Modding playermodels

[Waffles]

I recently sent some PMs out because I've had an idea for awhile. Making a playermodel that was actually indicative of the hitbox. I've grown tired of shooting and clearly hitting what I think is a shoulder/foot but ends up being nebulous space. I've also noticed that there is some space around the back/front area that is not really "true" hitbox material. I've consulted a few people about the /dghbox problem of wire frames.

My question is, would it be ethical/fair to implement a playermodel that only was the hitbox?

Cheers

[Mael]

No. For the same reason /dbghbox was not fair. It grossly enlarges enemy players. They may be seen around corners before they can see you.

It would also be ugly as sin.

[Nightmare]

Maybe the devs can make the playermodel & hitbox more synced by default. :3

[Waffles]

It's not really aesthetics I'm worried about. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'd like to hear more opinions on this. The whole argument "it could be available to everyone" etc. etc.
I know that the ability to have the same advantages does not mean everyone will have that advantage. From those few I've talked to, most are in agreement, but what if the box was smaller than hit boxes? say, the box is as slim as the current playermodel, and the head is the same size as current, it wouldn't give an advantage but would be more bare bones. I feel like I'd have an easier time aiming at a box than aiming at nebulous nothingness, even if it was smaller.

[aNytHe0ne]

It isn't exactly fair either if you hit the player model but it doesn't register. Some players will also have better understanding of how the hitboxes work than others.

This certainly hurts sniper/carbine players more than AR/SMG players.

It would also be ugly as sin.

This is the reason why such a problem exists: the majority of players care more about aesthetics than gameplay (even in AC).

I fully agree with Waffles.

[Minty]

Highest visibility I can get is with /texreduce -1 and setting the model skins to full team color.

[YesWeCamp]

Highest visibility I can get is with /texreduce -1 and setting the model skins to full team color.

Its maybe just me, but do tell me: what is the fun of playing a shooter that looks more like tetris than like an actual shooter? :)

[Nightmare]

F1 I hate the no textures look. Placebo Effect #45

[aNytHe0ne]

Highest visibility I can get is with /texreduce -1 and setting the model skins to full team color.

Its maybe just me, but do tell me: what is the fun of playing a shooter that looks more like tetris than like an actual shooter? :)

1. Eye candy is there just for mapping/modding/movies/whatever creative purposes. People who actually play the game want to focus on the game and not visuals.

2. We are not talking about player model visibility or graphics here.

We are talking about the fact that player models are not sized the same as the hitbox and as a result your bullets will sometimes hit even if you miss the player model and sometimes they will miss even if you hit the player model.

The solution doesn't necessarily have to be very ugly: a transparent box in front of the player model to show the hitbox would be enough.

Just a little clarification:
- hitbox is where your bullets actually register when they hit it. You can't see the hitbox.
- player model doesn't do anything, it's just a what you see (it's in front of the hitbox to make it look nice).

[Waffles]

The fun of the game to me is not the visuals. If i wanted to play a pretty game I'd play chrysis or some shit.

I had conversation with my brother when i first got a playstation. I was playing final fantasy tactics and he was like "looks like shit" (it does) but for me, it's fun. Strategy and tactics are more important than seeing a dude with a gasmask and not being able to hit it.

I've already asked some people to do this, but I want to gauge more of the community response if there'd actually be an issue/would be considered cheating or an unfair advantage.

[TheNihilanth]

How do the hitbox system in ac works then? I would expect localized damage as in any other game. How many hitboxes is comprised the player model and where are located those hitboxes?

Since .md2 format does not support skeletal animation, do you store a hitbox for every frame? I guess not. Can someone clarify on this?

[YesWeCamp]

Strategy and tactics are more important than seeing a dude with a gasmask and not being able to hit it.

Agreed, but i do love ac visuals. Next to that minimizing the already quite minimized visuals would make it a bit msdos gaming lol. But Of course you do as you like! I would personally never play with textreduce and the like because for me its not fun to play like that.

But yes i do agree that making the playermodel the hitbox would be better. But im not a coder so i dont know what are the pros and cons on that.

[BigGunZ]

Hitboxes do need to more accurately match playermodels. This needs to be added to a future version AC though, not as a mod. If you can see any area of a player outside of the playermodel that is hit-able and i cannot, you have an unfair advantage.

[Waffles]

im not saying to have it be exactly the size of the hitbox (which would be slightly larger than the playermodel). I am fine to be able to see slightly less total hitbox in favor of having myself be able to see exactly what im actually shooting at. The head hitbox would be normal ofc.

If the hitbox problem was fixed then i'd much rather play with a playermodel. And many people would say that this a small deal. But it certainly gets annoying when the difference of getting a frag and not is a small bit.

[Mael]

If you can see any area of a player outside of the playermodel that is hit-able and i cannot, you have an unfair advantage.

We need to get the exact shape and dimensions of the hitboxes and release that information publicly. Yes it's available in the source and anyone can dig it out if they want but it would do some good to put the information somewhere it is easy to find here on the site.

Once that information is released we clearly state that playermodels must not exceed the bounds of the hitboxes. Additionally release a second playermodel that reflects the exact hitbox. It will be ugly but those who want to play competitively and want every edge they can get will use it.

This is the only way I know to fairly allow users to mod the playermodel without cries of abuse because one model is slightly larger or reflects the hitbox slightly better than others.

The problem is, IIRC, the hitbox is something like an octagonal prism standing on one end. It does a terrible job of reflecting the shape of the players. It might be a good idea to tweak the hitbox.

Is there really a reason for having such a simple hitbox at this point? I'm positive hit detection is not going to be a bottleneck. It could not possibly be that resource heavy. I've done hit detection of my own among dozens of objects more complicated than an octagonal prism and it was never a problem.

I won't say that this needs to be done but it is the only way I can imagine allowing playermodel mods. We need to be able to definitively say what is fair and what is not otherwise we will end up going through that brightskins bullshit again.

[Waffles]

I agree completely mael. It's not about detection for me. It's about personal preference for the eyes. Like i've stated previously, i don't care about having that "seeing round corners one millisecond before the other" nonsense. I just want an accurate target to be trying to aim at and I don't think that is too much to ask. reforming the hitbox itself would be a great step in the right direction for play in general though.

[ElCrema]

In can't imagine a hit box change being that hard either, afaik that was done concerning the head hit box from 1.0 to 1.1, right? I like Waffles/Mael's idea, the discrepancies between hit box and player model should be minimal. What happens now (to me) is that the player model makes me instintcly aim dead central to the torso while I would problably get better results aiming for the legs and working my way up using recoil.
Seeing exactly what you shooting at certanly wouldn't hurt...

[BigGunZ]

I'm for Mael's idea. Although if an option isn't built-in to the game a large percent of AC players would still have no idea that the ability exists.

[ExodusS]

The ability to have the same advantages does not mean everyone will have that advantage.

lol