10 Sep 11, 04:04PM
(10 Sep 11, 08:10AM)Aekom Wrote: What ever happened to the 'right to be considered innocent until proven guilty'? If there is no clear evidence that they've used cheats in a public match, why do we assume that they will?...there's a chance that they were only experimenting...There's a pretty simple 'proof' that defeats this argument, although it's not conclusive because you can probably disable the cheats completely.
1. Plays for months using 1.1.0.4 (The client version is shown in server logs).
2. Plays with blatant cheat - client has changed to 1.1.0.3
3. Now plays in pubs with 1.1.0.3
If the cheat client was only for 'experimenting', why keep using it, even without the cheats enabled? Forgetfulness? Davitomon tried that excuse, until it was pointed out to him that the client he was using presented a menu of the available cheats when it was started.
(10 Sep 11, 12:30PM)tempest Wrote: ...You should really show those demos - if there's even the slightest indication of them cheating on public servers, I guess everyone will be with you.Well, that's the big problem. We're talking about the kind of adjustments that simply cannot or will not be seen by most players. Does anyone remember Cipe from June? Lots of people were coming to me, with and without demos, asking if he cheated. I watched about half a dozen in a few days, and I could not be certain of any aimbotting. He later admitted his cheats to me. The 'obviousness' of his cheats was only being 'felt' by experienced and highly skilled players, rather than being seen.
I'm now in the same situation Brahma was in when he was statistically analysing demos. He knew they cheated, but he couldn't prove it to the wider community, so he gave up in the face of a backlash when high-profile individuals were labelled. I'm not going to reveal names when there's the possibility that I'll be ignored, or worse, by many players. If the argument that it's OK to try cheats in private wins, then these players have done nothing wrong and deserve to keep their anonimity.
At the moment, I'm going with "Do nothing". This thread actually got the result I intended; one of them contacted me. He explained that he'd never used the cheats against anyone but his friend (for what that's worth) and that he would be removing the client. He wasn't the worst offender, and I'll keep watching him and the other two, but I'm hoping they'll go clean. The opinions are leaning towards "Ban them", but it's clearly not a black and white issue.