The sniper.

[ExodusS]

I know, most of the sniper elite from 1.0 have probably took the AR or just stopped AC but i just want to go away from the weapon balance discussion and his 41 pages and his 1124 posts.

The sniper was 85 hp.
Now it's only 82 hp.
And (even if it's not finish yet) the next version is looking for only 80 hp.

This poll is obviously public cause i think it's very important to see who voted what (and who will not vote).

This is the question:

What sniper damage do you want on the next AC?

5 pistol bullets, i'm not joking.

[M__Stayla]

I thought they did 83 sniper damage and 17 Pistol damage (Idk if it's exactly 17)?

So it would be 1 sniper + 1 pistol if your enemy has 100 Hp, and as soon as he has 25 armor, you need 2 pistol shots (AFAIK).

But if I'd have to choose one of the possibilitys you listed, I'd take the second one

[ImaCripple]

Second, Porfavor!

[Vermi]

I think it could be balanced if 25 shield stopped it being 1 sniper 1 pistol, but if you had 0 armour you would be killed by 1 sniper 1 pistol

[Lantry]

I think it could be balanced if 25 shield stopped it being 1 sniper 1 pistol, but if you had 0 armour you would be killed by 1 sniper 1 pistol

Sorry, it asked what you wanted, not what you thought would be balanced. :P

[jamz]

ExodusS, you neglected to point out that the SR is the only weapon that gives an instant kill from any range, at any health or armour level (Bonus 1), and gives two frags reward for this skill (Bonus 2!).

[Shorty]

ExodusS, you neglected to point out that the SR is the only weapon that gives an instant kill from any range, at any health or armour level (Bonus 1), and gives two frags reward for this skill (Bonus 2!).

Jamz, even with this point being true it takes a fair amount of skills to consistently do this "instant kill" the average joe who wishes to use the sniper would struggle.

[MykeGregory]

ExodusS, you neglected to point out that the SR is the only weapon that gives an instant kill from any range, at any health or armour level (Bonus 1), and gives two frags reward for this skill (Bonus 2!).

Jamz, even with this point being true it takes a fair amount of skills to consistently do this "instant kill" the average joe who wishes to use the sniper would struggle.

Thats why it takes practise to master the art of headshots.
Well earned headshots should be well earned.
But even a simple hit for a newb can be a struggle against better players so upping the power to balance it should be good.

[ExodusS]

ExodusS, you neglected to point out that the SR is the only weapon that gives an instant kill from any range, at any health or armour level (Bonus 1), and gives two frags reward for this skill (Bonus 2!).

So it means, HS or die?

Hit with 5 pistol bullet is obviously harder to get against a 100 kevlar (who is obviously easyer to get cause of helmet).

[Robtics]

lol, you wouldnt really try to get those 5 pistol hits after the SR hit? I guess in this case a second sniper shot is the way to go ...

( I'm not arguing that the sniper would still be more than a support weapon in this case)

[ExodusS]

lol, you wouldnt really try to get those 5 pistol hits after the SR hit? I guess in this case a second sniper shot is the way to go ...

( I'm not arguing that the sniper would still be more than a support weapon in this case)

So i'll play Carabine.

[Bloodsport]

Even taking into account the +1 headshot bonus, it is very hard to compete with sniper in a small clan match because the automatic weapons seem to cause the player lag to increase when they are fired. This makes it much harder to aim with the sniper. Accordingly, there are very very few players who do well outside public games with the sniper rifle.

[Benson]

As Exoduss said, a lot of sniper-players changed their mainweapon to AR or SMG. (So did I).
If the sniper gets even weaker it's really just a support weapon. Of course, that's "realistic" - but AC will suffer from it. The helmet's make it even worse - on big maps where sniper makes sense, the amount of armor compensates it.

I can't judge about the "weapon-balance" of just one weapon, you always have to see them in comparison. So I'd like to see solution number 2, SMG on 15,5 and AR how it is atm OR solution number 3, SMG on 15 and AR on 20.

[jamz]

...it takes a fair amount of skills to consistently do this "instant kill"...

...So it means, HS or die?...

I wasn't commenting on the balance of the weapons or the skill required. I was simply pointing out that it's not fair to provide weapon stats without including all the facts.

Incidentally, Sniper + 5 Pistol takes 1.04 seconds; the equivalent kill with SVN SMG (11 rounds) takes 0.80 seconds. It should always be slower to kill with the sniper, because of the instant kill possibility, but >25% slower against a fully armoured opponent seems too much to me. See? Not everything I say is anti-sniper.

[Lantry]

it is very hard to compete with sniper in a small clan match because the automatic weapons seem to cause the player lag to increase when they are fired.

If firing your gun too quickly makes a noticeable and game-changing difference, then the only solutions are to eliminate lag as an issue (i.e. make AC turn based, not real time, which clearly isn't a valid choice) or to eliminate the guns that are causing this lag (supposedly the AR & smg).
However, this is not really an issue as the amount of lag caused by firing a shot is so small that the "lag" caused by the first shot is gone (if it ever was there) by the time the next shot is fired.
This is not a valid reason for increasing the power of the sniper rifle.

[Nightmare]

Sniper is hard to balance because it has a huge gap between new snipers/pro snipers.
most snipers get easily overpowered by weapons that can actually kill a full armored enemy.
pro snipers get headshots more than half the time and make the weapon seem unstoppable.

To close that gap, 85 damage + no headshot ability. Haxors(pro snipers) can't run around turning people to dust. Everyone else still has the fastest killing weapon in the game(sniper/pistol combo :D) on unarmored, not counting splats. Not saying I want that but yeah. <3

[MykeGregory]

A sniper with no headshot ability?!
UMADBRO?

[Cactus]

Jamz, even with this point being true it takes a fair amount of skills to consistently do this "instant kill" the average joe who wishes to use the sniper would struggle.

Isn't this the whole point, that the 'average joe' can't make headshots without practice?

[sniperz]

85hp + 1 pistol
:like0.93oldtime:

[VenteX]

:like0.93oldtime:

Or, you know, like 1.0.4-times. Sniper-pistol combo isn't that nostalgic.

[Nightmare]

A sniper with no headshot ability?!
UMADBRO?

Not saying I want that but yeah. <3

UMAD?! <3 xD

[SleepKiller]

With any game their are weapons that have their advantages and disadvantages, and most weapons take time to master, thus you must keep at it until you get it. Any game always will have a weapon that a noob can pick up and kill a pro. But that is a sign you have yet to master the weapon truely.

A sniper rifle is not designed to go into close quarters combat in real life. So the fact that you can not shott someone and then pull out your pistol to finsih them off is realistic. The Sniper rifle is a tool for being half a map away aiming for the head and getting that satisfying headshot. Not for running into the enemy shooting and killing them. The Sniper Rifle is designed for range not close combat, the fact that you can no longer use it as such shows that the game is realistic. Learn to use it at range and improve your aim. Rather than sayyying it is weak, once you master it properly. You'll be one of the most deadly people in the game.

[Lantry]

A sniper rifle is not designed to go into close quarters combat in real life.

The whole post was good, but this jumped out at me especially. A weapon like a sniper rifle does not fit into a game where you can't have open spaces. I don't remember who it was but I recall one of the devs saying that "adding the sniper rifle in the first place was a mistake". I probably just accidentally misquoted a dev and will be banned forever from the forums, but I have to agree with this statement. However, it's probably too late to remove it, and maybe that's for the better anyway :\

[jAcKRoCk*]

The fact is that we can headshot and aim at close combat, but it's ridiculous to hit 5 pistols after swapping from your main gun to kill a mini tank

[SleepKiller]

A sniper rifle is not designed to go into close quarters combat in real life.

The whole post was good, but this jumped out at me especially. A weapon like a sniper rifle does not fit into a game where you can't have open spaces. I don't remember who it was but I recall one of the devs saying that "adding the sniper rifle in the first place was a mistake". I probably just accidentally misquoted a dev and will be banned forever from the forums, but I have to agree with this statement. However, it's probably too late to remove it, and maybe that's for the better anyway :\

Yeah, their are two sulutions.
A. Remove the sniper rifle.
B. Provide more sniping spots.

[jAcKRoCk*]

Why would they remove the sniper? From what I see you never use the sniper, yes it's hard to use, and yes we are in disadvantage most of the time, but when you do learn that it isn't just a range weapon you can own a server (not as much a clan match but still works fine).

The 1 sniper 1 pistol combo wasnt easy to master yet they added another pistol shot. And not only that the sniper "feel" isn't the same since 1.0, another reason why many snipers didn't like it.

[Versace]

If AR is the way it is now in 1.1, I think the sniper should take away 85 damage and 1 pistol will finish them off because I think that will = out the AR vs Snipe in a match, all the AR has to do is gain armor then there going to need 2+ pistols to kill. Also if you miss one sniper shot the AR is most likely going to win anyway, so may as 1 well make it 1 snipe, 1 pistol :) then us old snipers can compete against AR users.
As for now the AR will rape it depending on how you play with your snipe and how consistent you are with it.

[Orynge]

I, for one, don't think the S+P combo should be brought back.
Those scripts in 1.0 were freakin' annoying.

[Shorty]

I think it could be balanced if 25 shield stopped it being 1 sniper 1 pistol, but if you had 0 armour you would be killed by 1 sniper 1 pistol

Yeah i believe this too Vermi.

I, for one, don't think the S+P combo should be brought back.
Those scripts in 1.0 were freakin' annoying.

Awkward moment when the best snipers never used the scripts and simply used a mouse wheel, because it was quicker..

[ExodusS]

Most of the officials maps have helmet in each bases (or front).

Try to keep powerful pickups away from the spawn area so players are encouraged to leave their bases.

Strategy is key!

Helmet in each bases destroyed it.

Where is the awesome kevlar on ac_depot? Nowhere since 3 Helmets destroyed this strategy.

I just remember some great old players saying "keep the kevlar spot on ac_depot and you won the match"

I just remember the last TaS league with so many 0-0 on 3v3 ac_depot certainly the most boring matches i've ever seen.