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22 damage for AR at 20 bullets with slightly reduced sprint ability (but still have proper recoil, is this possible?) as well as reduced spread as larry had stated. Personally, I'd be happy with 22/20. However, if concessions need to be made, limiting the sprint potential and reducing spread could force players to play AR as a long range gun, as opposed to a "do-everything" gun. If 20 bullets are still OP, definitely reduce spread and leave the sprint potential where it is. If you reward players with better accuracy, the AR would become somewhat of a specialty gun.
As far as helmets are concerned, they are definitely useful. I think the problem in the SVN comes with the SMG being relatively weak against them, as well as AR (with reduced # of bullets) against it. atm, the killing time for smg/ar have been raised somewhat higher than what the gameplay physics support. If someone with 100/100 can just sprint past an SMGer (assuming they have decent aim) to score a flag and still have some stack, there is a problem. As harps said, they provide a nice touch and addition to map management, but to compensate, maybe think about having SMG be more effective against armor (although armor is meant to prevent small arms fire), increase the overall damage of SMG, or increase the rate of fire of SMG (although it's already too fast for me to properly count bullets at full-auto). 7 bullets at 100/100 seems reasonable for AR although it may still be too slow.
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26 Apr 12, 12:09PM
(This post was last modified: 26 Apr 12, 05:56PM by Nightmare.)
* Nightmare uses AR and thinks it needs 20 bullets/22 damage/rifle sprinting slightly stronger than SMG.
Edit: Hi Xenon.
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Nightmare is actually so stupid it saddens me. xoxo gossip goat.
But seriously, if that's your honest opinion, that makes me very sad.
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27 Apr 12, 08:55AM
(This post was last modified: 27 Apr 12, 09:06AM by CharlyMurphie.)
Asscheddarsayswut
Oh wait I know the answer
04:05:30: <B}Murph> Asscheddarsayswut
04:05:56: <Xenon> wut
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rofl, cute, shame your not helping the thread @ all and just derailing it ;)
this getting released soon? fairly keen for some new shit.
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I find this retardness sad too.
I think the balance is pretty good right now. There's always people who will cry, but will adapt or leave.
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(27 Apr 12, 02:02PM)pweaks Wrote: I find this retardness sad too.
I think the balance is pretty good right now. There's always people who will cry, but will adapt or leave.
This.
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27 Apr 12, 07:42PM
(This post was last modified: 27 Apr 12, 07:43PM by Nightmare.)
Use the Shotgun in CM's then, since it's so balanced. ;o
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(27 Apr 12, 07:42PM)Nightmare Wrote: Use the Shotgun in CM's then, since it's so balanced. ;o
the shotgun on arid is very usefull, even in CM.
rifle sprinting : AR 1 / 0 SMG
power : AR 1 / 0 SMG
so AR win 2/0 against SMG.
===> what do you think about 1/1 guys?
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(27 Apr 12, 09:17PM)Vanguard Wrote: (27 Apr 12, 07:42PM)Nightmare Wrote: Use the Shotgun in CM's then, since it's so balanced. ;o
the shotgun on arid is very usefull, even in CM.
rifle sprinting : AR 1 / 0 SMG
power : AR 1 / 0 SMG
so AR win 2/0 against SMG.
===> what do you think about 1/1 guys?
recoil: SMG 1/0 AR
time between shots: SMG 1/0 AR
reload: SMG 1/0 AR
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SMG is better on alot of things Vanguard... You shouldn't be able to kill someone cross map with an smg... Like you expect l0l
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due to kevlar, smg gets weak and AR just destroy the whole kevlar.
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28 Apr 12, 11:21AM
(This post was last modified: 28 Apr 12, 11:25AM by Vanguard.)
@ KingC :
(24 Apr 12, 11:05PM)Edward Wrote: 1 AR bullet = 24 dmg
100/0 = 5 bullets = 120dmg = 480 ms
100/25 = 5 bullets = 120dmg = 480 ms
100/50 = 6 bullets = 144dmg = 600ms
100/75 = 6 bullets = 144dmg = 600ms
100/100 = 7 bullets = 168dmg = 720ms
1 SMG bullet = 15 dmg
100/0 = 7 bullets = 105dmg = 480ms
100/25 = 8 bullets = 120dmg = 560ms
100/50 = 9 bullets = 135dmg = 640ms
100/75 = 10 bullets = 150dmg = 720ms
100/100 = 11 bullets = 165dmg = 800ms
even with a faster time between 2 shots, SMG is weaker.
times of reload? lol idk for you, but I PLAY WITH AR and i have never been killed because i took much times than a SMG to reload...
but you're right about the recoil
Xenon, in how many version of AC have you played? have you known old SMGs and the old ARs? you are just an AR player who want to keep his weapon stronger than others
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28 Apr 12, 12:52PM
(This post was last modified: 28 Apr 12, 01:34PM by kingCHUBBY.)
keep in mind that table only shows time to kill if u have 100% accuracy...
(if an AR and a SMG was to shoot someone with 100/100 and both of them missed 2+ bullets, then the SMG would kill faster)
anyways its not really possible for both guns to be equal. both guns have different strengths
w/e pointless argument
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Vanguard, I want the smg better, I used SMG all of 1.0 I used SMG start of 1.1, I still use SMG but not as much because AR is better...
Are you really that stupid? I plan on using smg next version, I wanted to use it this version etc.
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In SVN the AR's recoil is minor, and the SMG has crazy recoil. :3
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Nightmare, you smg fanboi. The recoil is only a tiny bit to high, I can control it easily so if I can, you can? o0
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28 Apr 12, 10:53PM
(This post was last modified: 28 Apr 12, 10:57PM by Boomhauer.)
once again i voice my opinion: there is nothing wrong with the balance in 1.1.04. nothing at all. leave it like it is and fix other things that are ACTUALLY broken....its impossible for me to get good at this game in the first place, much less so if everything keeps changing damnit!
EDIT* truthfully though, as long as headshots arent messed with any further, I am happy. :D
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28 Apr 12, 11:50PM
(This post was last modified: 28 Apr 12, 11:53PM by Edward.)
Armor make weapons very unbalanced. When armored, AR is too powerful and SMG is too weak. And kill a enemy 100/100 with the sniper is impossible without an headshot (against a good player using SMG or AR I mean).
Without armor it is nearly perfect (but do not remove it we can find a solution) :p
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(28 Apr 12, 11:50PM)Edward Wrote: Armor make weapons very unbalanced. When armored, AR is too powerful and SMG is too weak. And kill a enemy 100/100 with the sniper is impossible without an headshot (against a good player using SMG or AR I mean).
Without armor it is nearly perfect (but do not remove it we can find a solution) :p
AR and SMG are on par with each other in minimum kill times in SVN (since AR went down to 22 damage).
Sniper should be weaker at some things, it still stands a good chance against a 100/100 player at range. It irritates me the amount of claims that sniper is underpowered while carbine and shotgun are far far more and it's worked. Shotgun ridiculously weak, carbine still too weak to use in any map and sniper slightly stronger.
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(29 Apr 12, 12:59AM)Roflcopter Wrote: (28 Apr 12, 11:50PM)Edward Wrote: Armor make weapons very unbalanced. When armored, AR is too powerful and SMG is too weak. And kill a enemy 100/100 with the sniper is impossible without an headshot (against a good player using SMG or AR I mean).
Without armor it is nearly perfect (but do not remove it we can find a solution) :p
AR and SMG are on par with each other in minimum kill times in SVN (since AR went down to 22 damage).
Sniper should be weaker at some things, it still stands a good chance against a 100/100 player at range. It irritates me the amount of claims that sniper is underpowered while carbine and shotgun are far far more and it's worked. Shotgun ridiculously weak, carbine still too weak to use in any map and sniper slightly stronger. rofl for Dev Team.
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29 Apr 12, 01:40PM
(This post was last modified: 29 Apr 12, 01:42PM by Edward.)
I was not speaking about the crappy SVN (seems that AR is still 15 rounds and there is nothing I can say that I did not say yet).
About the sniper I just wanted to say that I like the combo sniper/pistol.
But I agree that the shotgun is not as OP as people said and I have no idea what is the carbine :p
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Let's go shotty let's go! Let's go shotty let's go!!
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01 May 12, 08:40AM
(This post was last modified: 01 May 12, 08:47AM by CharlyMurphie.)
(29 Apr 12, 12:59AM)Roflcopter Wrote: carbine still too weak to use in any map
IF we could balance LAG this weapon would be primary
EDIT:<(my edit) I don't see that any time soon unless all FPS's followed suit ;)
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(27 Apr 12, 09:17PM)Vanguard Wrote: (27 Apr 12, 07:42PM)Nightmare Wrote: Use the Shotgun in CM's then, since it's so balanced. ;o
the shotgun on arid is very usefull, even in CM.
rifle sprinting : AR 1 / 0 SMG
power : AR 1 / 0 SMG
so AR win 2/0 against SMG.
===> what do you think about 1/1 guys?
my proposed solution: decrease shot intervals on smg and similtaneously decrease AR's
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This has been discussed to death, but I suppose I haven't put in my opinion:
I don't mind if the Assault Rifle is nerfed, but have at least one component of the AR that is better.
The reason being, it will feel really bad when current AR players will use the new AR in the new version only to find it a lamer version of the weapon they favoured in the past. That's what I would feel, at least.
Yes, if we all decided that AR is too OP currently, then I agree it needs to get nerfed as whole. But add something better to the AR, even if it's just something small.
That way it's not like: "Oh, I used to have a 20 bullet AR, now I have to use 15." There would be no denial that the AR is now worse than before.
I think this would lead to current AR users today to quit AC.
However, if you add a small bonus to AR: "Oh look, they made AR 15 clips now, but at least it has ___."
Now the AR is worse than the current version, but is better in some aspects.
On the whole, my argument really has to do with the psychological side of things, not really about balance.
Bottom line, introducing an AR that simply has lower specs than the current one is a turn off for AR players.
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(02 May 12, 03:08AM)RCJD Wrote: ...
fine. same damage, moar recoil?
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03 May 12, 04:40AM
(This post was last modified: 03 May 12, 04:42AM by Terran.)
(02 May 12, 03:08AM)RCJD Wrote: But add something better to the AR, even if it's just something small.
Low power scope?
/end sarcasm
It would have to be something aesthetic. You shouldn't nerf and buff a weapon at the same time. If you modify the weapon stats to add something, the pro-nerf group will just start whining again.
My opinion: The project is SVN, you should all be testing the weapons out and come back with demos of played matches showing which guns need worked on if you're going to say something is still over-powered or needs to be nerfed. I've worked on gaming servers before. Sometimes what in source seems to be a very drastic modification, is actually quite minimal in game-play.
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