General behaviour and shit

[Andrez]

So, in the latest days most of you (at least the most active in the community) have seen, and eventually misunderstood some behaviour from moderators, due to 2 threads that disappeared someway, but if this happened, there's a reason. Although RandumKiwi has an incredible ego and some kind of annoying behaviour sometimes, he really knows what he does.

What I can't really get is this one (please note, it is not headed towards ShadowFlameZ himself, but everyone who thinks this):

Wonder how (1)CapCube is going.


Heil Sauerbraten.

Are you fucking serious? You are complaining about AC and the way it's made so much, that you're moving to Sauer, just because devs didn't even consider a tad of your suggestions?

What would AC become if EVERY SINGLE SUGGESTION would be taken into account?

Well, I'm talking as an user now, although I'm a moderator, but damn, do you even know how much time, effort, skills, and even money (hosting thing) does AC take to let you have fun a couple of hours a day?

Do you even consider that devs do this FOR FREE? And they even have to listen all of your cryings and complainings?

Once again, are you fucking serious? 'Threatening' to leave AC does not solve things, it just shows how much ungrateful you are towards devs' sweat and efforts to create such an awesome game, that is AC.

Last, but not least, experienced moderators know what to do, and RK is one of them, so don't think of any kind of censorship or dictatorship, because this kind of behaviour is punished among moderators, no one is left out.

Thank you for reading!

PS: I'm high right now, so pardon any mistake/typo...

[Skinny-Dog]

I agree with you

[#M|A#Wolf]

In complete agreement. Throwing shit at the devs will not make the development any faster. Yes it's a pain to wait, we all feel the same but cut them some slack for god's sake.

[Xenon]

agree with all. but many people who can code and do stuff to do with AC have been willing to help, but the devs have always said they do not need the help

[ExodusS]

The proving ground is made to link players with devs, I know they will not take every single suggestions into account, but in situations like this they must drop at least a word about it, and don't let the thread/idea alone. Lack of communication.
Btw: happy bday Andrez

[Skinny-Dog]

So, we need respecful and honest moderators?

[Bukz]

but the devs have always said they do not need the help

Wrong. We do need the help and have been openly taking it when ever we can get it. Felix-The-Ghost has been contributing lots of great code. If someone can help without attaching a bunch of strings to it, we're interested.

@Exoduss, lack of active experienced devs is the reason nothings been done about the sticky playermodels bug. You can stop using it against us now.

P.S. ATM, theres been 1,583 commits (and counting...) to the SVN repository since version 1.1.0.4 was tagged in r5882 - Don't act like the devs have not worked on it. If you're feeling really bored you can read through the commit logs yourself.

[Alien]

i have seen that long post quoting "elite" forum, and if it was deleted, i understand his angry face, the problem is some people dont understand who is master, in the real world it is user, the user is always right, it is fact and experience :) therefore the coders cannot communicate with user :P

[Cemer]

1.2 and ill never talk shit to bukz ever again

<3

[Nightmare]

Stayed up past midnight, took a few hours to put that thread together and had at least two devs say it was fine in the past and afterwards. This has happened a few times now. No point in contributing if the work gets ignored and moved or deleted. Give the threads back.

agree with all. but many people who can code and do stuff to do with AC have been willing to help, but the devs have always said they do not need the help

Tell them to pm me please.

[ExodusS]

You can stop using it against us now.

It was not the point, and do you really see it as a weapon against you? lol

[Jg99]

I like AC. I just don't like some of the server admins...

[Undead]

I like AC. I just don't like some of the server admins...

le thread des citations

lol btw i don't agree with you andre

[Cleaner]

I like AC. I just don't like some of the server admins...

What has this got to do with this thread?

[Nightmare]

Y u no give threads back?!

[Andrez]

lol btw i don't agree with you andre

[Mr.Floppy]

It's kind of sad to see how this nice little community has turned into a place full of hate and nonsense...

Some guys in here are treating the game like it was a fucked up beta piece of crap filled with more bugs than functions and not at all playable. What's the problem actually? Yes, I'm looking forward to 1.2 going live myself, but if it takes another 6 months so be it. If the current version was such a pain, how you ever happened to get involved enough to even complain about it in here? That doesn't make any sense. By the way, anyone who's claiming to be around since 0.93 should know better.

I see those pro-players complaining the game was no more competitive, especially the public servers were nothing but a playground for noobs and newbies. At the same time the same guys tell they do not play pubs at all. Well, do I even have to explain what's wrong here?

...and the neverending map discussion. Honestly guys, you've got one of the easiest to use built-in-mapeditors, a rather simple to manage server and loads of maps out there already. Pretty much anything it needs to fill those servers with a great varity of maps.

In my opinion this used to work way better back with 0.93, even though you were able to play at different map-versions. Seems like the general acceptance to 'unknown' maps has terribly decreased for whatever reasons. In fact, the best way to empty a server today is to load up a decent custom map.

As far as I'm aware, quite some time ago now, MeatRome and makkE have even considered to completey leave the map-topic to the community (hint: cmp) and stop adding maps to the official list in first place. Unfortunatelly, this would require a community which isn't too busy spamming a forum instead of getting some things done themselves.

However, I guess the situation is just lost and we can only hope there will always be some devs left, willing to spend their spare time on keeping this great game up and running.

[|HP|]

I see those pro-players complaining the game was no more competitive, especially the public servers were nothing but a playground for noobs and newbies. At the same time the same guys tell they do not play pubs at all. Well, do I even have to explain what's wrong here?

maybe they dont play pubs because of:

1. Shotgunners (+ maps too crowded)
2. Too many people on maps that are not built to sustain that many players?
3. Teamkillers (shotgun usually)
4. Unfair teams (server tries to balance stuff automatically and it usually fails and just makes it annoying)
5. Sticky player bug (+ maps too crowded)

I play pubs sometimes because i dont give a crap if i i get tked or if teams are unfair or if the whole pub match was stupid... not everyone thinks like that.

[MathiasB]

maybe they dont play pubs because of:

1. Shotgunners (+ maps too crowded)
2. Too many people on maps that are not built to sustain that many players?
3. Teamkillers (shotgun usually)
4. Unfair teams (server tries to balance stuff automatically and it usually fails and just makes it annoying)
5. Sticky player bug (+ maps too crowded)

I play pubs sometimes because i dont give a crap if i i get tked or if teams are unfair or if the whole pub match was stupid... not everyone thinks like that.

I disagree... First of all, the ladder servers are not full of noobs.
Besides, if a server has a map you don't like, why going to an empty server and wait a bit?

[Boomhauer]

stoopid thread

[Mr.Floppy]

maybe they dont play pubs because of:

1. Shotgunners (+ maps too crowded)
2. Too many people on maps that are not built to sustain that many players?
3. Teamkillers (shotgun usually)
4. Unfair teams (server tries to balance stuff automatically and it usually fails and just makes it annoying)
5. Sticky player bug (+ maps too crowded)

I'm not going to say this is a list of poor excuses, but this game used to suffer from really bad bugs (just picture you could get stuck on any map-geometry or just spawn right into a mapmodel and get stuck there), yet the game hasn't died. Well, let's have a look at those points:

1. I don't see how this even is an arguement, sorry.
2. You still can play servers with sane maxclient-settings.
3. Teamkilling is part of the game and in my personal opinion it's not worse than it always used to be. Of course, others may experience differently.
4. I agree, this can be annoying.
5. To be honest, I never really experienced this and just read about this the first time today on some other thread.

However, you missed the point. I was talking about the lack of competitve games on public servers, most likely because of the lack of competitve players willing to join the pubs.

[Nightmare]

1. Shotgunners (+ maps too crowded)
2. Too many people on maps that are not built to sustain that many players?
3. Teamkillers (shotgun usually)
4. Unfair teams (server tries to balance stuff automatically and it usually fails and just makes it annoying)
5. Sticky player bug (+ maps too crowded)

Would love pubs with maps built for the amount of players usually seen, no autoteam, and no friendly fire.

---

It's kind of sad to see how this nice little community has turned into a place full of hate and nonsense...

http://forum.cubers.net/thread-6677-post...#pid127376
Community y u so mean?!

A little positiveness & optimism from the dev team goes a long way.
Arguing with players hurts, whether the dev is right or not.

[Cleaner]

Also, how servers owners/admins regulates them has got nothing at all to do with ac devs/admins/mods

[|HP|]

tralalala

Yes teamkilling is a part of ac and it was just made easier to do with a shotgun. Maybe its just me and everyone that has a shotgun always aims to tk me.. maybe im special like that?

"1. I don't see how this even is an arguement, sorry."

ok lets put it this way..
why was shotgun "fixed" in SVN ?
Because it is shit now?

Ever experienced shutgun camping?
Ever experienced getting splattered around every corner while you have the flag? (i guess this will be the same in next version)
If you like fast gameplay, you will get splattered a lot!
You dont see how this could annoy people?

Its not like that in every map, but in... for example des3 it is!

I dont like the shotgun as a weapon in this game, thats all!
Anyway, my whole post was like a question...because im not sure.

[ExodusS]

1. Shotgunners (+ maps too crowded)
2. Too many people on maps that are not built to sustain that many players?
3. Teamkillers (shotgun usually)
4. Unfair teams (server tries to balance stuff automatically and it usually fails and just makes it annoying)
5. Sticky player bug (+ maps too crowded)

1. I don't see how this even is an arguement, sorry.
2. You still can play servers with sane maxclient-settings.
3. Teamkilling is part of the game and in my personal opinion it's not worse than it always used to be. Of course, others may experience differently.
4. I agree, this can be annoying.
5. To be honest, I never really experienced this and just read about this the first time today on some other thread.

Well, this is kinda funny because... mmh this list is the exact one we made with Sanzo and Lucas. We both started playing AC again, and actually it's really hard to find "good" matches/inters, so we spend most of our time on publics.
I will not speak about ac_douze players at all.
The public skill level has never been that low, only 2 servers provide a decent maprot (an official/decent custom map out of ac_douze) or "almost" a decent maprot (some wild ac_village and ac_village2 appear from nowhere). Of course there are always some good players, but we are far from old TyD/Hi-skill ladder, so far...

1. I don't know if shotgunners are the real problem, IMO AR's are much stronger, when I see some fresh unarmeds who kill me without moving at their spawn, it makes me rage a bit.

2. Yes, there is too many players on little maps, 14 players on shine is impossible to play correctly, same for gothic, depot, werk and any of those maps, it looks like server admins don't listen mappers indications.
Maps like iceroad, keller, power and arabian (wow already 4 huge maps, and official!) are never played but they are more adapted to the acual situation, larger corridors, more rooms/paths is much enjoyable.

3. Teamkill is not the only problem, well, team damages are here and we must deal with it, but friendly fire are too much, it's almost impossible to slash an oponent without getting teamkilled/shotted, and those newcomers are owning their teamates with the powerfull AR, 2 bullets and you are at 52HP...I will not speak about teamsplats...

4. Unfair teams, it's a real issue, since the server is always shuffling when it's not needed and using the wrong switch (the best or second best player is moved to the other team) wich makes team even more unfair. Plus those shuffles are ruining the scoreboard, and team scores have no value at all (the switch will often make the losing team winning). Team spirit have no place in public because of this, best players will be forced in the bad team, this is not really what they deserve...

5. Sticky players is a real problem but only on little maps, elevation is such a pain to play in public, even alone you can stuck yourself on ladders and corners, and any gate is widder than 6 cubes so your teammate must be stick to a side of the gate if you want to trough the gate without getting stuck.

Also, how servers owners/admins regulates them has got nothing at all to do with ac devs/admins/mods

I think devs have the power to make server admins aware of mapper's choices.

[Mr.Floppy]

HP, I agree that getting knocked out by a lucky shotgun hit out of nowhere sometimes is rather frustrating. It often feels like a cheap frag for the other guy, since in such situations as you explained, you've got no real fight. People are complaining about that on any FPS I have been/am playing.

However, this pretty much also applies for sniper-headshots or well put grenades. So where does this leave us?

When it comes to teamkilling, I guess those guys would (accidently) shoot you no less with any other weapon, though of course the threat of instant death isn't that high. Yes, I get what you're saying. Though, this really only becomes that nasty on crowded servers, which again is a matter of the server's maxclients.

In order to take up on your conclusion. "The shotgun got fixed because it was shit now." Well, the shotgun attack got completely reworked, because the original code was a little to simplistic and the line of fire happened to be sort of 'random' and unpredictable. In fact the shotgun has become way more precise now. Some might say higher precision makes a weapon stronger. At least that's how I see it...

Long story even longer: I'm not interested in big discussion actually. I've shared my point of view regarding two major issues, which some people like to throw at some dev-team, while those are more likely concerns a community has to deal with. Of course you can disagree and voice your arguements, but I didn't ask why people avoid the pubs. After all, if people don't like the game the are all free not to play it and it this respect stay away from the forum. I'm fine with that.

@Nightmare: I've no idea what you're trying to say, but to be honest I don't care anyway.

[Waffles]

competitive players don't play pubs because it lacks the precision and teamwork that they get accustomed to in match play. There have been varying discussions about what could make that better and I believe it's a number of things. The most apparent issues addressed would be server maxclient. No need for 20 people playing douze or the like. But if you infringed upon the rights of server owners there would be some backlash. Isn't maxclient already reduced in the next version?
one of the better changes for pub play

teamkilling is a natural part of any gun fight, but with most common fps nowadays the player can choose to play at a beginner, intermediate, or pro level setting. AC has no such tiers (which im a fan of) but maybe having two modes, competitive (teamkilling, etc.) and casual (no teamkilling/percentage of team bleeding damage reduced) would make the game a little easier to get into. But if we're talking of increasing the quality of pubs, that seems counter-intuitive.

max of 12 players in a server, with a caviot within map-rot files that there be at least one custom map, could increase interest. More servers would be full more often, and a wider player base may change where they go based on who's got the best maprot. that theory exists now, but unfortunately it falls flat due to either too strict server rules with not enough admins, or too lenient server rules where anybody can spam vote whatever the fuck.

balance and the like will come with time, the attitude of ego-maniacs will not. it might be good for all the competitive players to leave and let the new generation become the new pros.

[Undead]

lol btw i don't agree with you andre

image

i can't believe you looked up that .gif, copied the link, and put it into image tags, all just for me.

u really do care :D:D

I disagree... First of all, the ladder servers are not full of noobs.

i really shouldn't be able to get a massive ratio and multiple flags on pubs with a knife. i'm also not the only one capable of such an illustrious feat, most people at my skill level can pull it off. unless of course, the server is full of noobs.

[Stranz]

I don't know how much you can do as server hoster and admin, but for competitive scene over public servers, there should be a group that enhances this and set the standard for others, normal servers and hardcore servers (or a customized one, with any rules hoster wants) doesn't sound like a bad idea to me, some other kind of limitations would be indeed beneficial and help others to get into to the game and show another perspective of AC competitive side.

It would sort of fix the problem but not completely (can cause more problems sadly) although with restrictive rules and active admins on this servers it could be much more easy to get people that wants to a have decent game going playing into this servers (making inters instead doesn't cut it for me, i hop in others fps in pubs with people that i don't know, still, i see teamwork or at least sense of doing something for the objective).

Trolling or teamkilling would be non existent (3 tks= kicked, cant join for 5 minutes, joins again tks 3 times again banned for 2 hours, or a straight forward kick/ban from the admin with a warning), restrictive max players (per map/mode), not allowing voting same map twice, weapon restriction (just an idea), maprot selected by their own players via poll vote in some thread around here (season maprot), a ladder system (having the same current ladder servers using this rules implemented) etc. It could live of the same dedicated players that come by, the rules by default would be fair as all the clans themselves would agree with them (admins) by giving feedback on their clan forums or directly on AC forums.

This is all impractical, i know. But if you have a strong need to get competitive players together it would be fair at least to have guidelines to new people that AC has other nuances on its gameplay, they will feel more interested on choosing what they want, or at least be aware that this competitive thing exist.

[DamDam]

Although RandumKiwi has an incredible ego and some kind of annoying behaviour sometimes, he really knows what he does.

Then could he explain himself on why he did that? Because it's not quite clear for most people considering Nightmare had the permissions to do it. Besides the fact that he did not appreciate things that were said in this thread, I can't really see a valid reason.

Are you fucking serious? You are complaining about AC and the way it's made so much, that you're moving to Sauer, just because devs didn't even consider a tad of your suggestions?

People are moving to Sauer not only because devs don't consider their suggestions. They move because the game is more active, different, interesting, the community is nice, competitive aswell as pub scene are both fun to play and they don't feel like the game has been "stucked" for 2 years (ik devs are working, but the non-release is frustrating :/)

What would AC become if EVERY SINGLE SUGGESTION would be taken into account?

Ofc taking every suggestion into account is not the solution, otherwise it'd be such a mess. But I believe some suggestions were great and lots of people thought the same, however, most of those ideas were rejected or not implemented for some (unknown?) reasons.

The main thing reproached to devs isn't that they're not working (because some obviously are), it's simply that they have a massive work, and seem not to want to share a part of their task when many people are ready to help. And then when people cry/whine about the late release, they respond that they "don't have enough people to fix bugs and help the release"... paradoxal uh?

Do you even consider that devs do this FOR FREE? And they even have to listen all of your cryings and complainings?

Well when you develop a public game, you basically do it for those who play it. When you develop for free, the only difference is that the community shouldn't expect something from you, as you do it for free, you don't DUE anything because it is not a job. But when people from the community are ready to give their help & knowledge for free, to make the game better, why don't you accept it?

Last, but not least, experienced moderators know what to do, and RK is one of them, so don't think of any kind of censorship or dictatorship, because this kind of behaviour is punished among moderators, no one is left out.

I'm not on the AC forums for very long, but correct me if i'm wrong; RK was active back in 1.0 version and was part of the dev team, during 1.1, i hardly ever heard about him being active on the AC forums but he's been back for like... 6 months?
Anyway, since he's back, i've notice that he has banned several persons everytime they would complain about something related to devs. Before he came back, I can not remember that many ban entries and not even a week after he came back active on the forums, he started the "stfu or ban" campaign.

I don't really appreciate the fact that some mods "allow themself" to remove, delete or silence what people want to say as soon as it's criticisms or remarks. If people who develop the game do not accept criticsm, advices or help... what are we left to?
Be quiet, and wait some more months sticking to AC ? People do not want that and it's basically the reason why people are leaving AC..

PS : Don't delete my post again Cleaner please :)