Upcoming Release Balance Discussion (SVN)

[#M|A#Wolf]

F1.....cause the post was too short.

[CyberKlown28]

Probably the best thing for Douze

is just to delete it and deny it ever existed

Heh. I have to lean in that direction.

Agree...or edit it up into a minotaur's maze.

[Panda]

http://stashbox.org/1059050/bin_win32_6047.zip for the latest windows binaries with the new shotgun stats. Someone push them to svn please.

[Roflcopter]

Although not directly balance, there appears to be an issue with the sniper hitting players even when they miss slightly. I noticed it a while back; yesterday in a bit of testing a few other people noticed it also. Have the hitboxes been made larger or is this a sniper bug?

Many people are saying the AR is underpowered now. Myself, I find both pretty hard to play compared to 1.1.0.4 so I really can't say.

[Panda]

We've played several test games today.

First a weird bug, the sniper shoots through people now, even if it hits - i.e. the bullettrail goes through and hits the wall behind.

Overall the shotgun has improved but it is still clearly not competetive, even on ac_arid, at least in 1:1. I don't know how well it works in publics and if you are a shotgun player (I'm not), but I suggest improving its general strength by about 8 to 15%. The full damage distance is ok now, but I find it a bit disappointing that 1 cube makes the difference between full damage and much lower damage. Also it's a bit strange that with just 1 helmet you are no longer killed from point blank range, hence the suggestion to increase overall damage.

SMG is the best weapon on low and mid range atm, except if a very skilled sniper hits you immediately. It also plays very simple and hits pretty well and accurately. Overall I think it's a bit too strong, except on maps like depot.

The AR is good for its longer range abilities and plays OK but it feels a bit weak in most situations compared to either SMG or sniper. It could probably use a good accuracy boost and/or maybe a slight reduction in recoil so it has a clearly defined role on larger maps like power where you can also use it to rifle sprint.
I often had 1hp left when playing vs AR. I'm not saying that has to change, since it would maybe overpower it.

The sniper is very strong and if I could play it at the moment I probably would play it on pretty much every map. I messed up my aim with it tho (as posted earlier, but I had the same problems in the normal version, so it's me), which means I don't play it. When facing it on depot you have no chance except if they miss. It was very successful even on sunset 3:3 (see attached screens/demo, where Chris and Undead played sniper). So with the new pistol and akimbo stats the sniper could probably go back to 80 or 81 damage.

What I also experienced is that I die mostly when reloading (no I don't use autoreload). Maybe I reload too much or maybe the reload times are just pretty high. I don't know if that should change or not, just thought I'd throw it in.
For example with AR you have to reload after each opponent (or hope to hit the next one perfectly and/or finish off with pistol) and it takes a long time. So one consideration here is to maybe increase the AR clip by 2 - 5 or lower the reload time. All other guns can usually take 2 or more players per clip. (Don't change too much at once for AR tho, I'm just throwing multiple ideas that each could improve balance.)

We didn't test carbine as it is unchanged afaik and I don't see a role for it except maybe on arena type maps (douze) or when playing against many newbies because it does 600 damage per clip.

Here are various demos and screens of today, about 7MB worth: http://www.mediafire.com/?cgt6v9s6tqs3c96

[Lantry]

Probably the best thing for Douze

is just to delete it and deny it ever existed

sorry, but i have to disagree with you there, At least for TDM. imo douze is terrible for CTF, but it seems like thats all it gets played for these days.

How do people think ironsights are "gross"? as long as they are done well, i think they are great, and they could just be the boost that the carbine needs. Right now, they own some very small niches like big games in douze or for controlling the center hall in shine. Of course, i'd really rather have this wait for a later update instead of changing too many things at once.

[Roflcopter]

Carbine would not be substantially different if it did 65 damage and had a slightly shorter attack delay. It might be viable in some clan match situations then.

For instance, I had 2 1v1 games with Shorty where we took turns playing carbine on ac_douze. In each game whoever had the carbine lost against AR. Consider ac_douze should be very strong for carbine, I think it needs some serious work!

I agree with what Panda said about the shotgun. The damage is very consistent with the aim and distance of the player but it's just too low. I think around twice the damage would be about right too.

For instance, I played 2 games against Castiel both on ac_arid. We took turns using shotgun and for both games the player with the shotgun lost. When I played Castiel with the shotgun it was often that I didn't even get him to half hp (and when he played shotgun he often didn't get me to half health either) so double damage really isn't an unreasonable idea.

I'm also pleased to see slightly higher spread for unscoped sniper and only 82 damage now. That said, I agree that 80-81 damage is better still.

[KN!F3]

I think the Sniper right now is perfect- rewarding some players with good sniper hits rather than spraying shotty bullets everywhere. The shotgun is still powerful at close ranges which is what it is supposed to do. AR needs less spread so it works long range especially. SMG=fine. Carbine- 65 damage could work as well but the firing rate is still pretty fast that if you get the first 2 hits in one after the other then its a quick kill.

[Roflcopter]

I think the Sniper right now is perfect- rewarding some players with good sniper hits rather than spraying shotty bullets everywhere. The shotgun is still powerful at close ranges which is what it is supposed to do.

The sniper does reward good aim but puts a lot of emphasis on a single shot. The shotgun needs to be extremely close range for single shot kills though; and two shot kills are hard against good AR/ SMG players when you are close.

AR needs less spread so it works long range especially. SMG=fine. Carbine- 65 damage could work as well but the firing rate is still pretty fast that if you get the first 2 hits in one after the other then its a quick kill.

AR is already very low spread. That said, I'm sure everyone knows I'd like spread decreased in general.

[Darkbee]

Let's try to color inside the lines people... (weapon) balance thread! Just saying.

[CyberKlown28]

Make the Carbine 70, Assault Rifle 25+more recoil on AR to add on to it's rifle sprint/jump job.

[x0v3rp0w3r3dx]

I think is a good idea add a "speed run" with the normal run, example: u push "F" and your char go most quickly with the weapon setted to down. And add a zoom for all weapons, i think it comes preety good :D

[makkE]

Please use the ideas thread for proposals like this.

[CyberKlown28]

AR should be 30 damage + more recoil.
4 hit kill on unarmored might fix it's "weak" status over the normal 5 hits.
and more recoil just to somewhat counter balance the new given power+continue it's rifle sprint/jump power ability.

[CyberKlown28]

AR should be 30 damage + more recoil.
4 hit kill on unarmored might fix it's "weak" status over the normal 5 hits.
and more recoil just to somewhat counter balance the new given power+continue it's rifle sprint/jump power ability.

Am I alone on this idea? :(

[Roflcopter]

AR should be 25 + more recoil.
4 hit kill on unarmored might fix it's "weak" status over the normal 5 hits.
and more recoil just to somewhat counter balance the new given power+continue it's rifle sprint/jump power ability.

Am I alone on this idea? :(

That would be too strong -- but I would like its damage back to 23 or 24 -- 23 if that still gives 5 bullet kills with 25 armour.

[Lantry]

AR should be 30 damage + more recoil.
4 hit kill on unarmored might fix it's "weak" status over the normal 5 hits.
and more recoil just to somewhat counter balance the new given power+continue it's rifle sprint/jump power ability.

Am I alone on this idea? :(

You might be. It just seems way to strong. I'm not sure what it's damage is right now, but i'm sure it isnt a four hit kill. Anyway, the assault rifle as it is already seems solid to me; I'm not sure why people are saying it's weak. Only players who know how to SMG can beat me with it at close range (which is how it should be) and at long range it is decent for taking out snipers, if you are good at dodging while hitting them (which is pretty easy cause they usually stand still)

[CyberKlown28]

@roflcopter. 25 would make it a 5 hit kill on player+helmet armor ^_^' and its already a 5 hit kill normally on unarmored, and I agree with all who said it feels weak. I also don't see the AR much in games ._.

[MykeGregory]

First a weird bug, the sniper shoots through people now, even if it hits - i.e. the bullettrail goes through and hits the wall behind.

halo style? does it continue to do damage past its first hit? if not this glitch needs to be fixed.

[SuperSniper]

First a weird bug, the sniper shoots through people now, even if it hits - i.e. the bullettrail goes through and hits the wall behind.

Nothing wrong with that, it puts a fun tatical spin on the sniper
leave it this way

[Lantry]

@roflcopter. 25 would make it a 5 hit kill on player+helmet armor ^_^' and its already a 5 hit kill normally on unarmored, and I agree with all who said it feels weak. I also don't see the AR much in games ._.

I use it alot, but i guess you're right. Of course, this could be cause they are all using shottys.

[CyberKlown28]

yeah shotgun is ridiculous. I'd estimate 70% of the players in the games I play use shotguns

and added recoil to assault rifle would counter balance the 4 hit kill :D ...or make burst/tap firing amazing/ but yeah. .-.

[Vermi]

First a weird bug, the sniper shoots through people now, even if it hits - i.e. the bullettrail goes through and hits the wall behind.

Nothing wrong with that, it puts a fun tatical spin on the sniper
leave it this way

People like this shouldn't be discussing balance

[castiel]

yeah shotgun is ridiculous. I'd estimate 70% of the players in the games I play use shotguns

and added recoil to assault rifle would counter balance the 4 hit kill :D ...or make burst/tap firing amazing/ but yeah. .-.

I'll say it again, I posted earlier, Have you tested the svn? The shotgun has been toned down, so this is no longer really an issue, unless you're telling us your thoughts of the new shotgun...

I've also seen the sniper bug and had it happen to me, can be very frustrating/strange.

I'm liking the svn so far, the smg/ar seem far more balanced, the ar may not be as much of a killing machine, but it has the rifle jump advantage and I can still see people using it over the smg in matches, so hopefully we will see more variety.

Another rant about the sniper, would it be possible to increased it's unscoped spread even more? As it is just as effective as any other weapon close range, if you run into a player round a corner etc and manage to hit them then the one pistol kill is far quicker than an smg/ar player can react and kill them. It would force players into using the sniper more like an actual sniper imo.

[SuperSniper]

Another rant about the sniper, would it be possible to increased it's unscoped spread even more? As it is just as effective as any other weapon close range, if you run into a player round a corner etc and manage to hit them then the one pistol kill is far quicker than an smg/ar player can react and kill them. It would force players into using the sniper more like an actual sniper imo.

This will also keep people from cheating on osok(some one always makes a reticel)

[CyberKlown28]

xD I was just mentioning how bad it is currently @ the shotgun, not the new one ^^'
my thing is mostly putting the ar to 25+more recoil

[Hav0c]

Yeah, AR should have loads of recoil, since its the main Gema weapon =P
But not too much that its uncontrollable when your pwning some nubz in a pub randomly with it when you could just use the SMG or Sniper...

[bballn45]

carbine 75 damage.
shotgun more damage

new thought: yu should be able to go prone.

new game mode: it would be a team elimination game. you get one life and spawn till everyone else dies. except you get pickups. this would be a good game mode because it would be like tdm and ts combined. it shouldnt be very hard to make either because you just make it by changing the ts to have pickups. post what you think here.

[Hav0c]

What, i've already had enough rawr rage at the carbine at 60 damage. i think that it should be reduced to 50. Shotguns already powerful enough =P I think we all dont want the shotgun to be the new Ar

[CyberKlown28]

I was thinking about boosting carbine's power too but anymore and it will end up taking 2 shots against armor too so eh..