[split] Bench Blacklist

[Bench]

name: O3|Bench
reason: wall hack (see through walls)
evidence: http://www.mediafire.com/?jb9ur7d21qq5ts4 or http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3SRC5BW8
95.222.87.220

Before anyone starts with the flames, yes, I know some people don't agree that wall hack can be seen in a demo. If you are one of them, just ignore this post. I can't be bothered to get into another fight over this, but at the same time I hate people cheating on my server. I'm not going to go through the demo in depth this time, but it's easiest to see in the second half of the match when it goes down to 4 players. He has clear knowledge of the opponents position, far beyond what can be explained by sound cues.

Yes, I'm the antichrist and some of you hate me, blah blah, heard it all before. Enjoy the demo.

Are you taking drugs?

Mod edit: Split with quote of BL as a reminder.

[Mai Mee Tur]

This would be best kept to a PM, Bench, not something you should post on the Blacklist thread.

[Bench]

I agree.

[Vlad]

lol, boring tosok in desert with teamspeak.
Soon the most part of community will be in blacklist report :)

[Undead]

lol, boring tosok in desert with teamspeak.
Soon the most part of community will be in blacklist report :)

yeah same lol

[unarmed]

I have also seen demo. No cheats in it.

@Bloodsport:Your report is a fake.
@Undead/Vlad: You are right

[vonunov]

I watched the demo and I agree with unarmed. This player is not cheating; he simply has an excellent understanding of how people tend to move in ac_desert and is also observant, such that he can guess where people are going to come out. He also has a superior movement strategy in that he moves back and forth, monitoring all entry points, rather than taking a continuous circuit around the map. We could all learn from him. I did not see anything that could not have been done without cheating and will not be adding this blacklist entry.

[Neon]

I watched the demo and I studied it, I see that he is cheating. He was following them through the wall way out of the range of hearing. And then bam! Someone happened to show up exactly when he got to the opening door. So I support Bloodsport 100% on his choice to blacklist him.

[Jason]

It's probable he may have cheated, but this is not strong enough to black list him. And now you have made him aware of suspicion, if he did cheat, he will not now. If you thought he cheated you should have played with him more and gathered more demos to get a strong analysis. Bench cannot be blacklisted for this.

Edit: Larry played Bench in OSOK, and I will say he was no-where near as good, he quit witht he socre being something like 15-3 to Larry (not exact score). Larry also is not a great OSOK player. Just thought that might be something of interest.

[Duckett]

I've played with Bench plenty of times, and I have to say that I do not at all believe he is cheating in any way. He is a very skilled member of AC, and I trust him to the fullest extent. I also have no need to watch this demo, although I might watch it.

[Mai Mee Tur]

You may want to watch the demo Elven, I'm in the middle of watching it

[Duckett]

I did watch it, I see nothing unorthadox. As Jack.is said

IThis player is not cheating; he simply has an excellent understanding of how people tend to move in ac_desert and is also observant, such that he can guess where people are going to come out. He also has a superior movement strategy in that he moves back and forth, monitoring all entry points, rather than taking a continuous circuit around the map.

[eftertanke]

I only saw three "Oh NICE!" shots. I would attribute them to experience and luck.

---

I have also seen demo. No cheats in it.

@Bloodsport:Your report is a fake.
@Undead/Vlad: You are right

LOL. That's a good way to get yourself BANNED.

[Bench]

Dear Gamers,

i am sorry but your discussions are ridiculous. This demo shows a standart Tosok-Match. Bloodsport is a blackbiter. There is no reason that justifies his weird actions. Further: If you watch the demo: Ask yourself, why nothing was said about "wallhack" in game.

Further: There are many players who are better in tosok than me. Are all people who are beating me easily cheaters too?

For all people who are interpreting "Wallhacks" in this demo: You havent understand how tosok works.

Its a breshness to call me cheater.

I expect an official apologize on www.only3.tk written by BLOODSPORT. If not, i will notify this as abusive blacklist-report made by Bloodsport. People like him should not have the right to blacklist people.

See you in game,

O3|Bench.


to Jack,Elven,eftertanke & unarmed: ty for your right assessment

to Neon: I am sry but your view is fully wrong like Jason one´s.

[Ronald_Reagan]

Bench, do not take it as a huge offense if he blacklists you. Everyone has the right to report people, however it is the server owners who eventually blacklists. What he can do is edit out his post on the BL thread if he admits he is wrong.

[#M|A#Wolf]

First Thorite, now Bench? :/

[Joe Smith]

ac_desert/tosok is a horrible map/mode to try to see if someone is wallhacking/cheating, 99% of AC players know that map more than any other map, its not at all hard to know where someone may be or not be. i watched the demo and i see no evidence from the demo it self that shows him cheating, the part i found iffy was between 430-422, but that again could just be luck. Dieing doesn't show knowledge of that person knowing were someone is. Also its a small map, your cross hair can cover most of the map with little movement.

[Fate]

I just saw the demo. Yeah it is easy to just say that he was wallhacking, however I believe he wasn't. Why? JohnnyBravO used teamspeak well, telling Bench where the enemy was. Also, he used sound. Some of his kills I could hear the opponent coming, and also, he just used his common sense by frequently checking doorways and common "pathways" players take in desert. Checking the map is useful, I could tell Bench did this because where his teammate(s) died is a very good hint as to where the enemy is. So then he can check the doorways/pathways leading out of that area.

And oh, predicting where the enemy is and where the enemy is going to is useful...very useful. :o

[ikljo]

In my opinion it would be unjust to openly say he is hacking based on this demo alone. I don't know if he did use hacks or if he didn't but in my opinion there are two many variables in this equation to firmly make a judgment. I am sure Bloodsport had the right intention of doing what he thought was right and posting what he thought was a possible cheater, but in my opinion in a case like this I think it comes down to the opinion of server owners. Those who believe he cheated will blacklist and those who don't, won't.

All I have left to say is:
"Every dog has it's day"

[jAcKRoCk*]

It's easy to predict movement in desert OSOK, most players have a rutine once you figure that out It's easy to predict how they play it.

[eftertanke]

Is there a problem?

If not this thread should be closed.

[Roflcopter]

I think he might have been wallhacking but only for a few reasons that are not nearly conclusive enough:

- He seems to have improved rather quickly since when I last played him at (T)OSOK

- His movement is very odd -- a few times while watching the demo I felt he was not being careful enough as if he knew a player would not attack from a certain direction -- even when I coudn't be sure watching the demo myself

- One part when he edges round a corner with his knife out where a player was standing is odd since I can't determine any stimulus which he could have acted on to know the player's location.

In his defence though:

- I played Bench recently and slaughtered him at OSOK ac_desert. However we played TOSOK ac_desert and he did far better -- he clearly knows players' movements well and this is further boosted by his enemy's predictable movement

- There were practically no times when I couldn't point to some method of sensing players he killed. A good headset provides alot of awareness -- if a player jumps his location is very audible with one

- External communications have not been disproved. So far we've assumed, negligently, that TS3 or Mumble were not being used by any player present

- Bench has not done anything suspicious previously (that I'm aware of)

- I've played OSOK since 0.93 -- I can promise you there were more suspicious demos of me than this. The majority of good players have met the same bar of suspiciousness that I subjectively feel this demo holds.

***

Keep innocent/ unproven players' IPs out of the blacklist thread! This demo is far too weak evidence.

[Neon]

-snipped-
- One part when he edges round a corner with his knife out where a player was standing is odd since I can't determine any stimulus which he could have acted on to know the player's location.
-snipped-

This is the part that set me on Bloodsport's side. This part clearly shows he knows exactly when to attack.

[eftertanke]

But only once. Besides reaction time could explain that.

[Neon]

But the things is ( For those who didn't watch them demo heres what exactly happened at this part. ) In the middle of ac_desert often referred to as the knife lane, Bench went on crouching as soon as entering the knife lane, 'pre'turned the corner into the little garden thing and boom! theres a Rap(b)id Viper Special Force (I think) member well for better terms a blue guy. Oh! forgot to mention Bench had his knife out upon entering the lane. Anyway he preceeded to knife but his teammate (= Bloodsport) killed the 'blue guy' before he knifed him. Thus proving Bench had a previous knowledge of the blue guys position.

[Joe Smith]

-snipped-
- One part when he edges round a corner with his knife out where a player was standing is odd since I can't determine any stimulus which he could have acted on to know the player's location.
-snipped-

This is the part that set me on Bloodsport's side. This part clearly shows he knows exactly when to attack.

if you watch the demo carefully you can see a blue player in the window, as bench was going right out of red, so in seeing the blue guy jump in the window, he went tunnel and crouched, to have a better advantage of no being hit, or to be less seen, then continued to knife. He saw the guy in the window, seeing someone does give you knowledge of where they are or will be.

[Bench]

Go on, it just keeps getting better and better!

[Joe Smith]

Go on, it just keeps getting better and better!

Bench if you are reading the posts correctly 85% of the people are on your side.

[Neon]

He saw the guy in the window, seeing someone does give you knowledge of where they are or will be.

i'll have to look into that....again!

[Bench]

to Joe Smith:
I know that and i am grateful for your right view ;)