About AC development (part 3)...

[stef]

What are your thoughts about...

1. hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?
   
2. score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?
   
3. team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?
   
4. survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?
   
5. keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)
   

[RantingHuman]

hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?
- Absolutely pointless. Would not miss them.

score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?
- See above.

team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?
- I have not played either of these modes yet. Team LSS might be a good training in how to avoid TKs when using nades. Or the opposite.

survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?
- Survivor is great for 1v1 or 3v3. It brings out some interesting tactics. I would prefer them staying the way they are, unless the changes actually improve gameplay (the random pickup idea sounds interesting) Edit: I didn't realize, that TS starts off with 100 armour now. That is just BS, it was perfect with just 100 health and no armour.

keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)
- Go after flag, while fragging anyone in my way. It would be great if only flags were counted (I'm assuming something similar to sauerbraten CTF modes). More people would go after the flag.

[MPx]

hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?
I remember on Brahma's server. When he was testing these kind of stuff back in 2009. It was fun. I don't know if these gives some extra points, if is not. that would be great. imo.

score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?
Is the core of the game. points for the action you made. frags and flags, but if it count only point for frags, but no flags, is ok.

team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?
I remember playing TPF, It was cool but is not my gamemode of choice. TLSS should be removed.

survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?
I think they need an objetive. somekind of mixing whit KTF and Survivor. the same whit the team based modes.

keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies?
Flags
would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)
Is OK whit me.

[Honor]

hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?

I don't care about it.


score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?

It shows who made your team win. Even if sometimes it's irrelevant.


team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?

Team pistol frenzy is useless, i always feel i've unhits when i use pistol. Pistol frenzy isn't even fun.
I would like to play TLSS but my teammates don't want to play it.

survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?

That's was fun. now with 100 armor it is not anymore.

keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)

Depends if you're in public or not.
In pub, it's easy to play both, when you take the flag you never die.
It can be cool to give a buff to the player who takes the flag like 10 extra hp and 5 extra armor.
In clanwars, every players have a different role but you have to focus on the flags ofc

[XFA]

hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?
they can go

score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?
this can go also

team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?
tpf and tlss don't add anything to the game, i've played on pubs but it's no fun

survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?
I do like how (t)surv is now, actually my favorite gamemode

keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)
I try to get flags but i do get lazy, while i like the idea of only flags counted i would definitely miss knowing how many frags i'm getting

[DrauL]

1. hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?
   
   Don't use 'em, so no.
   
   
2. score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?
   
   No.
   
   
3. team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?
   
   Yes, and enjoy.
   
   
4. survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?
   
   Depends on the changes.
   
   
5. keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)
   
   Go after the flag of course. No.
   
   

[stef]

from anonymous:

hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?

I'm not completely sure to understand what the purpose of hudextra messages was, neither if this appeared for everyone to see on the server (sorry, I just dont remember). That'd serve as giving a general idea of what's happening on the game and who's doing these actions (combo,covering,defending) could be potentially useful to recognize patterns in the opponenet team, useful with reduced amount of players, such as inter/clan matches. If is just visible from the player side otherwise, then I don't see any good reason to miss it.

score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?

They work as a reference, just as Flags serve as a reference to know which team is winning on a CTF game, Frags/Death tell us who's having the higher ground or at least a general view of how the match progresses, both for the team and yourself.

Score is measured by your actions, such as covering, flag scoring, defending, etc. Can be considered as information based on how high it is, however at first glance is just that, a number. unlike frag/death/flags, it can't be interpreted properly unless you put exhaustive attention to every action of certain player, and what every value added to his score means as an action, which is unlikely to happen.

In short, I wouldn't miss Score, just as I didn't miss Ratio on scoreboard.

team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?

Pistol Frenzy its a fun mode to play with friends, other than that, I never considered as a mode to be played competitively, and the fact its non existent on public servers, doesn't help neither. I have only played LSS and that's all I know from that mode.

survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?

I have played survivor a lot with friends, I personally enjoyed the fact you were helpess (no pick ups, no armor), and depended only from your skill and map knowledge. That was until the mode got Kevlar's and Helmets, that kind of killed its charm for me, consireding that it was completely different from DM, you had one shot, one opportunity, if you dropped your spaghetti (totally not a reference to a white rapper song), that was it.

As for team survivor, I didn't like it as much, not because it's bad, just because you depended much on communication, it fits with the strategy part of game, that can be properly achieved by playing with a clan or a close circle, and at the time being, I'm not up for any of that.

keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)

I gotta admit I lack of the proper skill to match good players on this mode, as I struggle to close or corner them, this with more players, becomes tougher if people is just trying to kill you even though you are not carrying the flag. If flags were countered only, may help to get rid of those players, but tbh, producing changes expecting to mitigate bad habits on some players is a hard guess and it shouldn't be the main focus. Still, I'm not against it.

[ExodusS]

hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?

It's almost useless, it doesn't even give additionnal informations with it's relation with the points you get

score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?

Yes, I think the point system is not perfect and clear yet, but it reflects well if you are a "good" or "bad" player in public games. In matches it's useless because it's all about clan's strategy and who attacks/defends go short/long, so players will have more points than others.
To fix that: if mastermode = 2, points are not in the score system.

team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?

Played TLSS once, after 5 minutes half of the server was ban for tking, we had to switch to another mode if we wanted to keep the server alive.
TPF, huh change this fucking pistol sound before, anyway everyone play with the knife.

survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?

No it's fine like it is, I like those modes even if they are not played. The only issue is with huge maps, same issue than T-OSOK (but with T-OSOK, only a few small maps are played such as ac_desert and ac_arctic), for TSURV, the two last opponents are searching the other player for too long.

keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)

When I have the flag I try to survive as I can, camping is often the key, but you need to move to another camp point fast because you are often spotted. If the flagger is in my team I try to protect it or if he's a total noob, I go wait at the other flag spawn. I constantly try to kill the enemy's flagger.

[Million]

[1] hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?

I love them :D and would definitely miss them.

[2] score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?

I don't really look at it and since we aren't ranked in function of our points I don't really see the point of them.

[3] team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?

Only 5 mins for fun, and It wasn't funny.

[4] survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?

Survivor is fine in 1v1, never played much ts.

[5] keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)

Yeah I think only flags should be counted it would encourage people to play the objective

[Vanquish]

[1] hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?
useless


[2] score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?
Score is useless, replace it with dmg dealt per game. I think the way things are atm (being able to customize what stats you want on your own scoreboard) is the best design.


[3] team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?
No, they're just seen as "joke modes".


[4] survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?
Team survivor is terribly boring and is just who camps better. Survivor is somewhat the same except better since it emphasises awareness and aim, although the spawns can sometimes be absolutely ridiculous and game-ruining.


[5] keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)
In case someone's gonna use the Sauer argument, the majority of competitive players in said game use modified clients that display frags/deaths/kpd/acc/etc on the scoreboard. I think that removing "unnecessary" statistics from the scoreboard is a nice idea - but if you actually went through with removing them, I probably would start to miss having frags/etc displayed on the scoreboard.


EDIT: fixed colour derp

[jamz]

• hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?
  I used to enjoy the novelty, but I don't notice them any more.
  
• score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?
  I find that a high pub score seems to reflect good teamplay. If a player wants to concentrate on getting a high score they have to use attacking or solid defensive play. Ratio whoring or camping isn't going to cut it.
  
• team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?
  Yes, but rarely to an end; everyone leaves.
  
• survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?
  I don't like T/SURV. The 100 armour just serves to lengthen the rounds, though.
  
• keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)
  I spend my KTF games unsuccessfully running from one base to the other. I'd be happy with flag-only scores, which would still be zero.
  

[Krayce]

1} hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?

Not bad, it's not this detail that will be crucial to AC future. They have been created, why would you remove them. (Anyway, a work for nothing?... no ones care)

2} score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?

We might customize our own scoreboard easily to chose what stats to show (for instance: Show score points [Yes/No] - Show damage dealt per second [Yes/No] - Show ratio [Yes/No]...)

3} team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?

I would like to play TLSS... but only CTF is mostly played, and about pistol frenzy is just to have fun between mates for around 10/15min max!

4} survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?

I already played these mods but it's more a <<who camps better>>, so I prefer DM/TDM...
We should lose HP if the player dont move after 3/5 seconds or to see where is located the enemy from the map, idk... (it will avoid "master camper" strategy maybe).

5} keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)

We run a lot and sneak, It's useless to kill enemies (or trying to ratio-whores in public). I don't really care if only flags were counted, because in each flag mod I focus to score it.

[Woolly]

hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?
-No

score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?
- Yes

team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?
survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that?

-No, No, Yes, No

would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?

-No

keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode

-Yes, Go after flag and frag, I wouldn't care much

[Robtics]

hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?

No, never used them.

score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?

No, I havent got them on my scoreboard anymore.

team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?
survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?

TPF, yes! I really like it. TLSS, no... never played it! I enjoyed survivor in 1.0.2 more, wouldnt mind changes

keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)

I like the idea. I wouldnt care much about any changes. I think this mode in non-team gets almost never played because with somewhat decent players its very hard to actually keep the flag as you get displayed on the mini-maps but have no support.

[grenadier]

[1] hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?

Annoying spam, I wouldn't miss (I have it turned off).

[2] score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?

Incomprehensible and annoying, because it affects automatic autoteam, which is broken nowadays. So I wouldn't miss, I would be happy (I have it turned off in scoreboard).

[3] team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?

Probably yes, I don't remember now :). Quite boring modes for me. Probably grenades should be disabled in (t)lss.

[4] survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?

I played rarely. Waiting after dead is boring, usually it is much longer than in osok or tosok.
"Minor" change - idea from Digital Paint Paintball 2: dead players land on the same map in "parallel" reality and there play insta or something similar, till round in main world will be over. Waiting won't be so boring then. ;)

[5] keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)

I go after the flag. It would be interesting experiment, if only flags will be counted. But difficult to say, whether it will cause more positive or negative effects.

[ElCrema]

1 - hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?
I find them fun but wouldn't miss them.

2 - score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?
Yes but mostly for pubs.

3 - team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?
Nah!

4- survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?
Fun to play back in the day. Plain crap with 100 armor, just makes some boring camping matches.

5 - keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)
I try to go after the flag, which is hard with folks shooting your arse, ppl lack the point of this mode so I wouldn't mind to see only flags counting.

On a side note: Now that you're talking about game modes I would love to see a DM Efficiency sort of mode. 5 rounds of 3 minutes, players spawning with the same weapon at every round, all 5 weapon played. That would make some cool 1v1 duels...

[D3M0NW0LF]

1. I like the idea (And I certainly use it, it's actually helped me pay attention to how many points I'll rack up), though imo it's not really needed for matches. As creama's already said, it truly belongs in public areas.

2. As I've said in 1, I find score points better for pubs instead of matches, though yes I would miss them (to a certain extent, bragging rights).

3. I've played both, and tbh I love them.

4. I've played both, and honestly I wouldn't mind more changes (though it's good as is).

5. I personally go after the flag/flag carrier. Tbh it's the easiest way to KTF imo. Though I thought flags were the only thing that mattered (and still do to this day).

[Orynge]

hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?
I use them, wouldn't miss them, but they aren't bad I guess.

score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?
Don't care, nobody really cares about them.

team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?
Yes and I don't really care about them either.

survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?
I don't think T/SURV has been perfect yet, so I don't. I really like T/SURV so I won't mind changes to make it better.

keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)
Yep, I play it when I can. Flags matter more so I'll go after them. That said, fragging the person with the flag should give some sort of reward too, otherwise the person that does will lose out of the flag since someone will always be at the next flag base (unless it's a duel). Flags should matter more than random frags but fragging the flag carrier should matter too.

[DamDam]

1.hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?

Useless, provides information nobody cares about and spams the console that can be used to see who killed who and who's alive on the map. Maybe it can help new comers to get self satisfaction or make it look like CoD (killing spree etc...), but if you keep it, it should be optional.

2.score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?
I do like seeing the score on screenshots because it's the best way to know how much a player has impacted the game. Looking at ratio, number of flags/frags, deaths won't always make you understand how the game went. With score you could know that even if someone died a lot but has a 1000 score, he probably defended and returned a lot of flags and contributed a lot to his team win.

3.team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?

It's a joke, unfunny and nobody likes to play it. TPF is the worst since it all comes down to who gets akimbo first. Once you have akimbo you're a god, even in CTF, akimbo is just very strong.

4.survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?

I consider survivor ac_douze the best 1on1 mode when it comes to aim & position only. There's not a lot of thinking through where your enemy could be or what pickup you should get. It's all about timing your engages and aiming properly across the map. (my favorite warm up map with vanq too <3)

5.keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)

I think it would be awesome to have a mode where frags don't matter/aren't count (since i do suck at fragging).
It would bring up different playstyle and more teamwork/communication which is what I search for in a teamgame. Covering, defending and dropping the flag at strategical moments can be very interesting to watch.

[pwnage{TyD}]

hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?
Never used then, wouldn't miss them.
score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?
Not ingame scores anyway. Like the old scoreboard without the points.
team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?
survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?

Played them all, but not very often as people tend to leave servers running any other mode than CTF. Wouldn't mind minor changes as long as some of the gamemodes stays unique to AC.

keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)

Always go for the flag. Would like the idea of only flags being counted, that's what the gamemode is for IMO.

[Luc@s]

1. hudextra messages?
   i never turned them on.
   
   
2. score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?
   I would DEFINITELY miss them. Scores show who did the work in your team. If they were given more importance, i believe they would encourage a better gameplay and contribute to improve most players teamplay skills.
   Currently, my scoreboard hides every stat except: flags, frags and points. I dont care about deaths or ratio.
   
   
3. team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?
   I would not miss them, because i never really played them. TLSS does not work anyway, because of teamkilling... Maybe it would be easier to play in clanmatch with organized teammates, but the other gamemodes are a lot more interesting to play.
   
   
4. survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?
   Survivor gamemodes are very good atm. People suggested to sort players and teams by round survived rather than most frags, but would it be really different?
   
5. keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)
   I feel like im the only one trying to score or kill the flag bearer in this game. Seems like everyone else just try to kill on sight.
   Maybe frags on players that are not carrying the flag should not be rewarded at all in KTF. (unless its a cover or something of this kind in teammodes of course). Everything should always be counted imo, but score should priors over frags (but not over flags) in flag modes.
   

[Roflcopter]

[*] score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?
I would DEFINITELY miss them. Scores show who did the work in your team. If they were given more importance, i believe they would encourage a better gameplay and contribute to improve most players teamplay skills.
Currently, my scoreboard hides every stat except: flags, frags and points. I dont care about deaths or ratio.

Deaths and frags are sadly worried about too much. But score is no better, it's just an arbitrary aggregate of many stats. A computer can't understand AC well enough to make a meaningful judgement.

[RKTnoob]

hudextra messages? (combo, cover, defended, etc) - would you miss them?
No, drop them.

score points in general? (in addition to flags and frags) - would you miss them?
yes

team pistol frenzy, team last swiss standing? ever played?
Yes, don't drop them out

survivor (last man standing), team survivor? have you ever played that? would you mind minor changes to those gamemodes?
I played them, I like them, what minor changes?

keep the flag (non-team)? do you go after the flag, or do you spend your time fragging random enemies? would you mind, if in ktf only flags were counted? (that was the original intention of the gamemode)
I wouldn't mind if only flags were counted.

[Luc@s]

A computer can't understand AC well enough to make a meaningful judgement.

Nobody argued that. My opinion is, "points" help me to figure out who's doing the work better than frags or any other statistics.
By the way, the regen mode uses the score system to determine who should be given a flag count increment when a base is kept long enough. I would really like to see how it performs in action.

[Nightmare]

Will the game actually change going by these surveys? For example, if everyone says 'I hate everything except CTF' would you actually remove most other modes?

Either way, this is the first real discussion about the game in over a year, so it's a nice thread(s).

[stef]

Will the game actually change going by these surveys?

In a way: yes. I have a certain direction, that I want the game to develop in. Things I like, and thing I don't like about the game. But I've also been out of touch during the whole 1.1 era - and I know, that it's nonsense to change the game into something, that no one likes but me.

Those threads tell me, how others play the game, and how they see it. It's a good thing, to keep that in mind while working on the game.

For example, if everyone says 'I hate everything except CTF' would you actually remove most other modes?

No. :)

However - if everyone would say "remove localisation" or "remove subjective gameplay metrics", that's another story ;)