1
Joined: Jun 2010
May I just join in to say something about this matter.
You see I myself am I caught and blacklisted hacker and I have never thought of coming back here since I know I'm not wanted I do check the forums regular but to my point.
I have to say 2 things that I'm sure can help you convince thorite is just good player.
1.Look at the start of the match the very few seconds where Thorite is running over the bridge and BrainInstructor is under him while Hansi is approaching Thorite from the back. If thorite was using wallhack he would have go after hansi wouldn't he?
2. I didn't checked all the scenes or whole demo just the first scene and that tell me something. Before that first scene thorite was in the same position he respawned on the same place and he waited a few seconds before he started moving he was aiming at the same place like in the first scene waiting for someone to come. And one more thing about the first scene is I watched it at gamespeed of 10 and using fps camera right after he spawned there you could have see BrainInstructor running in the small room just take a look and you will see it was visible that someone was going in there.
I'm pretty sure that thorite was jut careful. Btw I watched the demo with a hack that has a sniper croshair so I could always see where he was aiming at and with wallhack turned on so I could see he never not for just one second looked like he knew where his opponents are. If you want I'm sure brahma can check the demo with this cheat since I know he has and prove my words
I'm sorry if my appearance here is unwanted but I just wanted to help someone inocent and use my hacks for good thing once
Posts: 148
Threads: 4
Joined: Jun 2010
30 Jun 10, 06:32PM
(This post was last modified: 30 Jun 10, 06:45PM by Bloodsport.)
Perhaps someone with access to the posters IP could verify who this is. Being a hacker doesn't mean you know what to look for in a demo, but your comments are still useful.
1. Thorite was already aiming at BrainInspector, so it would be strange to switch to a different target in the middle of the fight.
2. Im not sure what your first point is, but I agree that he can see BrainInspector running into the room. It is what he does next that matters.
3. Watching it with a wall hack turned on doesn't show what is required. I am not claiming that he keeps his aim exactly on the enemy through the wall as that would require an aimbot, not a wall hack. What I do claim is that there are many cases where he approximately follows the enemy through the wall, particularly just before an attack.
Seagal: As stated above, please restrict your comments to discussion of my claims, rather than personal attacks and baseless dismissal.
Posts: 10
Threads: 1
Joined: Jun 2010
The point is that if he was using hacks he would have go after hansi I myself have learned that people that do hack always go to the place where they are most sure they will get the frag. I'm not saying I'm a pro at this but couple of situations have proved to me to be a bit strange for someone using hacks the one where BI jumps out of the window in CLA base and gives Thorite a headshot if thorite was using hacks he would have waited for him but he didn't seem to notice him even when he was able to see him.
my opinion:
i played thorite today, in svn. i noticed that all he did was wait a lot around parts of the map, his knowledge wasn't that sound of timing and it was quite easy to 'get around him' and pick my fights.
i had no idea he was accused before now, and i watched the videos you provided. slow motion makes everything look worse, but i found that he was doing the same here, he is waiting out to see if an enemy will double back. if the player doesnt double back and enough time has passed, he will move on to the other exit, a logical place to find a target, as he has ruled out one option. (this is highlighted in the first videos)
tbh, it just looks like common sense (when coming out of rvsf base and looking left :D)
Posts: 2,841
Threads: 44
Joined: Jun 2010
01 Jul 10, 02:23AM
(This post was last modified: 01 Jul 10, 02:37AM by #M|A#Wolf.)
Not enough evidence. If you will be asking for similar demos to prove that this is a hack then most players simply won't. We aren't demo storing machines and won't take our time to check them. What he did is a common tactic for snipers where they wait aiming at a door, passage, etc. I would say he had luck. He has been playing the game for lots of time, and he obviously has learned his ways through strategy.
In this game, once you realize you have to ALWAYS try to visualize where your opponent could be by sounds and movements you become a better player. Thorite already learned this, and there is really no reason why he would hack since he has collaborated so much for this game and by hacking all that work would be trash. Has anybody realized, that when a player blames a player for a "silent" hack the "hacker" always seems to be more skilled?
I'm not flaming you Blood, but I honestly think that this is a joke. How did you come to this conclusion and how did you come to the decision that he hacked? What I mean, is that in the clips (in where there were apparently 3 players playing) why were you analyzing Thorite? Cause I honestly feel like you just simply looked at some of his demos and tried to come up with anything dodgy or suspicious to bring him to the spotlight. I'm sorry for saying this but I really feel that way.
Posts: 354
Threads: 19
Joined: Jun 2010
I wached the demo a couple of times.
My conclusion: Experienced player who knows the map and can predict his enemys.
There are far too many things happenening that he would definately not do, or do better, if he were using a wallhack.
Posts: 100
Threads: 6
Joined: Jun 2010
01 Jul 10, 11:17AM
(This post was last modified: 01 Jul 10, 11:17AM by R4zor.)
I would feel flattered if I was accused of cheating, do you? :P
I also don't think he's cheating - tbh there are so many examples of when you look at a wall in preparation for going around a corner that could be compared to it.
Posts: 31
Threads: 0
Joined: Jun 2010
(01 Jul 10, 02:23AM)|BC|Wolf Wrote: How did you come to this conclusion and how did you come to the decision that he hacked? What I mean, is that in the clips (in where there were apparently 3 players playing) why were you analyzing Thorite? Cause I honestly feel like you just simply looked at some of his demos and tried to come up with anything dodgy or suspicious to bring him to the spotlight. I'm sorry for saying this but I really feel that way.
As obviously the unanimous decision is that Thorite does not use wall hacks, and everyone seems to come to the agreement that that Thorite is a experienced (and very good player) why wouldn't you want to look at his demos? I know if I face someone really good (and get my butt kicked) I like to take a glance over the demo and see the movement of the player and whatever else you can get from the demos. Also knowing Blood on somewhat of a more personal level then everyone else here, Blood keeps his server very clean of as many hackers as he can and also loves demos. So it is not him just looking for some farfetched spotlight, it is just in his nature.
Posts: 151
Threads: 8
Joined: Jun 2010
Is it fun to explain how brain works Thorite ? =)
Experienced players know where to look and where to aim even if there are none in hes view.
You get a "sense" since you are repeting the same situations over and over and over again.
Many times you might feel that "damn that will look like a cheated" when you manange something "impossible to you" in game.
Im still "new" but it develops certain "knows" the more you play.
I can imagine being 2+ years in this game then it should feel kinda easy to master.
Posts: 3,780
Threads: 33
Joined: Jun 2010
After seeing all this I realized I have a habit of sticking my nose into a corner when I reload. Please don't accuse me of using wallhack if you see me do that! XD
Posts: 123
Threads: 8
Joined: Jul 2010
This is sad. I like how you guys tell him what an experienced player does. O that’s right Bloodsport is new to Assault Cube. It sickens me how you guys treat him in response. Give a little respect to the man even if you don’t believe him. By making jokes and saying how he just was looking through demos just to make an accusation. Does this make any sense to you? No it doesn’t. He wouldn’t risk his reputation to make a false accusation on a known player. People say experienced players can predict where people move. That is correct couldn’t agree anymore. If he isn't going one way he must be goings another. Knowing the enemy and how he plays is also a big help. I do support Bloodsport and you guys could of just said reasons instead of rude and sarcastic responses. The people I use to look up to in here are now all gone. No honor , and no respect. Believe what you want that’s the beautiful thing about this game but the calling out on bloods name is not needed.
Posts: 591
Threads: 19
Joined: Jun 2010
Be patient, there can be other lighter ways how get enemies position. You must compare more demos with him. One is useless. And it has no sense to comment it. You need the players history to show if he uses smart hacks. The best proof is to catch player with hack and without hack. And is he cheater for me? It must decide his best friends in game who play with him that years, i don't know him.
Posts: 1,136
Threads: 22
Joined: Jun 2010
I'd argue with you, but i have only one response that fits the situation.
Posts: 269
Threads: 11
Joined: Jun 2010
I think you're just defending him as a friend. I saw eveidence of a new hack today that puts a box around enemy players and shows them even through walls. Now why can't Thorite be using that? The player in that video aso predicted everything but didn't keep his crosshair on the enemy at all times. The playing style is completely similiar. But wiat, that can't be possible. Thorite is a pro and that player is newbie who is hacking. No no, Thorite has been here too long to hack.
I'm not accusing Thorite, for I still can't analyze demo's properly, but I am saying you need to believe that Thorite CAN hack. Even if he doesn't. There was nothing stopping him and he might've done it.
Posts: 93
Threads: 0
Joined: Jun 2010
ofc that he can hack but in that demo and videos doesn't show any kind of hacks ...
have you ever played depot with the old guys ? if yes you 'll see that they know where you are in the most part of the time ... so it means that they hack ? NO !
just because they know the map very well they can anticipate where you are .
Posts: 123
Threads: 8
Joined: Jul 2010
i agree that a player can predict a person path way
kaz said an example was dept.. well there are only two options to go in depot so becoming a pro at depot is quite easy.
complex however is harder considering more pathways to take.. the chances of knowing where an enemey is going once respond is very hard to predict.
ty lighting for trying to help and be a little supportive... but all its going to get you is spat on by everyone else. i thank you for your courage and for saying what you think.
Posts: 77
Threads: 0
Joined: Jun 2010
03 Jul 10, 10:37AM
(This post was last modified: 03 Jul 10, 12:41PM by pwnage{TyD}.)
Bloodsport quit being a sore loser. Everyone knows Thorite doesn't hack. Just get over the fact you lost and Thorite won. If you would have won the match he supposedly hacked in I bet you wouldn't be bitching about it now. I watched all of your supposed slowed down evidence documenting him "cheating". What you saw wasn't wallhacks. It was a whole lot of knowledge and map experience, he plays ac_complex like an addict does drugs, frequently. And then the other thing I saw was luck followed by general ac skill. You say that statistically he just couldn't be that lucky that often. But who are you to decide what he can statistically be or not. Who are you to create these imaginary statistics? Until I see some detailed research moterf***** I won't believe you. I guess you just can't swallow your pride and admit that the reason he beat you wasn't from cheats. But on a player vs player level in Assault Cube he was just /better/ than you at that particular map and has a higher skill level than you in Assault Cube in general. You should really get over yourself too...
[Insert another hardcore insult here]
|
