Weapon Ranges, spread distance, and damage by cube distances?

[insideJOB]

I can't seem to figure how exactly spread is calculated. What is considered long distance in terms of how many cubes for spread to take effect with say the carbine? I am interested in this info on every weapon for the purpose of designing maps with tactical points to benefit each weapon.

it seems that shot gun and grenades have more than one different range distance for how damage is affected. i'd love to know what each distances is. how much space (cubes or circumference) can a grenade deal over 100 points of damage in and what not?

with the shotgun is spread just a reduction in damage points or does that area being hit by damage (BB's) get larger as range decreases. Do any weapons have a max distances? if not it seems some should.

my two cents.

1. a use great tool in map editor would be to have a tool where you could stand at any point on the map and select the weapon and it would highlight the different distances that effect spread damage from that position so you can see the damage zones circling out and understand how many points of damage can be dealt from any position to another with any given weapon. Or put a grenade marker down at any point and see the varying damage rings lit up on the map so we can see how much damage would be inflicted where if a grenade went here...

2.putting bullet drop on some of the weapons over different ranges would make the game more interesting. don't know if its possible, just an idea.

Thanks for any help.

cheers

[ExodusS]

This idea as been shared already, I think it's not a bad one, the current balance is made by modifeing the wrong weapon parameters IMO. Giving armor piercing to the Carbine wont really make the weapon viable since the Shotgun has the ability to deal almost as much damages at (not so) long distances of the official maps, with a higher rate of fire and an ultimate advantage at short ranges whereas Carbine is almost useless at such a range and his highly affected by pickups.

Shotgun's spread looks like this, red dots have higher damage values than green then blue.



This issue is almost the same with the SMG and AR where the SMG has the short range advantage in a game where maps are full of short range situations and anyway the SMG is not that bad at long ranges.

The spread system is here to disable short range weapons to have a good accuracy at long range, but the spread increases bullets after bullets meaning the first ones are somehow accurates. This system could be a bit more relevant if the increasing spread was not reset on the release of the left click and instead, kept in memory for a short period of time (about a second?) in case the player was "abusing" the said reset.

I think fixing the current system first would already be a huge step into the weapon balance, it's obvious each weapons are supposed to shine at particular situations, mostly range situations but giving utimately limited ranges to some weapons is quite radical and would not fit each maps.

[insideJOB]

thanks for the response and image. is there any documentation on other weapons spreads?

That image seems to make since for a shotgun, but the concept of spread on weapons that shoot single bullets instead of shells seems off to me. does the carbine bullet split apart and mid air into a similar pattern? Or is it an accuracy thing where the bullet can drift/spread off course the further it travels.

It just seems very unrealistic that a shotgun could be shot across the entire length of a map and only spread out into a 4 cube square.

I guess i am mainly interested the exact cube distances where the weapons differences in damage capabilities are most apparent as I think this info would be useful in map design.

Thanks for the help.

[ExodusS]

thanks for the response and image. is there any documentation on other weapons spreads?

I just have this image because only this weapon has known a "radical" change it its code and because it has been discussed on this forum.
I don't think it is necessary for you to have documentations of other weapons, basically for the SMG and the AR, when you maintain the left click, the bullets are less and less accurates until a point it reaches the minimal accuracy limit. Then for the Carbine and the Sniper (when you use the scope), the accuracy are so "perfect" it's not a problem at all on official maps.

It just seems very unrealistic that a shotgun could be shot across the entire length of a map and only spread out into a 4 cube square.

The spread is not so small

I guess i am mainly interested the exact cube distances where the weapons differences in damage capabilities are most apparent as I think this info would be useful in map design.

If you play the game enough, you might be able to know what's the best for each weapons and in which situations they are the best.

[Alien]

the most strange is the pistol is more accurate than sniper.(my feeling) In doors and close range sg should be OP, in tunel and open area in 1v1 sniper should be OP, in small room 1v1 smg should be OP, in small room 1vN nades and carbine should be OP, in open area AR 1vN should OP. Numbers are useless, test it in game, try to create maps for such testing.

[insideJOB]

I'm still very confused as to how this spread concept works and would appreciate links to any recommend reading on the subject.

the shotgun spread image really doesn't explain the spread at a given ranges. I assume after a given amount of cubes the shotgun can only deal a reduced amount of damage points (represented by a green or blue dot in the image above)? how many damage points is a blue dot vs green dot. at point blank range of say 6 cubes is it possible to hit with a reduced damage shot due to spread or a near miss?

I think Alien sees where i am going with this and posted a recommendation for which weapon to use in a given type or area or map. obviously a small close quarters map is more suited for an SMG or shotgun than the sniper rifle in most cases.

I am interested in looking at this info and seeing if I can find ways to make maps and arenas that are more fun to play.

here are some questions have been considering.

1.What is the most fun size and shape map for a close quarters arena?

2. Can a map ever be too big with too many winding tunnels that it becomes less fun to play? or would the most twisted tunneling mess of a map that fits the quality reqs be fun to play for certain game modes?

3.do certain combinations of spaces work (well, best or better) next to another type of space?
ie) 4000sq foot medium size rooms connected by 16 cube wide tunnels with low ceilings...
or a good area for snipers to perch where a teammate with a shotgun is well suited to guard the snipers den...

4. what makes a good sniping spot or a good map for sniping?

5. what maps do you think are the most fun to play and have the best cube geometry, spaces and shapes for fun game play and why?

6. I understand this is a fast arcade game but i still want to create maps layouts that encourage and reward effective teamwork. How can map layouts better encourage this?

7. Can anyone explain how the damage points of a grenade is distributed over space. how many cubes away from a grenade do i have to be to not get hit and what not. could one grenade kill ten players at once or is there a limit on the total amount of damage a grenade can deal...?

8. I plan on making a thread in the mapping section about making maps that are more fun / interesting to play soon. do you have any ideas?


what do ya'll think?