Map-restriction.

[Hellspell]

bukz, im getting the impression that you might be sore because the @camper maps and the like are so much more popular than yours.
But anyway, my opinion is that people should be able to play whatever they want, wherever they want. That's why I disagree with the map restrictions. So far you haven't given me one of those

very legitimate reasons for supporting the map restrictions

you were on about, you have only criticised me. Now rather than continue to do so why not just tell me those reasons?

[Bukz]

Like I said, do your research and I won't have to explain myself, yet again. :)

Btw, I couldn't care less about your impression/opinions, I see right through your type. Troll harder.

[Alien]

1.00 version "there is place for everything but .."
1.1 version "there is place for everything but ..."
1.2 version "there is place for everything but ..."

I listen this song too long time. :P

i must check these limitations which you still present, i have started with math of 3D engines, i am in half, I thought it is harder, after month i will check all implementations, but at the end it still ends in 2d picture whose repainting influence only fps. So maps with water, bigger maps and some open maps have lower fps, they shouldn't hurt anyone !!

[Hellspell]

Like I said, do your research and I won't have to explain myself, yet again. :)

Btw, I couldn't care less about your impression/opinions, I see right through your type. Troll harder.

That's clever, that. The way you're trying to provoke a particular reaction from me. There's a term for it you know, it's called trolling. But enough of that, I guess my attempt to get a civilised discussion outta you has failed.

[Bukz]

Starting the discussion by insulting everyone who disagrees with you by calling them selfish people is a sure fire way to get non-civilized reactions. Don't act so surprised that there are people out there that will give you a taste of your own meds. ;)

Btw:

So far you haven't given me one of those

very legitimate reasons for supporting the map restrictions

you were on about, you have only criticised me. Now rather than continue to do so why not just tell me those reasons?

Maybe you should have read my post before that one, twice, before punching out a reply without thinking.

[Hellspell]

Haha you're still going on about that? Christ if I'd known you would be so easily offended by that comment I'd never have posted the damn thing! Assuming you were actually offended by that, maybe you were just looking to argue.
Either way I've had enough. My opinion is given and that's what I posted here to do, and it's a dull thing arguing when the other person refuses to give a single reason as to their opinion.

[Bukz]

Again, lrn2read.

[JamJamTheCalcMan]

I disagree with map restrictions. They do discourage mappers, and give prospective mappers a hard time to start out. I have saw many players give up on their promising maps because restrictions tied them down, and I have found myself in the very same situation. I haven't mapped in a long time because I don't feel like fooling around the weird, misunderstood map restrictions. I never could pinpoint what it was you were trying to alleviate, whether its height, length and width, mapmodels or pickups.

This is my question. So what if people like @camper, twintowers, headshotcity and the like? Those are the popular maps. If you kill those maps off, you have the potential to kill off your player base. Their is a certain compromise you must deal with. Have a large fan base and goofy maps, or have semi-realistic maps and a small fan base. There has to be a break-even point. This is an arcade shooter after all. If you want a more realistic environs within the AC engine, you should try out ACse. I am more-or-less an arcade person myself, which is why I love this game.

Devs: I realize that you are trying to thwart n00b mappers, but hey, we were all there once. They will start to realize that they want to make maps like shine, toxic and the like. They will try to go pro. Just like I did. We all have that starting point. If @camper is their starting point, so be it. My starting point was a 25x25x10 map, using the entire color spectrum, had 8 towers, a pool in the center, secret passages to the other towers, and not a cube of the skymap was visible. You can't lie to me and tell me that that map wasn't n00by :P

Just some thoughts. I would like to see the restrictions lifted, but hey, I'm just another cubing menace. :)

Sincerely,
A Fellow Mapper

[Lantry]

ok, could one of the devs (or some other knowledgeable person) list what the restrictions are currently, and in the SVN? I have this strange feeling that most of the people arguing here don't really have any experience with these restrictions.
Please don't flame me! I am sure there are plenty of brilliant ideas in that genius mind of yours that are being chained down by the restrictions.

This is my question. So what if people like @camper, twintowers, headshotcity and the like? Those are the popular maps. If you kill those maps off, you have the potential to kill off your player base. Their is a certain compromise you must deal with. Have a large fan base and goofy maps, or have semi-realistic maps and a small fan base. There has to be a break-even point. This is an arcade shooter after all. If you want a more realistic environs within the AC engine, you should try out ACse. I am more-or-less an arcade person myself, which is why I love this game.

If by ACse you mean the Assaultcube special edition, then you are sorely mistaken. Have you even tried that game? Twintowers is in the official maps, for crying out loud.

Devs: I realize that you are trying to thwart n00b mappers

I'm going to assume that you meant they are trying to stop noob maps. I am not a dev, but I don't believe this is their intention. In my last post, I gave plenty of examples of 'noob' maps that are creative and fit the requisites.

, but hey, we were all there once. They will start to realize that they want to make maps like shine, toxic and the like. They will try to go pro. Just like I did. We all have that starting point. If @camper is their starting point, so be it. My starting point was a 25x25x10 map, using the entire color spectrum, had 8 towers, a pool in the center, secret passages to the other towers, and not a cube of the skymap was visible. You can't lie to me and tell me that that map wasn't n00by :P

I believe the idea is to not have their 'starting points' displayed directly on the MS along with all of the maps that have been worked on longer and look much better, not get rid of it entirely.


I would just like to repeat one thing from my last post, since you didn't read that one anyway: just because a map is creative doesn't mean that it won't fit the requisites.

[Viper]

Yesterday I voted ac_palenque on my server in a private match with some friends. Needless to say people who usually have FPS around 500 had 10.

[Bukz]

That is because they probably did not have the custom content (mapmodels, textures, w/e) that the map requires. This huge loss of FPS due to missing content problem has been known for a long time now and is an unfortunate con of the server not being able to transfer the content.

[Viper]

I know :D

I voted it to annoy them. Trust me, you know how much fun annoying gibarix is. \:D

[Apollo{TyD}]

1.
After reading several posts which are claiming that the creating of maps like headshotmegacitytowerspremiumdeluxewithnewtextureswhatever or gemasuperduperdeluxe are the starting poing of any serious mapper career - I was wondering why I have started with maps like this



(which is really crap in my eyes; but it tooks me only to remove one too close set pickup to make it 1.1 ready)

or this



So maybe my next map will just an empty map with tiles textures on all sides and fancy colorful disco lights on all edges. Cause this seems to be a must-have in a mapper's history, lol.

2.
Seriously, too many people here have fun in making a mountain out of a molehill. If the minimal requirements (yes, thats how I call it) would be implemented from the first AC release no one would complain here that much in this hysterical way and maybe some people would be more concentrate in making maps as in talking about mapping. Good for us that several people don't care about this endless discussions (which won't change anything anyways) and are releasing new maps instead - and how surprising: maps which fits in AC gameplay and style concept including these requirements.

So, please chill out. Go mapping. And if you aren't a mapper and never intent to become one or you have been a mapper in the past and lost interest in mapping already a year ago - please don't troll around and annoy the others here. Go fragging. Go to the IRC. Just gtfo.

3.

That is because they probably did not have the custom content (mapmodels, textures, w/e) that the map requires. This huge loss of FPS due to missing content problem has been known for a long time now and is an unfortunate con of the server not being able to transfer the content.

THAT is a problem which should be solved now.

Not that "Ihavegotamessagethatmymapdoesntfitintotherequisitiescauseiwassostupidtoplacetwopistolclipstooclosetogetherlikeapollodidinhisfirstmap"-bullshit

[JamJamTheCalcMan]

Lantry:
1) yes i was talking about the "special edition" but i meant it in a sarcastic manner. its alright, and seems to be at least a little bit more realistic than AC, but come on, its AC with extra code. nothing special.
2)by n00b map, i mean something outlandish. poolcarnage isnt n00by to me. poolcarnage took some creativity. and personally, i like it more than most maps. its no ac_sylang, but its fun. i think ac_deltaforce is an intense map, its not the best one out there, but its a helluva lotta fun. just like poolcarnage is.
3) whats wrong with having first-time maps on the masterserver? my first map, albeit ridiculous, remained on the masterserver for prolly a month, which is decent in my eyes. it was replaced by, what, a new HSC remake or something?
4) i havent checked the new svns, but i dont recall twintowers being in the official maps list in the last one i got.
Lantry, you seem alright, but please dont jump down my throat. you can criticize and dissect my words all you want, but dont make me out to be a fool.

Apollo:
1) i, in no manner, stated that something that ridiculous should be on the masterserver. imho, i don't like remakes, unless they are done very well. i have saw only a couple remakes done well. i generally don't go to maps with a long name like that. i do have criteria, tyvm, im not saying their all great im saying we shouldnt kill off all of these non-official maps off of the masterserver.
2) dont flame on me, and dont make me out to be a fool.
3) do i detect a hint of sarcasm and impertinence? did i say that all beginning maps are colorful? no. i said mine was. it was an example. so shoot me.
4)

So, please chill out. Go mapping. And if you aren't a mapper and never intent to become one or you have been a mapper in the past and lost interest in mapping already a year ago - please don't troll around and annoy the others here. Go fragging. Go to the IRC. Just gtfo.

Have i trolled? no. i gave an opinion. you don't like it, that's your misfortune. Have i annoyed you? probably, same as you have to me. gtfo? dont plan on it. this is my opinion. i dont care if anybody likes it, its my opinion. nobody can deny me from my own opinion, tyvm. did i deny yours? no. i may not like it, but i have the decency to respect it. i don't respect you, however. this is why i am flaming on you atm :)

I really feel as if hard-core mappers are jealous. you spend hours of time, days and days go into your maps, and all this goes into something that gets very few plays, which i admit it sucks, but thats how it goes. oh well, get over it, move on to the next idea.

ok so someone remakes a camper map, and its all over the masterserver. am i correct to say that you are jealous of the camper map creator and remakers, apollo? dont get pissy cause your maps arent on the masterserver 24/7. there are other mappers, after all.

a map being made with the utmost of care and mounds of time put in it isnt a guarantee that it will be popular. you should keep that in mind.

[Huntsman]

Not every person has made maps on different games or has the talent to make an _alright_ map on their first try. "Practice makes perfect"

[Apollo{TyD}]

Apollo:
2) dont flame on me, and dont make me out to be a fool.
3) do i detect a hint of sarcasm and impertinence? did i say that all beginning maps are colorful? no. i said mine was. it was an example. so shoot me.

Did I address you personally? Are you the only one who made maps of that kind? Are you the only one who brought in the said allegation in the several threads regarding the requirements over the time? Nope, I meant it in general.

Oh and yes - there is sarcasm in my post. As in nearly all of my posts. Cause it's unbelievable how ridiculous this ongoing wailing and gnashing of teeth in this community is.

4)

So, please chill out. ...

^That's what you really should do.

Btw, I feel quite confident with the level of popularity I get with my maps. And all of this without making them into the official package or with 24/7 headshotsonlyservers.

So jealous? No I dont think so. But maybe the low-core mappers (I'll taking this term) are feeling so, cause they spent only a fraction of the time to make the maps - often ignoring requirements, engine and gameplay aspects - and getting some full servers - and still they aren't that much accepted as they think it ought to be. (Damnit, again some sarcasm).


Addendum:
AssaultCube community is probably the only community which acts in that psychotic way. Normally everyone should work on maps which fits in the game concept ("more realistic compared to Cube"), advancing the quality in every map generation. But there is constant effort to re-transform this game back to a pre-Cube-like game. My two cents

[Alien]

Apollo, this is very pure lie :/ it isn't your first map. :/ This is just a forum discussion, no victories and no lost. No need for this. You were also that mapping guy who was moved forward by playing bunch of noobs instead of "nice" word from dev.

This thread shouldn't be about persuading others, but about expressing original opinions. About what can bring the game free map voting and what the game can take this free map voting.. How to solve it, keep old map still playable, keep mappers to evolve from beginning, keep noobs to have their fun, keep default style of game visible, keep good standard of visible part of game etc.

[Apollo{TyD}]

Apollo, this is very pure lie :/ it isn't your first map. :/

The only lie here is in word "A-lie-n". I must fail you. The first shows "ac_newdesert" and the second "ac_sakrileg" . Sorry, that I'm not fitting in your (and others) imagination of how a mapper should start here.

If you don't trust me - read the descriptions/blurb at quadropolis:

http://quadropolis.us/node/687
http://www.quadropolis.us/node/711

(Lol, the only thing I have forgotten was that I have used a (stupid) red and blue light in the base. Unbelievable ugly, lol - so I can strike out "making fancy lights" - mission accomplished)

So Alien, instead of playing the "advocate of the poor" and "fighter for any kind of freedom" role in any mappin related thread - how about making a new map? Riverdry was your masterpiece - please correct me if I am wrong but since January 2009 there was nothing new to see from you.

[!jack!]

Uhmm, i definitely F2'ed, however i still think there should be restrictions but just not as bad, like maybe a height distance or a width distance etc,
but if the vote for no restrictions wins, i think it would be great to have a quality section in the server list, like game mode but quality, so if it is good, no lag, good fps, quality Section should be %100, or if it was rifle@camper Quality %0

---

oh and please try to refrain form using my name in bad ways,

F2. Just because you don't like a map means jack shit, frankly.

Lol

[ExodusS]

Best way to learn mapping is : discovery!
Yes it is.

The first time i pressed "e" i though it was a bug.
I have never read any doc or read-me and it's same for .cfg.

[CicloN]

F2 , it's useless.

[VenteX]

I wonder how many non-mappers voted F2 in this thread...

[DeafieGamer]

Now you mention it, 16 non-mappers votes F2

---

and 11 non-mappers votes F1

[CicloN]

Who cares if you are a mapper or not. Actually a map a bit , so what?!

[JamJamTheCalcMan]

lol why does it matter whether or not they map? its a public poll dude, open to all :) this isnt a mapper's only club ;)

[VenteX]

Well, since the real arguments have been nothing but "The restrictions are limiting my creativity!" and "You can still make a good map, chill out," It seems like the restrictions only really affect the mappers, and everyone else just is just participating in a dev vs. anti-dev war. It's skewering the point of the whole argument, and nobody's getting anywhere.

This has become just another flame-thread. Nothing's going to get accomplished with it.

[Bukz]

Glad to see someone else thinking outside of the box. :)

[ExodusS]

Well, since the real arguments have been nothing but "The restrictions are limiting my creativity!" and "You can still make a good map, chill out," It seems like the restrictions only really affect the mappers, and everyone else just is just participating in a dev vs. anti-dev war. It's skewering the point of the whole argument, and nobody's getting anywhere.

This has become just another flame-thread. Nothing's going to get accomplished with it.

I am against , not this thread base.
Not based on a flame idea , some people should just stfu and stop crying if they won't see this thread closed.

[tipper|DES|]

Dontcha jest lurve the “I should be able to play what I want when I want” argument.
I seem to remember saying as much when I was eleven or twelve.
Fact is no matter what area you pick there are going to be restrictions and just because the “free” advocates haven’t actually read the licenses very well and don’t really understand the original intended game play style for ac we’ve had to read this sort of debate for years.

The vast majority of the “popular maps are crap. They don’t look very nice, don’t play well unless you’re a couterstrike sniper type player and they don’t encourage players to learn the skills required to play the more complex maps.

Oh sure, they are popular, but mostly with newer players and mainly because they can see the other end of the map and learning flagging and choke points on the more complex and imaginative maps requires a bit more concentration and application.

I don’t believe ac was ever intended to be a sniper style game (although looking at the misuse of ac_douze with flags might make you wonder)
Its supposed to be a fast team orientated game and the majority of the so called “popular” maps kill the game play.

There are lots of things that are popular but being popular doesn’t make something good; unfortunately it tends to indicate more about those who support popular products rather than the product itself.

[JamJamTheCalcMan]

i believe in the AC community, and that this thread can cease of all flames. including myself :P
bukz: who needs boxes when we can be in spheres? :3
ok, so we have: limitations on creativity, and decent maps can still be made. can we see some other points of view?
mine: limitations on creativity. why break precedent ;). im not talking about making one long ass corridor of nothing but health packets. thats not creativity. thats lag lol. im talking about how to identify where these restrictions begin. lets start there. the limitations set upon mappers are, frankly, hard to identify. i have heard that mapmodels cannot touch, and i know that pickups cannot be too close. maybe something about the height, although with the current glitch, exploited by @camper maps, i am very unsure of a limit on height.

i have made some maps, and saw some maps, that were decent in my eyes, not the best, but not the worst. the majority of them were shot down by restrictions, and when we did map checks, nothing appeared, or we fixed what was wrong, and then nothing appeared, and they were still deemed unplayable. its this frustration that makes me dislike the restrictions. i should have linked my frustration with limitations on creativity earlier :/.