Is this forum's moderation failing?

[Drakas]

Drakas, people cuss out at you and nobody cares because no-one likes you.
You could split the forums; for trolling and for mature discussion (pff)

Just hang around in IRC for a while, and if you see Drakas, ask him nicely.

that is, give him a blowjob

No comment.

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So, after this ascertainment of the facts it would be nice if we (and you - meaning the threadstarter) can now accept that other clans have had also their role in AC's history.

That's not the issue.

Although some people can't imagine - the importance of the clan Tear you Down! (as like that of the most clans) isn't that big as like in the 0.93 and the beginning the 1.0 era. Also it is a misconception that we are "close" (or closer than others) to the devs - no, we aren't.

And I don't spread it.

I could trot several examples, but I'm sure that people don't believe me anyway - cause it is easier to hold on their construction of enemy stereotypes, their black-and-white-separation.

Again, not of issue.

PS: Sorry if this becoming offtopic now, but this ongoing grumbling and accusing of the clan TyD! is going on my nerves.

It's really correlation, not causation. TyD posts are only an example, but moderators doing similar things aren't exclusive to TyD. My apologies for being so unspecific.

And for the others out there - there is small line of wisdom for you:
"If you have no idea, it's sometimes better to shut the mouth rather then talking stupid"

That's very true. I hope that people who don't understand what I'm saying don't butt in.

2nd PS: Maybe it is a good idea to close down the "infrastructure" forums and to forbid similar discussions in the others as long the people aren't able to concentrate onto the prime aspect of all of this, which is playing the game AssaultCube.

The community already exists. I recall Gibstick making a post quoting a part from Bloodfrontier: once you start supporting a community, there's no easy way back. Since that's the case, you have to try and get the best outcome possible from the resources available. There is a solution to all the problems of people disliking 1.1, of people disliking the fact that they can't play their public games any more, and also people disliking the fact that the moderators are acting so naively. So, I'll present you with some things first.

Apollo, dont get all mad and defensive.
He simply /implied/ that since anything against you as a clan (TyD) gets closed or deleted nd anything against him isnt. Ive seen this in the threads so dont get all high and mighty bro.

That's more on the line.

There are two TyD mods and two DES mods, + jamz.

There are more, representing pretty much every major clan. I used to be part of this moderation team (actually, was in my own group of Super Moderators) in the previous forum, but a professional disagreement between myself and Brahma was probably the reason why I never got it back.

I dont see why, since w00p is the longest running, and imho the most contributing clan doesnt have a "representative" there.

Couldn't care less.

With all the work on these forums for mods, spam, trolls, etc, i dont see why you wouldnt need another mod.

It's more about representation of power equally. For example, even if I do spend considerable time talking with certain people, me and some of my members still banned them for bad behaviour quite a few times because I/we don't find it acceptable. I try to treat players as equally as I can (although it's not always the case), and only in exceptions do I not do that. Heck, I should've removed quite a lot of people from the ladder for talking shit about me, but I didn't. Why? Cause I want to give them another chance. And I don't want to express personal power over anyone unreasonably (in anger... say, someone doesn't understand what I mean - I do get angry but try not to make any stupid sayings).

It's not about representation of clans, it's about the use of the privileges people from these clans have. Let me explain the issue in more detail: it's not {TyD}, but it's the moderation of the forums, and the {TyD} post removals are only a good example of the issue.

Thread closures/removals:
1. A thread starts off with a topic that none of the important people want to discuss: the thread gets closed, no explanation or reference.
2. A thread starts off with a topic that has already been discussed: it gets closed, with no reference nor explanation. So someone will make another thread about the issue again.
3. A thread starts off with a reasonable topic and then someone starts making personal attacks or trolling. It gets closed, and the offenders get away with it. Anyone offended can't retaliate without creating new discussions and wars.

Often, that thread gets closed and only the moderator has a last say (you, Apollo, are a great example, who posts even after a thread is closed). This offends many other members who have something useful to say and add, and are prevented from doing so. It shows that you have the special right to make a final point and others don't. Example: I think there was an Xu| thread, pwnage closed it, and then Apollo posted afterwards, to give it his last words.

(2): Have a look at this, for example: see here

pwnage{TyD} can open this again if he likes to reply here.
If not, look/ask on {TyD} forum/irc.

Do you see the point I am making?

(1): Xu thread - a {TyD} incident was under discussion there. The blacklist entries there were removed as well. The whole issue was silently taken to the {TyD} forum. How nice.

(2): AC 1.0 / 1.1 threads

(2): Gema/other crap servers: there was a thread about 1.0.4 bad server removal (gemas/other crap): I was writing a constructive point, to give an explanation to the person (ie. those servers often run nazi maps, and it just co-incides), but after spending 20 minutes writing it, I was not allowed to post.. because it was closed then! In the end, the people asking about the server removals were not given a reasonable explanation (or a solution, in fact...). Problem is that this niche was created from 1.0 and from the BS clan. You can't simply destroy and get rid of a community, and unfortunately, I was some of the people who helped destroy BS. Don't you think that making a post "All gema people go here" in the Servers' forum, giving information on how to have their fun without making AC look bad, would do much better instead? Anyway, fact is, that crossed me very much as well as the few people that were making their points. I'm no saint, you know. I do make mistakes, but I'll try and acknowledge and accept them. And there's no black-and-evil, and I don't want to get into some stupid catfight saying who's evil and who's not.


(3): Another great topic, TO ALL SERVER ADMINS: How to be the best Admin Ever!. This started off as a great thread, and in the end it turned into nothing more than disgust. A person spent so much time writing up a guide, and his friend decided to post that link for the benefit of everyone, and it turns out to shit, and the moderators can do nothing but close the thread (instead of removing the offending posts).

(3): 1.0 alternative server list: this thread again was closed, but it seems that it's back open again.

(3): again.... There are, of course, reasons why he behaved like that since his friendlier posts/threads were closed/removed and he was banned for less rude behaviour before that. Track back the thread, and you'll see...

However, the closing of that thread, and this don't get my sympathies, either:

Topic for #assaultcube is “http://assault.cubers.net/ - Get AssaultCube now! - We are P@ndel-less for 7 (count em - SEVEN - jiba ftw) whole days! Paaaartayyyyy! :D”

(jiba here mentioned by mistake, it seems, btw). You know, this is part of the issue.

Come on, you are given such big responsibilities and yet you decide to abuse that privilege and defame someone just like that? I'd expect calm and mature response, but this post, by the same person who set that topic, makes everyone feel like they've lost to bad attitude.

..
One of the major points being, if you have a problem with another clan/player, don't bring it onto the forums. It is not the kind of stuff we want to be showing off to newcomers. Voicing your opinion in a civil manner is one thing, but trolling/spamming your opinions at others in hopes that they will stop thinking for themselves, and just agree with you, is entirely another thing. Let's try getting something contructive done with the forums, eh? Rather than splitting the community even further than it already is?
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About multiple threads/closing: there's a lot of redundancy and it needs to be removed.

In all these cases, only anger is caused. And it's pissed me off too much for me not to say anything.

I'm not making a single personal attack in form of ad hominem, unlike some people here. My arguments are strong enough for me not to require to defame anyone. These people, in my opinion, are an excellent example of why this community is quickly falling apart.

The approach needs to, and can be changed, and I hope the moderators do understand that.

I'm expecting to see some "tl;dr", "you're a dick", and "I'll quote this cause I'm cool" after this, and such behaviour will never be part of this optimistic "Let's try getting something contructive done with the forums, eh? Rather than splitting the community even further than it already is?".

I've told what problems I think there are, explained them, and provided solutions. Hope they're taken into account.