Servers with unconverted map configs
#1
Split discussion from here: http://forum.cubers.net/thread-8242-post...#pid163674

As I've said, AC can read all map formats since the first cube 1 map existed. The map config format never really changed - the paths for the media files did. And for those: I'm really pissed, that there are so many server owners who don't give a shit and still have unconverted map configs on their servers.
FYI, there won't be polls for those servers. They will simply be removed from the list.
Code:
grep \"bench *.cfg
will find most of the unconverted configs, if you can't be bothered to load every map on your server at least once. Fix your damn servers! It's been over a year!

PS: If your server is taken off the list for delivering broken map configs... who knows... maybe, it'll also take over a year to get it back on the list?
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#2
(11 May 15, 08:34PM)stef Wrote: PS: If your server is taken off the list for delivering broken map configs... who knows... maybe, it'll also take over a year to get it back on the list?

I sincerely hope this is a joke.
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#3
I run servers I don't make maps. I get maps from akimbo, the 1.2 section.

Code:
ac_empyreal.cfg:mapmodel 0 0 0 0 "bench"
ac_tanglewood.cfg:mapmodel 0 0 0 0 "bench"
champion.cfg:mapmodel 0 0 0 0 "bench"
Why is this an error/problem?
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#4
(12 May 15, 01:55AM)PhaNtom Wrote: I sincerely hope this is a joke.
Why should it be? If you can't be bothered to fix your server for over a year?
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#5
(12 May 15, 04:57AM)Mousikos Wrote: Why is this an error/problem?

The mentioned grep can be used to search for unconverted map config files. You'll still have to look at the file and check if the map loads properly on a vanilla installation.

As to your example: Z3R0 seems to have created a map config with a mix of existing and non-existing models, of which the map only uses the existing ones. As did RKTnoob.

However - only ac_empyreal loads without errors. You should remove the other two. For the future: before you upload a map to a server, you should load it from an AC with an empty profile (at least with an empty packages directory in the profile). Do do that, just go to your profile directory and rename the existing packages directory. After the test delete the new created packages directory and rename the original one back.

And yes: someone should find the time and check all the maps on akimbo...
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#6
Yeah, Z3R0, fix your broken map that everyone has already played without error, and is soon to win a map contest.

[Image: photo.jpg?sz=50]
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#7
So, I have a question. How does this affect mapping servers? There are times when a "broken" cfg might pop up in a mapping session.
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#8
When we made the new Akimbo with Cleaner we took the time to convert and test each map we uploaded. If you want to use up to date maps, download them from there.

It might happens (because of the amount of packages we host) that a map is not converted, in which case it would be great to keep us informed.
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#9
Lucas, the main issue is from maps who use official contents that moved, or use unofficial contents that became official during the 1.2 transition, like the Ivy model. For a reason I don't know, when we get the map from Akimbo, many models and textures are missing. This bug appeared for ac_sylang when we wanted to test it with Nightmare, today I figured out where the issue comes from and how to "fix" it, when you already have the map or another version of the map with a .cfg, if you /getmap it from Akimbo, the client will not launch the .cfg. To fix it you have to delete the map from your files then to /getmap a fresh Akimbo version of the map, then it's fine. So I suggest the autopackager, when a map is not the same version of Akimbo's version, should detect it, delete the map files and download a new one.

Also, to avoid all these modified map versions, I think a sort of protection similar to official maps should be applied, not everyone should be able to save a map downloaded from Akimbo under the exact same name, because it leads to confusions even for the original mapper itself to know which version is the good one and also, it will reproduce the same bug with the autopackager again and again.

To Stef, just stop over-reacting, it takes AC admins years to ban an adverted admin abuser tyran, but when it comes to broken map configs nobody ever complained of, you ask for a sneaky one year ban to those server owners, what about taking in consideration what the forum says? You look like you just use the forum as a way to spread your informations but never to learn anything from the game you are working for... Plus you are not the one who will have to deal with the server owners who will come complain on the forum because their server got banned mysteriously, and you are not the one who is going to fix and verify the 400 Akimbo maps, all you do is giving repetitive work to people who have enough of it.
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#10
I'm not asking for a year-ban. I'm saying, someone who can't be bothered to fix his shit for over a year, can't expect anyone to rush to get him back on the list.
Also, you are not supposed to check all 400 akimbo maps - but you are supposed to check the maps, that you put on your server. If this is a surprise for you, you should not be running servers.
Halo, take a deep breath. No one says, that if there is an unfinished map or broken config on a server for a while, that that server will be gone for a year. No one is setting up laws here and then enforces them to the letter. You've been here long enough to know that.

I don't get it. How is this even grounds for a debate? Servers who deliver broken content that causes errors on clients and results in broken maps being played - and show no intention of fixing it for over a year - are being defended here? Seriously?

Btw: the errors on ac_tanglewood probably only occur on clients who use profile directories and are caused by a limitation of the game. I'll fix that for the next version - but for now, you'll have to find a different solution. Akimbo will probably not detect that kind of error. Basically, it's not possible to use a path like "packages/models/mapmodels/zero/ac_tanglewood/bulletinboard/../../../../../textures/nieb/planksold0001.jpg" because "packages/models/mapmodels/zero/ac_tanglewood/bulletinboard/" is inside the profile directory, whereas "packages/textures/nieb/planksold0001.jpg" is in the game install directory and you can't get with "../../../../.." from one tree to the other. For now, the only solution is to repackage the texture with the model.
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#11
(12 May 15, 05:53PM)stef Wrote: Servers who deliver broken content that causes errors on clients and results in broken maps being played - and show no intention of fixing it for over a year - are being defended here? Seriously?

I never stated those people were doing great their job at all, but unlike you, I am not all white or all black, I don't think those server owners does not deserve the death sentence because of their acts, I am pretty sure those people are not doing it to mess with you Stef, they are just ignorant, and banning them will never fix the issue, new people will continue to create new servers with broken maps because they are not aware of the mess they cause. Just try to communicate with server owners instead of taking the easy punishment way. The reason you want to ban them is not even in the rules stated by Jamz, start by editing his post first, it's not the USA here, we don't change the law in purpose to make the past punishments beeing relevants.
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#12
Precisely, if a server owner doesn't bother checking the maps on his server by himself, he obviously has no clue / doesn't care, and the most effective solution is to ban his server from the MS.
If he asks for support and motivations for the ban he will be told what to do, if he does not then his server won't be a great loss.

We can't fix every broken server by ourselves, thats not even something you would realistically ask for.
Heres the thing with assaultcube as we knew it for years : there are no official servers, and no officially supported gameplay. As long as it is the case the only way to prevent the game from going nowhere is to put some restrictions in place. Imo there should be more freedom given to custom servers but they should not be the ones you connect to in the first place. Its something we have worked on with drakas while designing the match client and the ac league, but it is also something, i am afraid, the other current devs of assaultcube are not considering.

These are basically the 3 options we have :
1) Current AC state : when you open up the game, any mode/map is equally available to you (including twin towers team LSS) provided by custom servers
2) Current devs wish as it appears to me : when you open up the game, only reasonable game modes are available, provided by custom servers (not much more direction, but at least no stupid maps)
3) ACL goal : limited type of gameplay / map & modes offered (3vs3, competitive oriented, 10 minutes each side and scores registered...) but you also have the option to join custom servers with the most ridiculous modes if you want (it will just be obvious its not what the game is supposed to be)

Many people on the forums want to stick to 1) and are using irrelevant arguments for it (freedom, or any other kind of bs that doesn't apply to a video game) and don't realize this is the worst option for this game to attract new players or even survive.
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#13
(12 May 15, 06:32PM)ExodusS Wrote: Just try to communicate with server owners instead of taking the easy punishment way.
Could you help in that? :)
The intention of this thread is allowing players to comfortable play on the servers, with all graphics which map creator planned, preventing from decreasing maps quality/making them uglier. It has to draw some owners attention, that they should be responsible for their server - for players. 
This thread + firm solutions are one of ways, which can assure that, probably the most effective (the best effects in comparison to loss of time)...
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#14
You could start by editing this post, just add a few informations about how the server quality is important and show a few examples of the main issues you (devs) don't want to see on the masterserver. The thread I linked is probably one of the things a new server owner reads. Until this thread and IIRC, nothing on this forum was speaking about this issue, just writing it somewhere would be a good start.

About what said Lucas, such a change could be used to filter all the servers and also to allow more freedom to AC moders, let's just try to imagine something simple, when you join the multiplayer, you have the choice between the moderated servers (with official or validated maps that fit with AC goals | official game modes) and custom servers (with unofficial game modes and maps that does not fit with AC general environment like gema's maps etc). You now just have to select some "trusted" players to validate or not if a new map goes well with AC's goal.

Of course it's just an idea but maybe it's worth thinking a bit about it.
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#15
The servers in AC are classified to these categories:
1. public (servers with 10 - 16 slots played by all kinds of players )
2. competitive (match servers, ladder servers with experinced players from other games)
3. custom - contains nooby/new/coop maps played by beginners or normal players

Each category has its sense and can be improved. None of these categories should be major. I personally don't like competitive servers filled with over-selfconfident people. On public servers you can find people with real life who are relaxing. Custom servers are filled by people for whom this game is first. Therefore they should have special care.

The servers with prefered gameplay and maps should be offered on the top of list master server list. it means also with correct map configs.
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#16
(11 May 15, 08:34PM)stef Wrote: if you can't be bothered to load every map on your server at least once.

I guess I'm safe with that, thanks ac police
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