05 Dec 12, 09:26PM
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skill difference
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06 Dec 12, 01:59AM
If people don't see it as a point in taking some of their free time to actually play more and get better, imo they don't deserve to have the skill of players that have played for years and are one of the best.
06 Dec 12, 02:19AM
(05 Dec 12, 10:23AM)SKB Wrote: You realise you want to ruin the game so low tier players could feel warm and fuzzy inside? mmk...i would like to make a public apology to everyone. my intent was NOT to make low tier players feel all warm and fuzzy inside. my intent on this thread was just to think of some ways we could get more players to join the community because all i here is the nonstop bitching about how no one plays anymore and everyone is leaving. thanks for the discussion. i just wanted to see how everyone feels about such an issue. so yea.....my bad.....just trying to help.....  (06 Dec 12, 02:47AM)ShadowFlameZ Wrote: ... no. i didnt act like everyone was trolling me. i responded to comments and i was participating in the conversation. and yes, some of their comments were trolling (RR for example). but i didnt blow up at him or anything...i concentrated on the more serious contributors to the conversation, considered their points, and offered some of my own. until you man up and start posting threads of your own in an attempt to improve this community, i dont think you have much to say on how i react to forum discussion.
06 Dec 12, 03:03AM
(06 Dec 12, 02:53AM)MerCyKiL Wrote: until you man up and start posting threads of your own in an attempt to improve this community, i dont think you have much to say on how i react to forum discussion.What? Dude, I am not criticizing you. I'm just saying you don't need to feel bad (see what I quoted in my original post), you're doing fine. It's nice that you want to improve this community, and you got a discussion going. 
06 Dec 12, 05:29AM
Nah, that wasn't trolling. I saw opportunity to use irony to prove my pont, and I took it.
06 Dec 12, 06:19AM
 
06 Dec 12, 07:19AM
Ac was competitive with nubs and pro playing at once. made the game look easy and hard at the same time xD. Now its just lame.
06 Dec 12, 07:30AM
maybe it's lame in pubs because the "pros" aren't playing pubs.
i know personally that I like to play pubs on occasion, usually under alias to avoid everyone asking me for 2v2s or just generally chatting shit. Counter that with everyone calling aliased players hackers, and it turns into a ridiculous playing environment for both "low skills" and "pros." I think jamz said it best "self-aggrandizing douchebags." everybody's got an opinion, but "if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem." 
06 Dec 12, 07:33AM
Your suggestion "crosshair changing viewing ennemie" help just to visualise the game .
Your skill are the same . The game is ever easy . You can win versus pro like you can lost versus noob . Assault cube is not just shoot . You must to know your bad skill and play with your adventage . (05 Dec 12, 09:56AM)XFA Wrote: Undead is right, the answer is re-balancing the weapons you completely missed the point of my post. i'm quite sure everyone did actually, it wasn't a weapon whine. Undead Wrote:if you want better players, find a way to get new players to stick around and give them a way to play in a match environment with people at their level. the most important bit is getting new players to stick around. they aren't getting frustrated by the difficulty of the game, because a game of ac_douze helps anyone get a kill, but frustrated by the game itself and bored by it, there isn't much reward or an "xp jitter" when you kill someone, you can get killed for reasons completely beyond your control all the time, extremely frustrating and makes kills seem not worth it when you can just slapped in the face by a shotgun at any time in a 10v10 ac_shine. 10v10 isn't good in AC, and you cannot balance both randomized pub gameplay and structured match gameplay. decent players only play pubs because of a lack of better options and to rape noobs. if you want the greatest, most time consuming and probably slightly expensive solution to the issue of players leaving that I can think of, offer an inbuilt matchmaking system that puts players up against other players of similar skill, present it as the first option in AC, and have matches other than 1v1/2v2/3v3 under a custom list, along with gemas and custom modes. encouraging an AC mod community couldn't hurt either. there is a very good reason why games such as league of legends and starcraft are absurdly popular, and it doesn't have everything to do with gameplay. i absolutely guarantee with the implementation of such a system, people will be driven to play AC and increase their rank/level/whatever, get them a bit addicted and stick around, perhaps room for a bit of monetizing too. a proper user interface would be fabulous as well. another way to get players to stick around would be to somehow make AC more aesthetic and put it on the par of other popular games, could be a bit of a slap in the head, maybe if the game wants to get exponentially more popular it needs to move onto another engine.
a built in way to find matches would easily suit the needs of getting people familiar with the game and draw in the people that want a deeper understanding of the team work. I didn't respond to your post undead because I agree with it so much already.
EDIT: did 888 just call me a noob? i really can't tell. (05 Dec 12, 01:19PM)Cemer Wrote: mid skill clans die out really fast, so there is not as easy a learning curve it is also difficult for higher leveled clans to survive as well, the community at that level is packed with assholes with only a select few players showing any respect, making it harder to get matches happening, with members in every clan acting like pricks, but the players seem to become more assholeish and less willing to help as the level goes down(it reaches asshole valhalla at about rC and BoB's level), although when the skill level gets to around B}'s level they are completely lacking of assholes. really, how is a mid level clan meant to survive when nobody wants to play them in a clan match besides oNe and MyS, who already struggle to find matches at THEIR level. the system i'm suggesting allows for the propagation of mid leveled competitively minded clans. a friends system/login system in AC would also help too.
06 Dec 12, 08:18AM
How would the game decide what skill level you're at? Would there be some kind of level or xp system or what exactly?
06 Dec 12, 08:27AM
algorithms that rank you based on pre-existing rank and results against said opponents. a new clan plays oNe for example, they lose but do fairly well. They go on to beat some other clan. They then get ranked in between oNe and said clan. teams get ranked based on 3v3/2v2/1v1 stats and a possible grand-ranking of all said stats combined. I'm not the best with math or what should be considered valuable stats, but I'm sure this game has plenty of well qualified mathematicians.
(06 Dec 12, 08:18AM)#M|A#Wolf Wrote: How would the game decide what skill level you're at? Would there be some kind of level or xp system or what exactly? no, we all know amount of time played != skill. i'm not a programmer or a mathematician or anything so there is certainly a much better system that could be implemented, but i'd imagine it would involve something like: you win vs players ranked higher than you = +20 points you win vs players ranked lower than you = +10 points you lose vs players ranked higher than you = -10 points you lose vs players ranked lower than you = -20 points you can kind of "party up" with a team or play solo and get matched up with other players, sort of like an inter. not based on ratio, but whether you win the game, so players actually co-operate to win. it should require 6 hours(something of the sort) of unranked match gameplay(not pubs) to level up(this is important to introduce an xp jitter as soon as you start playing) to a point where you can get into ranked, as well as to discourage people from making multiple accounts when they get banned for cheating/flaming/whatever. people may not want to play in such pressurized ranked gameplay, so this is why unranked 1v1/2v2/3v3 is available as well as pubs/mods/gemas. if the gameplay of AC itself becomes better designed and structured, not talking about balance, along with other changes such as aesthetic improvements, the infrastructure will help so god damn much and with the proper advertisement of AC the game will become exponentially more popular. (06 Dec 12, 08:18AM)#M|A#Wolf Wrote: How would the game decide what skill level you're at? Would there be some kind of level or xp system or what exactly? The matchmaking system undead is talking about is based on an Matchmaking rating (MMR) which is used in Starcraft 2. Elo is a system that was developed for chess and inherited in many other games like poker and League of Legends. (06 Dec 12, 08:30AM)Undead Wrote: but i'd imagine it would involve something like: I can only tell by myself playing CF and it works exactly like that. And you can actually perceive a huge improvement in terms of activity by players and clans. Would be great to see that in AC. A little additional idea: If your team including you rage quit during a match, you do lose the most possible points (in undead's example like -25 or -30 points) to avoid people doing that.
06 Dec 12, 04:06PM
(06 Dec 12, 08:30AM)Undead Wrote:(06 Dec 12, 08:18AM)#M|A#Wolf Wrote: How would the game decide what skill level you're at? Would there be some kind of level or xp system or what exactly? i like this
06 Dec 12, 04:45PM
Im my opinion the biggest problem in AC is the lag issue. On your screen you are definetely hitting your enemy, but you dont receive any hitsounds or at all he isnt dieing. If you will watch the demo you will say wth that are two different pictures.
Futhermore hitreg can be improved still in my opinion, especially for smg. In comparison to other games that i have played there isnt such a bad hitregistration and lag like in AC. Most of all this is of course due to the connection and stable fps each player have and as well how stable the server is and where each player is living. Moreover the current weapon balance (1.1.0.4) hasnt been perfect yet in my opinion. I think the smg is still a "bit" too weak, really just a bit compared to the AR, especially if there is a greater ping difference between each player (smg is more affected by "lags"). Unlike in 1.0.4, everyone (like 90 % of the better players in AC) is using now AR instead of smg or sniper, probably due to the higher amount of kevlar (helmets). As well the public games arent anymore so "competive" like in the past. Just remember the HI-SKILL-Server or Wotan-Fragland which were hosted by Drakas and where it was not quite easy to get a free slot. A "overpowered" AR in this version isnt saying anything about skills in my mind. Also the amount of "elite" players has decreased, a part of them left with the ending of 1.0.4 and just a few returned. Seriously some players have improved a lot, but most of them are old players and not new talents and on the other hand the amount of "noobs" has improved dramastically. This game is living from players and competition. We need to attract new players. First of all we need to fix the anti-cheat or need to release a client like the one of rofl for important tournaments. Then we should try to include our game to ESL for example. At all we need more competive events, for instance a ladder/league like in sauerbraten (swl/psl) and ofc an acwc every year. Also the "marketing" should be improved, the results of the most important leagues/ladders/tourneys should be added to ac wiki for example. Another negative aspect that i have observed is that modes like tosok, lss and tdm are dieing. These modes should be added to some tourneys, this would improve "skills" of each player. Also i would like to see some old maps re-added to the map-pool. Summarized, about following points we should think:
06 Dec 12, 04:50PM
(05 Dec 12, 07:01AM)MerCyKiL Wrote: some people dont have the resources to get a good mouse. 1. my mouse costed me 50 cents and i dont consider myself a noob. 2. you want to make fragging easier for noobs, but then you also making it easier for the pro's. that seems like a bad solution to me
06 Dec 12, 05:10PM
(06 Dec 12, 04:50PM)Marti Wrote: 2. you want to make fragging easier for noobs, but then you also making it easier for the pro's. that seems like a bad solution to me Making fragging easier for pros makes fragging more a matter of awareness, and like Waffles, I think this would be good. Also I don't disagree with many points of Elite, but would mention the hitreg issues he notes are almost-certainly due to high spread!
06 Dec 12, 05:28PM
He's arguing that the point in making kill times quicker would increase the value in being more aware in a match (could also be transferred to public servers I guess). I personally disagree since more discussions about spread would probably eventuate as a result, and plus there are very few times when you camp behind an enemy, shoot him and do not make the kill, that genuinely only happens in cases of extreme lag or if you mis-aim, in which case you should be the one dying lol.
Furthermore this feature could ruin the fast gameplay of AC (as contradictory as that sounds to the original idea), since spawnrape will become overpowered. Just imo. 
Haha Wolf, like if Xenon would be considered as an "elite" player on 1.0 or before.
LordzZ was the kid superhero, he owned at sniper, and he was far better than any sniper who came out on the 1.1. 
06 Dec 12, 06:50PM
@elite :I agree about the hitsounds. When you play someone with a ridiculously 300 ping, you will hit him but you wont hear any hitsounds or maybe few seconds later. Quite boring when you are used to correct your aim depending on hitsounds.
Also the smg is a bit weaker than AR in 1.1.0.4 (yeah long range and kevlar make AR much better but we can deal with it depending the map and the way you control kevlar) but in the SVN the AR suck. Mainly because it has been downgrade to 15 bullets. I didn't meet yet someone who agree with this. y u no listen to community devs? Also I have downloaded and installed some old AC version to watch old demos (you can find some demos of the last ACWC on woop's website). And while I was spectating players you are calling 'old pro', I realize that they weren't that good compare to some of the players you are calling 'noobs who improved dramatically'. I didn't learn anything at all from these demos!!! I would learn more things spectating 'noobs who improved dramatically' today. Our knowledge of the game has improved in many way since 0.93 and the way we are playing it is more 'pro' now (I mean how many clans were using teamspeak or useful scripts). I bet some mid skill 1.1.0.4 clan could dominate pretty well in 0.93.
06 Dec 12, 11:21PM
(06 Dec 12, 06:50PM)Edward Wrote: Also I have downloaded and installed some old AC version to watch old demos (you can find some demos of the last ACWC on woop's website). And while I was spectating players you are calling 'old pro', I realize that they weren't that good compare to some of the players you are calling 'noobs who improved dramatically'. I didn't learn anything at all from these demos!!! I would learn more things spectating 'noobs who improved dramatically' today. I didnt say noobs improved dramatically, i say the amount of noobs increased like hell. I said some average players from 1.0.4 improved a lot, probably due to the strong AR, especially if you have to fight them with smg and seriously only a part improved their skills other got sronger because of a stronger AR. Everyone used smg/sniper in old times so skills were more compareable, well nowadays its also compareable between AR to AR, but you cant value skills difference if two guys are playing different weapons (AR and smg), since one of them (smg) is probably weaker. Just remember Chin@, Wolf, (Seagal) from oNe or w00ps including tenshi and majikal as well as Marreira, nocu, Arimane, Carnifex, TheRock and few more, these are players who are missing nowadays to have a great competition. The amount of "elite" players were really bigger in the past, and these players were really owning others constantly and now the gap got closer imo. The game need such heros and if there enough of these players, its more competition as well the amount of competive players is growing normally. Well, you can still have great competition within a few clans, but less than in the past and thats a bit sad. |
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