CTF ac_douze

[Lantry]

It is the official version of Twin Towers.

Exactly! and twin towers eventually went away, right? oh wait...

Anyway, the best thing you can do to reduce the amount of people playing on douze is to not play on douze, and f2 it when it is voted on. Exercise your political efficacy!

[jAcKRoCk*]

Democracy rules, That's why majority ALWAYS wins, never the less Let's not kill our hopes and dreams and enjoy a nice tdm match of douze, who's with me.

[Brahma]

What you do not understand is that the newbs think "more is better".

When they enter in an open map like ac_douze, they get orgasms seeing 10 players at once (you can see them all at once, in opposite to other official maps).

This is weird, even the game being "fast paced", this is *too much* (i.e. it is hard to keep alive, and you need a lot of adrenaline to keep going... dying and respawning in a very higher frequency).

But ac_douze with a lot of people is more AssaultCube like than any TwinTowers game.

TwinTowers perverts the engine (it is a small map with a long deep pit between the bases) and destroys the gameplay, since there is no other option except to camp and frag with the sniper.

The newbs enter in a 10x10 TwinTowers or 10x10 ac_douze and think it is better than any 5x5 ac_ctf_game. They simply do not understand the game... and many of these guys will play the game for once (or one week) before leave. So there is no way to control this with votes....

Tbh, the vote system is the biggest failure this game could have. People do not know how to vote, and democracy in the pubs is simply useless.

[Alien]

By these steps we will get back to the beginning :) 4 maps, mastermode system and only 2 servers with noobs :) In democracy you complain about freedom of your neighbors, in autocracy you complain about your own freedom, so you complain still.

[V-Man]

Not to mention newbs who don't participate in the vote might as well be hitting "no" since a vote of 6 yes v 1 no fails.

[Frogulis]

what about in a game of 7 players?

[Apollo{TyD}]

It's really too bad that the old forum is with a lot of discussions about douze before. Well, I try to share my memories and trowing some two cents into this.

1.
First off, this map wasn't made originally for AssaultCube. It's a modified Cube map (later there was also a port to Sauer). New textures, different lights and some mapmodels can't deny this fact. And that's probably the reason why several people (still) have the feeling that something is going wrong with this map and/or that it doesn't fit into the map collection we call "official maps".

2.
Also the argument that this map "doesn't hurt the engine" sounds funny in my ears - when you know the old discussions. Several years ago maps with too much open space which results in higher WQD values have been rejected from becoming official. To that time WQD was the major criterion. Since douze this criteria "is only one possible" criterion and the WQD limits have been increased.

3.
Also this map wasn't official since the beginning or better: they haven't been official all the time. This and a few other maps (also with less details/quality compared to the official ones, imo) have been added "for having some maps for ESL matches". After some protests these maps have been put into the folder "servermaps" instead of "offical" (1.0.3); since AC 1.1.x the maps are moved back to "officials" (probably without knowing the backgrounds).

4.
Also this map wasn't a CTF map nor a team map before (there wasn't any team spawns in 1.0.x with the result that one team has been placed regularly in the map's center to become a free kill for the other team). It might have been modified a lot since that, but it still doesn't feel like a real CTF map imo. Maybe it's the "ufo" which irritates me and that it doesn't look realistic (and I thought THAT is the true "spirit of the game", playing in a more realistic environment then in Cube).

5.
A player restriction by the map maker. Nice wish. And what happens if ten people are playing a map (ofc for ten people) and the next map is only for 4 people? Does the server kicks automatically 6 people? Or maybe the server ignores all maps in the map rotationn which aren't fitting the correct number of players. And it searches, and searches... (depends on the map rot). Well, probably someone must create a more radical solution then this patchwork between the settings of the server owner, the intention of the map maker and the basic orientation of the devs.

6.
"But ac_douze with a lot of people is more AssaultCube like than any TwinTowers game." Haha, I'm not really fan of TwinTowers. But in fact you can ruin EVERY game with ANY map and mode.

You can overplay it (that's what happened to ac_depot to me, also ac_desert is a good example or take ac_dust in the past), you can changed it suddenly (which happened to ac_depot too, the result was ac_depot_classic), you can make just bad looking "maps" (see above), you can play it with the wrong mode (ac_mines OSOK?? how crappy) and at least with too much players (ac_desert with >= 16 players? It's becoming full in the base, lol).

[V-Man]

Heh, ac_mines OSOK sounds kinda fun actually.

[Brahma]

Apollo... I must accept you are right in almost all points, and I respect your opinion in the few points I disagree.

Your item 6 corroborates the "tool" theory. If we use the tool in the wrong way, do not blame the tool, but the way. So, you can really destroy any map if you use the wrong mode/player number.

My question to you is: is there a player number to play ac_douze in team mode?

About your item 5... well... You do not know how the current map rotation works.
Check it out, and you will realize that a "map maker player number requirement" would just be evaluated along with the "map rotation player number requirement" for that map.

[kleinkariert]

Heh, ac_mines OSOK sounds kinda fun actually.

Well at least TOSOK is fun on ac_mines... If u spectate and watch a whole team with 7 players named "YesWeCamp" doing what their names stand for.

[V-Man]

HAHA! More slashy 2-point fun for me.

[Apollo{TyD}]

My question to you is: is there a player number to play ac_douze in team mode?

Good question, but better you ask the map maker - and that is makke.

About your item 5... well... You do not know how the current map rotation works.

Yep, I have no idea.

But if we think the idea to give the map maker more control over the way how his map is played to its end - then he should also have a say about the game modes. This settings should override any server rotation settings or votes.

[Brahma]

Good question, but better you ask the map maker - and that is makke.

When we put the team spawns, he said something like 1x1 or 2x2.

... then he should also have a say about the game modes. This settings should override any server rotation settings or votes.

The idea is to the map maker provide an equivalent syntax in the cfg (so, he must say about the mode... I thought it was clear from my second post in this thread, sorry).
Also, I would not say this settings should override, but "be considered as a major limit".

[Iguana]

Yes... this is my idea.
The map maker would put in the .cfg the forbidden modes or the player limits to some modes.

How would one do this?

because it's very annoying, even on a full custom server, where i see people playing ctf ac_douze i just leave or don't go to the server anymore.. Even in my server i see them playing douzes and it's annoying, because players are supposed to get good on decent or custom maps, but not noobish modes... every time i see ctf ac_douze being played in my server, I go there claim admin and change it to the next map in the rotation..

I think that if people wanna play douze in ctf, then it should be limied to at most 8 players 4 vs 4..

[ExodusS]

ac_douze is a map made for Cube.
(but when i see the power of shotgun and the assault-riffle i'm wondering how the game is becoming...)

Taking place in realistic environments, with fast, arcade gameplay, it's addictive and fun!
"Example: Abandoned mine shafts (not alien space ships!)"

What a "realistic environment"!

[Andrez]

Yeah, those floating strahlers blast my mind as well.

[Ronald_Reagan]

The issue has been addressed.

makkE has been asked by Halo, and Halo is now doing a re-make of Douze. That UFO is gone.

[Lantry]

That UFO is gone.

and with it goes the only argument against Douze.
I am glad they decided to get rid of the little tiny problem instead of getting rid of the whole map. Douze is not a bad map, rather, CTF is a bad mode for douze. I prefer douze to desert when playing small games of T/OSOK, and I always prefer it when playing LSS.

Don't hate the map, hate the servers who run it with bad settings.

[Ronald_Reagan]

Oh, I meant to close this with that statement.