Upcoming Release Balance Discussion (SVN)

[ExodusS]

Remove helmets.

[VenteX]

I'll be honest, I don't care about balancing the sniper. People who say it's underpowered act like headshots don't exist.

I mean, you've got a weapon that can kill in 0ms and give you not one, but two frags for it. If you're not good at headshotting, you're not good at the sniper rifle. Tough; use another weapon (like the carbine)

@billyumreal: ac_shine. Don't forget ac_shine. But yes, I agree AC's maps need to suit more playing styles.

[jamz]

People ... act like headshots don't exist ....you've got a weapon that can kill in 0ms and give you not one, but two frags for it...

Even against 100 armour.

Spoiler

[Nightmare]

On the contrary, look at the aG 3v3 tournament.
Sacerock put up 39 headshots. The rest of the headshots by all other players combined for the tournament was...42.

His team tied for 9th place. :3

And the top teams used full autos mostly.

[Edward]

Remove helmets.

Do not !! Helmets are part of the game. If you delete them, you eliminate a part of what make the charm of Assaultcube. The game is as it is. Helmets are there and even if you do not like that, learn to deal with.
More over, controlling the helmet is a rather important tactical choice in cm/inter and remove that will decrease the diversity of the gameplay.

I'll be honest, I don't care about balancing the sniper. People who say it's underpowered act like headshots don't exist.

Try to kill a player with 100/100 without headshotting him with your sniper (cause you can't 100% headshot) and you will know. It is just ridiculous.

[Xenon]

I use assaultrifle, I do not want the helmets in the game because it makes assault rifle overpowered. Edward, do you not understand logic? Helmets make the Assaultrifle and only assaultrifle overpowered.

Coming from an assault rifle player.

[titiPT]

I use assaultrifle, I do not want the helmets in the game because it makes assault rifle overpowered. Edward, do you not understand logic? Helmets make the Assaultrifle and only assaultrifle overpowered.

Coming from an assault rifle player.

Removing the helmets is not a viable option. You don't just add a key feature to a game to delete it in a future release, it's nonsense. Instead, balancing the AR should be dealt with by changing its characteristics.

[Edward]

I do not care which weapon you are playing. Personally, I was a great fan of the AR and now I am playing SMG cause I am better with and I have more fun with.

This last weeks/months, I have improved a lot and I have made many CM against really strong AR and I am maybe the only one who do not care so much about the AR overpowered.

I am not stupid, I know the superiority of the AR :
(feel free to correct me if I am wrong)
1 AR bullet = 24 dmg
100/0 = 5 bullets = 120dmg = 480 ms
100/25 = 5 bullets = 120dmg = 480 ms
100/50 = 6 bullets = 144dmg = 600ms
100/75 = 6 bullets = 144dmg = 600ms
100/100 = 7 bullets = 168dmg = 720ms

1 SMG bullet = 15 dmg
100/0 = 7 bullets = 105dmg = 480ms
100/25 = 8 bullets = 120dmg = 560ms
100/50 = 9 bullets = 135dmg = 640ms
100/75 = 10 bullets = 150dmg = 720ms
100/100 = 11 bullets = 165dmg = 800ms

So yes, helmets make things more unbalanced. But the SMG's bullets are fastest and it allows you a lowest accuracy. Just decrease a little (not so much) the AR power.

[Cemer]

balancing the AR should be dealt with by changing its characteristics.

here comes the riflewalk.

[Xenon]

Ar needs 20 bullets

[billyumreal]

I think I understand now! The meaning of this forum!

This is the remove thread! When people dont come here to add, but to subtract!!!

I got a suggestion! Remove the walls! The walls dont let me walk straight! Then the AR kills me every time!!! Remove the AR too! And the snipers! Hate them, Remove all snipers... the scoped and the other one. The smg killed me once, can you remove it too? Affraid of nades? Dont be, it was removed last week!!! hahahahahaha

C'mon guys! The game have 8 Weapons, 6 pickups and 3 flags.

Yep... you're all right, lets minimize the game... I F1, remove the helmet now, then you can remove my Di============================================ck too! (Yes, it's that big...)

I hope that the cpistol is very very very impressive, because this small diminute discussion forum is shrinking a little the tiny game a minor bit... less. Soon we'll have 3 weapons, 2 píckups and no flags... they will be imaginary. :)))

[tempest]

Who needs constructive discussion anyway.

[Undead]

HI IM THE BEST PLAYER IN AC
DO THIS>>>>>>>>>>>
AR 20 BULLETS
.
.
.
WHY IS THE HELMET IN THE GAME? MOST NOBLE DEVELOPERS PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME IT MAKES THINGS BAD
.
.
WHEN YOU DO THIS WE SEE HOW WE GO
.
.
WHY IS PISTOL SO POWERFUL?

[VenteX]

billyumreal: let's not get too paranoid now. This thread hasn't fallen apart yet.

It's worth mentioning that it's rare for the devs to add weapons to AC. I know this can feel odd compared to other games, but it's something that has to settled with. The carbine was one of the first new weapons in... A while. And I'm not sure if they plan on adding the cpistol very soon. I don't mind new weapons as long as they don't feel like duplicates of other existing weapons (TBH the only thing that makes me interested in the combat pistol is that it would be the first and only weapon with burst-fire capability)

[Lantry]

you can remove my Di============================================ck too! (Yes, it's that big...)

better hope your partners use a large font.

[jamz]

In the current SVN, AR is 22 damage with 15 rounds. If testing shows that AR has been weakened from 1104 by too much, which of the following would be preferred?
Damage back to 24, 15 rounds?
Damage 22, back to 20 rounds?

Undead, "IT MAKES THINGS BAD" is not a good enough reason to take them out. Can you be more specific? Xenon has explained that they overpower the AR at the expense of the SMG (and presumably other weapons), but how is it that full armour doesn't? Surely this all depends on the available armour pickups on the map and the number of players playing. Is this a problem I would only notice if I played competitive games? Since the AR has been slightly nerfed, is it still a problem?

[Harps]

helmets were added so that players could have command of more resources to win fights. adding helmets also improves how maps play out, as now players don't all congregate in specific areas to gain control of armour, but instead spread out their play. a common example of this is in ac_complex, where helmets are added so that players can use the hallway routes rather than staying in the middle area and using the three health packs and armour to continually replenish stack.

unfortunately it seems some players can't grasp these very basic concepts.

@jamz,

Damage 22, back to 20 rounds?

this is the option i prefer, as it keeps AR in it's defined role as a weapon that you can both kill and AR sprint with.

now back to my crazy/not so crazy ideas
also, what is wrong with approaching the problem of weapon balance by strengthening the utility of the smg? how about decreasing damage per bullet and removing recoil, whilst still keeping the same dps output as the AR.

[X-Ray_Dog]

Damage 22, back to 20 rounds.

This is the option I prefer as it keeps the AR in its defined role as a weapon that you can both kill and AR sprint with.

[Nightmare]

This is why Bukz and Lucas should do weapon balance. :3
jamz, use your lead powers to make it happen. <333

[Roflcopter]

To all those saying 25 shields biases things, it doesn't. You get the same bias in favour of AR with 100 shield for instance. This issue is fixed by making AR damage 22.

In the current SVN, AR is 22 damage with 15 rounds. If testing shows that AR has been weakened from 1104 by too much, which of the following would be preferred?
Damage back to 24, 15 rounds?
Damage 22, back to 20 rounds?

How about adding the option of 15 rounds, 22 damage and reduced spread? That would make the changes list from 1104 -> SVN: 2 less damage, harder recoil, 5 less rounds per clip and lower spread. Players would have to aim carefully to use it effectively because of the reduced rounds but the lower spread would still allow truly good players to use it effectively.

The 22 damage already brings the kill times level with SMG. 15 rounds is not enough at long range with current spread.

[Undead]

i dont understand helmets are so pointless the only time ive ever gone out of my way to take them in a clan match is when there is a sniper on the other team lol

[Elite]

Helmets made the smg worse, its just increasing the time to kill one with smg, for the AR a helmet is no barrier.

Two possibilities, increase the damage of the smg a bit, or delete them.

Personally i would like to see them still, it gives some players a small chance for double fragging or a chance to frag someone when already damaged by the enemy.

[billyumreal]

I think I got a helpful tip:

If you want to reduce AR dmg, to better balance with SMG, Increase SMG RPS (rounds per second)

SMG needs 7~11 shots to kill its targets:
It delivers 14 rps (70ms, right?). Increase it to 15 rps with 65ms.

Quoting Ed:
1 AR bullet = 24 dmg
100/0 = 5 bullets = 120dmg = 480 ms
100/100 = 7 bullets = 168dmg = 720ms

1 SMG bullet = 15 dmg
100/0 = 7 bullets = 105dmg = 455ms
100/100 = 11 bullets = 165dmg = 715ms

It will be more powerful, still wont escape reality. But lets agree this: The AR keeps with 20 rounds ;)

Little EDIT: Think SMG is too powerful now? Try to save bullets! :D

[Edward]

Ar needs 20 bullets

Yes !

AR has been weakened from 1104 by too much

SMG is able to make 450dmg now and is able to make 465dmg in the SVN
AR is able to make 480dmg now and is able to make 330dmg in the svn
SMG = +15
AR = -150
Obviously !

which of the following would be preferred?
Damage back to 24, 15 rounds?
Damage 22, back to 20 rounds?

Damage 22, back to 20 rounds!!!!!!

The first time I played AC, I wondered why I was not able to headshot with my pistol... Then I understood. I was playing assaultcube and not counter strike or any other fps ...
Delete a problem is fine, resolve it is better! Save the helmets ...

[Roflcopter]

Can we have infinite pistol ammo and get rid of the pistol pickups? They truly are useless.

[Xenon]

22 Damage, 20 rounds. No offense but AR cannot have 15 rounds regardless of damage.

[Jg99]

Can we have infinite pistol ammo and get rid of the pistol pickups? They truly are useless.

i agree, pistols in most games are unlimited ammo :D

[Edward]

And what about the akimbo? Akimbo is the best AC's weapon (comon so fast and so accurate)!! We have to limit its amo. So we need pistols pickups.

And what about PF? You wanna remove it too? Cause with unlimited amo, PF is just an useless mode. After removing kevlar, pistols pickups and PF maybe we could remove shotgun, tosok, ac_douze and everything people dislike or do not understand...

Naaaa!! More over I always have bullets in my pistol so most of the time I do not even care about it...

Lets focus on more important things

[VenteX]

I know you're joking, Edward, but the idea of needing to balance akimbo because people may find it "OP" is just hilarious to me. Akimbo is supposed to be AC's quad-damage. ATM (don't know about SVN), akimbo is doing a horrible job at it.

[Roflcopter]

And what about the akimbo? Akimbo is the best AC's weapon (comon so fast and so accurate)!! We have to limit its amo. So we need pistols pickups.

Give the akimbo a lot of ammo and when it runs out let it expire and return to normal pistol.

And what about PF? You wanna remove it too? Cause with unlimited amo, PF is just an useless mode. After removing kevlar, pistols pickups and PF maybe we could remove shotgun, tosok, ac_douze and everything people dislike or do not understand...

No one likes pistol friendly. Just remove it. For the one of two players that will chip in claiming they like it, games can't support everything that a few players like or we'd have literally hundreds of modes. Feature bloat is not attractive even in games.

Naaaa!! More over I always have bullets in my pistol so most of the time I do not even care about it...

That seems an argument for its redundancy.