Destruction League's opening

[Dade]

Dear all,
Assault Cube Company of the Emisarios de la Destrucción is committed to promote and encourage competition whose values represent the heart and soul philosophy of our Clan. Therefore, we provide any fan of Assault Cube the possibility to measure his skills with the rest of the community in a league based on fair play and sportsmanship.

The competition is based on a league system of 'as much division as needed' with 8 competing teams per division. With both home and away matches, we provide 4 months duration exciting and competitive seasons (one scheduled match per week). Match format will be 4vs4 (5vs5 if teams agreed on match dating) with no particular restrictions, except the suggestions we learned from other Assault Cube competitions. If you and your clan are willing to participate, or you are just curious, feel free to check the 'About Season' button for the extended version of the rules. However, in order to fit the organization of the league for the next season, this first season will have some changes in it's structure. Instead of the original structure, this opening season will be composed by 4 divisions of 6 teams each. Moreover, the winner and runner up of each league (except Honor) will promote to an higher division. On the other hand, the 5th and 6th (except League Two) teams will compare it's flag difference with the 3rd and 4th of the nearest lower division. This 'mess' is made in order to get an adequate balance of the Second Season, which will be structured correctly as stated on rules.

Although the league will be invitational, this first opening season will have up to 24 team slots which sign-up deadline have been marked on 25th of January. From this date, we will organize all the leagues and match days, until the opening date of the season 31th of January, when the competition starts. Regarding league organization, we encourage all the participating teams to suggest by Private Message, with a good doses of reality and sportsmanship, their own desired division to play (between Honor, Premier, League One & League Two). In case there is a surplus of demand for a certain League, we will have to make a draw and relocate the remaining teams to a lower (higher) division.

Participation is easy and simple, just register on ED Site and post your registration request on the League Forum. We will then create your team and give you the adequate instructions to fully register your clan into the league.

Thanks all for your time, we hope to have a nice experience in this project,
GGz!

PS: Rules have been Google Translated from the Spanish version, so expect some minor changes to make them more human friendly.

Currently Signed Teams (Signup Closing 25th of January)

• Clan aCKa
  
• epic.Rebellions
  
• Emisarios de la Destrucción
  
• Down To F*ck
  
• Tear you Down !
  
• Operation: Onslaught
  
• dVotion
  
• BoB Clan
  
• Over Clan
  
• World United Team
  
• Fuerza Elite Latina
  
• Gr!zzly Team
  

[FunkyHamster]

Do you have open slots for clanless players?

I don't have a clan right now. I was part of {IAM} clan but I quit it since it was difficult for me to play with my team in organized matches.

How you will assess the level of each clan? How you will assign them to the different divisions?

---

BTW I could not find the rules, I can read Spanish and it seems that you don't have any link. Can you post a link that works please?

[Drakas]

Thank you very much for your invitation.

It would be nice if you made your website (and its contents) available to view without registration, and also in the more common language, English since most of can't comprehend Spanish.
Drakas

[Faron8]

Thank you very much for your invitation.

It would be nice if you made your website (and its contents) available to view without registration, and also in the more common language, English since most of can't comprehend Spanish.
Drakas

google chrome FTW!

[FunkyHamster]

Thank you very much for your invitation.

It would be nice if you made your website (and its contents) available to view without registration, and also in the more common language, English since most of can't comprehend Spanish.
Drakas

100% agree

[Vermi]

Is it true there is a ban on sniper+pistol combo?

"Similarly, you may not use the overlay of Mumble."

"Use will be penalized:
Sniper-Pistol Combo
Auto-switch scripts
Hitbox frames"

[Dade]

Do you have open slots for clanless players?
How you will assess the level of each clan? How you will assign them to the different divisions?
BTW I could not find the rules, I can read Spanish and it seems that you don't have any link. Can you post a link that works please?

Check rules on the About Season button, if you wish to have the spanish version download them from THIS LINK.

Clanless players can try find their place on existing teams, or raise a new one with other clanless players. I'm sure you will find out much volunteers on this forums ;). Of course, expect technical support (all clans) regarding Mumble and servers for the matches ;) - more news on this soon.

Regarding league organization, I think I posted it well on the opening post:

we encourage all the participating teams to suggest by Private Message, with a good doses of reality and sportsmanship, their own desired division to play (between Honor, Premier, League One & League Two). In case there is a surplus of demand for a certain League, we will have to make a draw and relocate the remaining teams to a lower (higher) division.

Thank you very much for your invitation.

It would be nice if you made your website (and its contents) available to view without registration, and also in the more common language, English since most of can't comprehend Spanish.
Drakas

Nice to see this words for such an institution of AC as you Drakas. We are aware that our site is not 100% comfortable for non-spanish users, but expect major changes on this within the second season (understand we first have to check if this project is going to grow or not and if the actual tech is suitable for it).

I hope to see w00p fighting for the championship since the first season ;)

Is it true there is a ban on sniper+pistol combo?

"Similarly, you may not use the overlay of Mumble."

"Use will be penalized:
Sniper-Pistol Combo
Auto-switch scripts
Hitbox frames"

I have seen the word 'ban' only in cases of bad conduct or players team-changes (masking). Penalizations are not bans (any real doubt on this?), they might be temporary suspensions or flag privation depending on circumstances and admins decisions.

Mumble overlay is forbidden until 1.2.3 got released, because it has been used on other titles not exactly for VoIP purposes and new version should fix all problems related with it (you got even banned from some PunkBuster servers if using Mumble Overlay).

Hope I solved almost all your doubts,
GGz!

[FunkyHamster]

Dade,

First of all I want to thank you. I see a lot of work behind this. I hope this tourney will be a total success.

Is it true there is a ban on sniper+pistol combo?

"Similarly, you may not use the overlay of Mumble."

"Use will be penalized:
Sniper-Pistol Combo
Auto-switch scripts
Hitbox frames"

I have seen the word 'ban' only in cases of bad conduct or players team-changes (masking). Penalizations are not bans (any real doubt on this?), they might be temporary suspensions or flag privation depending on circumstances and admins decisions.

Mumble overlay is forbidden until 1.2.3 got released, because it has been used on other titles not exactly for VoIP purposes and new version should fix all problems related with it (you got even banned from some PunkBuster servers if using Mumble Overlay).

Sniper-Pistol Combo? Why penalize? I am not even a sniper user, and actually I hate the combo, I am not sure if this is fair. What are the penalization details?

What is the problem with Mumble Overlay?

Thank you.

[Infinite]

dVotion will check this League out for SURE! :o

[Jason]

What is the problem with Mumble Overlay?
Thank you.

Firstly, this is a league, not a tourney ;)

And your mumble question:
It can be modified to create a crosshair in game and other things, so obviously sniper players would have an advantage, but I doubt however anyone knows how to do this anyway in windows, as it is a linux feature I believe.

Not an issue really, unless you have twins on your team with the same voice :D

[FunkyHamster]

And your mumble question:
It can be modified to create a crosshair in game and other things, so obviously sniper players would have an advantage, but I doubt however anyone knows how to do this anyway in windows, as it is a linux feature I believe.

You can stick a chewing gum on the center of the screen... Forbidding Mumble Overlay is really going too far...

Thank you for your reply.

[Dade]

Sniper-Pistol Combo? Why penalize? I am not even a sniper user, and actually I hate the combo, I am not sure if this is fair. What are the penalization details?[/color]

There are actually no extra info about penalizations, as we think the best thing is to discuss each case separately. Regarding Sniper-Pistol Combo for example, a random kill maybe not be cause of penalization but repeat it once and once again will probably got consequences. Of course, I would not 'suggest' anyone to kill someone carrying the flag with this Combo.

As for the 'why', from my side I can say two main reasons:
- 100% void any kind of discussion related with demo reviews about if certain switches are scripted or not
- Snipers are intended for support, not for rush :)

dVotion will check this League out for SURE! :o

Nice! Remember to send me a PM and register on ED site in case you guys decide to participate ;)

You can stick a chewing gum on the center of the screen... Forbidding Mumble Overlay is really going too far...

PunkBuster actually considers it a Video Driver Hack... still too far? Anyway, Jason example was just that, an example. There are still much things that can be done. Mumble 1.2.3 should solve this issue tough.

GGz!

[FunkyHamster]

As for the 'why', from my side I can say two main reasons:
- 100% void any kind of discussion related with demo reviews about if certain switches are scripted or not
- Snipers are intended for support, not for rush :)

Thank you again for your response.

Well, lately I have seen a lot of Shotgun-Pistol combo. This will be penalized?

Myself I use a lot of AR-Pistol combo, when I have no more bullets. Having a good mouse and the proper configuration makes a big difference.

Don't you think you are creating a bigger problem than the one you are intending to solve? All the Sniper players will just reject the league...

I repeat: I very rarely use the Sniper. Your second reason seems very unconvincing to me. The nature of a weapon is a matter of taste. Only performance on the game should determine the use of it.

Are we going to forbid shotgunners to shot from far away? Or shotgun will be banned in ac_douze if the player run around the map? My guess is that absolutely no. Again if somebody jump using a nade, that will be wrong?

Thank you.

[titiPT]

First the rifle sprint, now sniper combo? GL with your league.

[Darkbee]

Everybody should play on laptops using trackpads for it to be completely fair.

[Undead]

are you trying to troll with your rules

i find it very ironic that shotgun players are making the rules.

[Alex007]

woot o.O Dade you still going with this?

I thought already had explained you that the characteristics what are you trying to penalize are part of this game and is intended to be like that

And I believe that it is not good that someone tries to tell another how to play no matter if there is the organizer of the tournament.

Also I remember telling you when it was proposed to expand the Clan [ED] to this game that it was not a tactical game and that was part of the fun and everyone agreed with the game as there is, so I don’t know why you insist on doing so, for that we have other games like CoD

Anyway that’s the main reason why I am no longer part of the organization of this league or tourney, a shame because it could have been successful doing differently and listening the suggestions of the majority

So if you want to do it in this way (your way) I suggest better make a small tournament and invite just a few friends Clans cause is obvious that many do not share your opinion (yes the majority)

and please do not reply to this here do it in private but I think that everything is said, I did here because was necessary in my opinion


cya in the game

[Jason]

this game that it was not a tactical game

So the top clans and players are just mindless zombies who put no real thought into the game but just run around killing people, hoping to find the flag or some shield.

Damn, I must have been doing it wrong.

[Dade]

Well, lately I have seen a lot of Shotgun-Pistol combo. This will be penalized?

Myself I use a lot of AR-Pistol combo, when I have no more bullets. Having a good mouse and the proper configuration makes a big difference.

Don't you think you are creating a bigger problem than the one you are intending to solve? All the Sniper players will just reject the league...

Are we going to forbid shotgunners to shot from far away? Or shotgun will be banned in ac_douze if the player run around the map? My guess is that absolutely no. Again if somebody jump using a nade, that will be wrong?

Good point FunkyHamster, I confess I had a similar idea on first toughs about a possible Shotgun-pistol Combo. However, shotguns have not a fixed damage ratio (it mainly depends on distance and buckshots impact, as far I know) like Sniper Rifle has, so I tough it should not be such an issue.

On the other hand, I think you are mixing some concepts. Using pistol when run out of bullets is not any combo at all ;)

Regarding Sniper players, I think you know [aCKa] Perros. As far I know, he is a well considered sniper on Assault Cube and he had no complaint on this. I even remember him saying it was a good idea :)

First the rifle sprint, now sniper combo? GL with your league.

Thanks for the good luck thing, but it seems to me you haven't read the rules before posting about them.

Rules are mainly the same than on presentation thread by Alex, except the Rifle Sprint rule and some clarifications of the text itself (not modifications). There is no 'first & now' ;)

Everybody should play on laptops using trackpads for it to be completely fair.

Thanks for irony!

are you trying to troll with your rules

i find it very ironic that shotgun players are making the rules.

Thanks for trolling! I find it very ironic that I don't (usually) use shotgun too :)

woot o.O Dade you still going with this?

I thought already had explained you that the characteristics what are you trying to penalize are part of this game and is intended to be like that

And I believe that it is not good that someone tries to tell another how to play no matter if there is the organizer of the tournament.

Anyway that’s the main reason why I am no longer part of the organization of this league or tourney, a shame because it could have been successful doing differently and listening the suggestions of the majority

So if you want to do it in this way (your way) I suggest better make a small tournament and invite just a few friends Clans cause is obvious that many do not share your opinion (yes the majority)

I don't see how an opinon of 5 people over a forum with more than 1500 users is a majority. Really.

We are not forcing anyone to participate (nor to play with DL rules outside the league matches), people is free to participate or not in the project as far they want.

There are already 11 teams (out of 24) signed up, and still 19 days left; still not seeing much issues.

So the top clans and players are just mindless zombies who put no real thought into the game but just run around killing people, hoping to find the flag or some shield.

Damn, I must have been doing it wrong.

Hahaha... well, in 'majority' opinon... YES! xD

GGz!

[Ghost]

Like I said, none of Operation: Onslaught is going to be participating with this pesky Assault Rifle rule or did you guys remove it?

[Dade]

Like I said, none of Operation: Onslaught is going to be participating with this pesky Assault Rifle rule or did you guys remove it?

Have got removed due to 4v4 format ;)

[titiPT]

I apologise, it seems like the rifle sprint is now ALLOWED. Kudos.

But if you removed that penalty, why had a even more nonsense one?
"Oh gee, you can't use 2 weapons in a row, because that is..YOU JUST CAN'T".

Just a quick question. How long have you been playing AC?

[Jason]

So the top clans and players are just mindless zombies who put no real thought into the game but just run around killing people, hoping to find the flag or some shield.

Damn, I must have been doing it wrong.

Hahaha... well, in 'majority' opinon... YES! xD

GGz!

I hope you realise, teams like O3, =MyS=, |eR|, |BC| and many other skilled teams use tactics in game. You can't play this game at a high level without tactics.

[#M|A#Wolf]

No offense, but the "penalization" of the sniper-pistol combo is just making this league less popular to most. I feel like you are actually doing this because you hate it, cause there really isn't a real excuse to why it would/should be "penalized". Don't tell us sniper was intended for support, and not for rushing cause that is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Sure, that idea may aply in other games like CoD, but this isn't CoD.

Besides that, good luck.

[FunkyHamster]

Everybody should play on laptops using trackpads for it to be completely fair.

Darkbee, I loved that comment :) I owe you a drink.

Dade, again thank you for your reply. I have some comments that I want to share.

Good point FunkyHamster, I confess I had a similar idea on first toughs about a possible Shotgun-pistol Combo. However, shotguns have not a fixed damage ratio (it mainly depends on distance and buckshots impact, as far I know) like Sniper Rifle has, so I tough it should not be such an issue.

On the other hand, I think you are mixing some concepts. Using pistol when run out of bullets is not any combo at all ;)

The issue was switching-weapon scripts, no? Why if the damage is deterministic or not has something to do here?

My point is that you can't hunt all the cheaters, period. I am a seasoned programmer, I have several years of experience working for projects were security was critical. I can tell you with confidence that due to the nature of AC (opensource and focus on performance) it is near impossible to eradicate cheating. If somebody has the knowledge and the time he can cheat all that he wants and you will never be aware.

If you tell me that you are banning Sniper-Combo because of your very personal taste then I would be somehow disappointed. If you are telling me that you are trying to avoid cheating with this, I would tell you that I am skeptic about your methods.

This issue is similar to the camping "issue". Some players consider it offensive, even cheating. I am still asking myself why someone who is a serious player can be offended by a camping player. Camping is a matter of taste and strategy, it is up to the player to do it or not.

Regarding Sniper players, I think you know [aCKa] Perros. As far I know, he is a well considered sniper on Assault Cube and he had no complaint on this. I even remember him saying it was a good idea :)

I respect [aCKa]Perros above everything. He taught me all I know about AC, girls and life. I am not sure that he is considered a sniper, I play often with him, he use every weapon. Anyway, [aCKa]Perros opinion is just another opinion for the rest of the community.

We are not forcing anyone to participate (nor to play with DL rules outside the league matches), people is free to participate or not in the project as far they want.

That is my understanding but thank you for the reminder. Consider that listening and making compromises might be wise if you want to engage the AC community into your project.

There are already 11 teams (out of 24) signed up, and still 19 days left; still not seeing much issues.

I asked some of my friends that are strong players if they wanted to partner with me for the league. All of them refused; None of them liked the league rules nor the inflexibility. BTW are all the members of the 11 teams aware of the rules?

[Ronald_Reagan]

There are actually no extra info about penalizations, as we think the best thing is to discuss each case separately.

As you are trying to make this a big thing, I would suggest you have set rules. People like to argue and claim that you are biased when you do not have set rules. From my experience in life, you need to have set rules, set limits, and set consequences to make people feel it is fair. In the case of some less mature people, you just have to say "tough it".

Now, from what I see the AR sprint is now allowed. GJ!
But, the sniper-pistol is not. This is just plain stupid. This is one of the ways you use the sniper in the game. You cant be stuck up in the prissyness of other games where snipers cannot go in melee style. If you are afraid of these tactics getting messed up, go for a 2v2 or 3v3 league. 4v4 Is pushing the limits as to how tactical you can get.

I think you need to accept much more feedback from the community. I see you saying:

I don't see how an opinon of 5 people over a forum with more than 1500 users is a majority.

You are underestimating the amount of people to rest your coincidence. OPEN YOUR EYES! You may be trying to take a lead from our beloved devs. There needs to be some community separation between the development team and the community. However, when you are arranging something for the community you need to see, receive, and use the feedback you get.
From what I see, you are a blind man walking a very unfamiliar trail.

[Dade]

I apologise, it seems like the rifle sprint is now ALLOWED. Kudos.

But if you removed that penalty, why had a even more nonsense one?
"Oh gee, you can't use 2 weapons in a row, because that is..YOU JUST CAN'T".

Just a quick question. How long have you been playing AC?

Thanks you for the apologizes. About Sniper-Pistol combo, I have already told both technical (this means, why it has been forbidden on the league) and personal (which, of course, is just a personal tough) reasons. Thats why I don't understand why people is focusing only on the personal one.

I hope you realise, teams like O3, =MyS=, |eR|, |BC| and many other skilled teams use tactics in game. You can't play this game at a high level without tactics.

Was kidding mate. I'm with you, almost no game can be played without tactics and strats at higher levels. Btw, tactics or strategies? :P

No offense, but the "penalization" of the sniper-pistol combo is just making this league less popular to most. I feel like you are actually doing this because you hate it, cause there really isn't a real excuse to why it would/should be "penalized". Don't tell us sniper was intended for support, and not for rushing cause that is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Sure, that idea may aply in other games like CoD, but this isn't CoD.

Besides that, good luck.

Thanks for the good luck thing. Please, don't focus on the personal reasons as it has nothing to do with the final decision for the League.

Regarding popularity, I am not doing this for it. Really. I have created, and actually managing, a Community called STALKERHispano about the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Universe. It's leading all the hispanic public and is world wide known on the STALKER ambient. We organize events, competitions and much more projects, being recognized by the developers as the 'Main Spanish Community'. STALKERHispano sponsor is, in fact, ED sponsor. As for ED, our Clan history tells it all.

Hence, nope, popularity is not my/our concern regarding this project.


Sorry FunkyHamster if I don't quote all your post, but it would make this larger than needed :)

Before any explanation, remark that we are talking about my personal toughs, which have nothing to do with the real technical reasons by which it has been forbidden. Following your question, I consider damage deterministic because frags are often (if not always) deciding the final result. If you compare a Shotty-Pistol Combo (as you pointed above) with Sniper-Pistol Combo, you will see that while with Sniper Rifle you are almost 100% sure the amount of damage you have done (it can vary with armors, but I think you are getting the idea), it can't be the same with a Shotgun. Add to this, the fact that Sniper Rifle allows the sniper to shot from far away and then just sum 2+2 :). With other weapons I think it's even not worth the risk.

Regarding 'cheaters hunt' I will say I have been contacting the dev of UAC2 (now UAC3), wich I worked with for Ghost Recon anticheat. However, due to the fact that AC can be played also on Linux and Mac, it can't be done on this moment. Although I am with you about the impossibility of erradicate cheating, I think is always positive to try our best ideas in order to prevent it. Anyway, I consider mostly the Sniper-Pistol combo prohibition a way to void any infinite discussion when a replay is shown to explain a ban rather than an cheat prevention. Before anything is said about this, I love replay tools in games. It's probably one of the most effective way to catch cheaters, but most times there are discussions with them (specially if the banned guy if a known player). I think we can sacrifice a minor gameplay practice, to save from lot of explanations and/or problems.

About your fellas... too bad they don't want to enjoy this league! I really hope you will find a team and if not, please consider collaborating in the project ;) I don't see any inflexibility, I just see stability; we can't change rules whenever the wind change it's course. I've never saw ESL or ClanBase changing their rules whenever someone has something to argue about them :)

Rules are public and easy to access, and I don't see why teams and their members should not have read them.

GGz!

[Bullpup]

No mumble, but can teams use skype or teamspeak or other voip tec? how would you go about enforcing all this?

Can players use the pistol knife combo? Im quite sure i could pwn OP with the pistol knife alone as he seems like a nub -=(opinion)=-

I think the OP should mod the client to bend it to his communist ways, not broadcast to masterserver.

I'm with undead, this sounds like a giant trolling expedition.

[#M|A#Wolf]

I've never saw ESL or ClanBase changing their rules whenever someone has something to argue about them :)

This didn't happen because they didn't come up with such unusual rules.

I don't quite understand your popularity explanation. You say you don't care about popularity, so you basically mean that you wouldn't care if we all hated you and no one plays? I mean, it's a league made by you for the players to be able to play, if there is no wish for popularity (as in making the league not "player-friendly") you will not get the players you are wishing to get.

Take the ACWC as an example. See the rules for yourself and see how no rule that limits regular gameplay was done. By regular gameplay I mean like penalizing crouching, gun combos, edge-jumping, nade jumping, etc. It lets the player play the way they want, still by adding the limitations of auto-switch scripts, brightskins, hitbox frames, which is completely agreed by all.

[Dade]

No mumble, but can teams use skype or teamspeak or other voip tec? how would you go about enforcing all this?

Can players use the pistol knife combo? Im quite sure i could pwn OP with the pistol knife alone as he seems like a nub -=(opinion)=-

I think the OP should mod the client to bend it to his communist ways, not broadcast to masterserver.

I'm with undead, this sounds like a giant trolling expedition.

Again, please read rules as it doesn't say anything about them. VoIP programs are, of course, not prohibited anyhow. Only Mumble Overlay feature is not allowed, because it can be used not exactly for honest purposes.

I don't quite understand your popularity explanation. You say you don't care about popularity, so you basically mean that you wouldn't care if we all hated you and no one plays? I mean, it's a league made by you for the players to be able to play, if there is no wish for popularity (as in making the league not "player-friendly") you will not get the players you are wishing to get.

Take the ACWC as an example. See the rules for yourself and see how no rule that limits regular gameplay was done. By regular gameplay I mean like penalizing crouching, gun combos, edge-jumping, nade jumping, etc. It lets the player play the way they want, still by adding the limitations of auto-switch scripts, brightskins, hitbox frames, which is completely agreed by all.

I don't think anyone is going to hate me (or anyone else) for a game, and if someone do, that person should probably go find some hobby for him/herself. My only wish is to provide AC with a solid and continued competition, and personally I will be happy both with 5 teams or with 100.

I haven't read anything on our ruleset about penalizing all that things you said (except for a particular gun combo), are you sure you read Destruction League rules?

GGz!