Upcoming Release Balance Discussion (SVN)

[pweaks]

AR is too easy to handle. It doesn't have enough recoil. In few days you can learn to master it if you have any experiece from SMG. In 1.0.4 AR was tactical weapon for ac_shine, now it's a noob tube.

[castiel]

[18:21] <carl_glass> oi
[18:21] <carl_glass> wait
[18:21] <carl_glass> you know how jasons arguin with elite over AR being more skilled than smg
[18:21] <carl_glass> i got a good screen for him
[18:23] <carl_glass> smg vs smg 1vs1: lol
[18:23] <carl_glass> http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2056/20...ouzesu.jpg
[18:24] <carl_glass> someone should tell the fucking spastic to learn all weapons
[18:24] <carl_glass> and stop crying about balance
[18:30] <carl_glass> yeah um
[18:30] <carl_glass> pass that on to him
[18:30] <carl_glass> cause i wont be on to

[Elite]

Undead the laggy guy with an ping around 300, where 1/5 of hits dont get registered, f noob. Well i tried the whole time reconnecting but the DSL-line broke down, had for 30 minutes no internet. It was just 4:7 and thats because he respawned 3 times behind me.

Just have to look at my old 1.0.4 screens, where i pwned Undead (every game better score(frags)). Next case the (ex) hacker Panico you have in your clan as well as his brother or cousin Anthrax (well, at the end maybe not).

[Jason]

Just have to look at my old 1.0.4 screens, where i pwned Undead (every game better score(frags)). Next case the (ex) hacker Panico you have in your clan as well as his brother or cousin Anthrax (well, at the end maybe not).

Undead's a better player since 1.0 and has improved vastly over the past months, lag or no lag.

Stop reminiscing about the old days already Elite.
Times change, players improve and regress everyday, it's the truely skilled that can adapt and survive in the coming versions. Survival of the fittest ey'?

You don't see modern soldiers using guns from WWII in Afghanistan do you? Why would they? Always play to win, and use what advantage you can - whether it be a gun that's better or not. If you don't want to win, but rather play for pride go play on the ladder where you can rape noobs.

[SiL3nT]

Jason plays for irl survival. What a tryharder :/

We others play for fun and want it to be fair/skill-needable.

Also, Undead admitted to using lag switch in 1.1.

[Vermi]

If you aren't a tryharder playing for irl survival, you may aswell join a clan founded by a middle aged greek man

[Sepehr]

We others play for fun and want it to be fair/skill-needable.

Basically it's harder to master AR than to master SMG. Btw, if you're that much against AR, try to convince your clanmates not to use it.

[Jason]

Jason plays for irl survival. What a tryharder :/

That's because I am a competitive gamer. I strive to improve, what's so wrong about that? Carry on being low, because it's where you'll always be with that attitude.

[Lantry]

This has gone from a barely constructive conversation, to a bunch of people (who I bet haven't even played SVN that much) having a pissing contest.
There is always going to be a weapon that is called a 'noobtube' or w/e because all the noobs use it. The only way to balance all the weapons so they are all the same difficulty and same strength would be to only have one weapon.

Everyone: chill out, and enjoy 420 day.

[Viper]

If the most powerful weapon has other limiting factors (IMHO kick and spread are best for this) that make it hard to use well except if skilled, than it is fair.

[Aight]

The damage of the smg in SVN seems fine, but not the recoil. My guns jumps in the heigh, sometimes already after the 3-4 bullets. Also on shortrange it happens.

Thank you very much for that post! That's exactly what I feel when I play with the smg in the SVN.

[Nightmare]

^Agree. Smg got much harder to control in the beta.

[Zarjio]

I think balance should be easy to achieve:
- Lower the number of rounds per clip in the AR and the shotty.

There. Balanced.

[Bukz]

...or lower pushback on AR slightly, keep your less rounds in the shotty idea (assuming it won't underpower it), bring back the 1104 settings for the sniper, and we'll probably be much closer to that sweet spot than ever! :D

[XXX40Cal]

no matter what you do with the weapons, noobs will still suck and blame the weapons for sucking so hard.

Man, the sniper is good either way. IDC bc i can kill snipers and kill with sniper. 1v1 doesnt mean sniper going to get his first shot in each time. In fact, often snipers tend to miss.

In team situations, even with 80 dmg with the sniper, u still have to dodge 2 - 3 players spawning with smg, ar, and shotgun. Youre assuming this sniper never misses, which i dont see in AC these days at all. Im not too pumped on the idea of 1 sniper shot 1 pistol shot... thats EASY especially with 10 bullets. I could have 5 kills and never even reload my pistol... I think the sniper was alright the way it was especially when it is the only weapon other than knife that could net you 2 frags for 1 bullet. And 3 medkits? GL finding 2, or even 1 before respawn. Youre still going down in 2 shots agains a good sniper.

Also, id like to see people stop talking about pistol as if it isnt in everyone elses arsenal. Turn off auto reload and just switch to pistol after ur clip is gone and if you arent a noob POS you can finish the guy off and maybe net another kill. Its a side-arm. Use it. Use the knife.

The best weapon in this game is creativity and being able to see past your primary weapon. Pick up a grenade and kill the camping sniper. Trick him. Use cover, draw their fire. The ROF alone gives you ample opportunity to get in close provided you can get them to miss.

My biggest problem with the game was the shotgun. Its great if a couple of guys are using it, but when more than half the players on the map are using it, its impossible to avoid FF and getting constantly sprayed by players who arent even aiming. I wouldnt mind seeing the sniper have more power just so i dont see retards trying to snipe with the shotgun on shine and douze anymore. IMO grenades are the only weapon id like to see tweaked.

[Zarjio]

...or lower pushback on AR slightly, keep your less rounds in the shotty idea (assuming it won't underpower it), bring back the 1104 settings for the sniper, and we'll probably be much closer to that sweet spot than ever! :D

If think that the pushback on the AR is perfect right where it is - it's one of the AR's strong points (and why it was still used occasionally in 1.04 when you wanted to flag run). More recoil might be useful, though: higher damage = harder to handle.

I honestly think that having 3 rounds per clip in the shotty would work well. This way, it would still be easy to splatter people at point blank, but shotgunners couldn't spam rounds at other players from a range and still hope for a kill.

And pleeeaaaase don't touch the SMG or the sniper. Lately, I've been using the sniper in pubs and inters, and I've honestly still found it to be a decent weapon. People need to recognize that not every weapon is for fighting other players in a 1v1. The sniper is a legitimate support weapon: camp somewhere, dealing 80 damage to enemies, and let your teammates finish them. Running in for a 1v1 vs. an SMGer is just a bad idea (or at least it should be).

[MorganKell]

3 rounds per clip? You've got to be kidding. If you advocate that then let's put only 10 in the SMG and 7 in the AR. Don't punish the shotty!!

[Nightmare]

@ Zarj
Going by the beta from earlier in the year, the smg's recoil is a lot worse(T___T)..., and the sniper has a 1 sniper/1 pistol kill ability now. :p

[Roflcopter]

Balance would become far less relevant if weapons all felt easy to kill with and as I say repeatedly the only obstacle is spread for SMG and AR. I mean, good players very often engage at range (more than bad players) where the SMG feels like a peashooter. Even the AR hits sporadically. When one's aim decides results less than spread at long range players will feel unrewarded. People become frustrated by it.

Snipers are annoyed by shield which ruins their results. Just make sniper shots damage shield more than other weapons and keep the additional pistol rounds per clip. We (legacy) play the game to win and still some of our members pick snipers -- even in the current version. Snipers have a huge learning curve but they are still a good weapon for many situations (e.g.: main route on ac_depot, 3v3 where shield is scarce and headshots are plentiful). I do worry that snipers seem to expect their weapons to be suitable to every map and enviroment like the AR.

Shotguns are weak in clan matches and strong in publics. It's odd since I never play it in serious matches but yet always end up using SMG or shotgun in publics. The reason is that in public games the players let me get close to them where it pwns. Ironically the reason it's weak in serious matches is that the players do the opposite, and will not come close even when I bait them. I suggest less damage, more range (less spread) and perhaps manual reloading.

[MorganKell]

Give the smg it's power back. A slingshot would do more damage than that thing.

[Nightmare]

^YES <3

[Stranz]

I'd like to see how the manual reloading goes, Automatic Reloading would be pretty much that, reloading every round and in case you want to stop press reload button again, for manual reloading simply press reload until the gun is loaded.

about the shotgun itself i think it should be good where is best at, short range, lot of spread though, being a shotgun it should be used at the correct distance, so no more shotgun snipe kills.

[Lantry]

I personally think that the shotty should be a double-barrel shotgun. give it about the same power as current version, but only two rounds. also, shorter reload (though still longer than smg) and possibly a shortened reload if they still have one shot in.

[Nightmare]

^I wouldn't mind that.

[#M|A#Wolf]

Lantry: I like the idea. I feel that if the amount of available bullets for the shotgun is reduced, the shotgunners will need to use their brains more to know when to waste a bullet and when to reload, instead of the average shotgunners in pubs that just shoot everything they see.

[Gibstick]

Please lucas, remember those games with me and tempest? The SMG is ::((

[Viper]

A shotgun is a powerful weapon... at short range. As mentioned before by someone why can't shotgun damage be done on a distance-damage ratio like grenades? It would make sense imo. And people plz... The shotgunners piss you off but really, how do they do overall when the games ended? HORRIBLY. Lighten up.

[Gibstick]

How would distance-damage make sense? The people with real aim would not get rewarded and shotguns in real life are far from that. I know that none of the weapons are realistic, but this is ridiculous, don't you think?

[Viper]

sorry im confusing myself...

Spread by distance instead of randomly... therefore damage would be higher at short range versus long range.

[Roflcopter]

...

I think this is a good idea. On the one hand spread is too random for skilled players, on the other hand it's desirable that weapons be less effective at long ranges. This would solve both problems.

The remaining banes of randomness would then be limited to spawns and that matter of bullets only sporadically passing through wired fences.