assault cube needs updates

[DamDam]

Finally, I can't help but think that the regular pub player has become the real minority. Ah,... no. It's called elitist group in that case.
Yeah, you guys really got your principles straight.

Official maps were chosen by an elitist group, not by the players who regularly play the game, that's just facts lol

He is here to be cheered at by little kids, who think, he is cool, "fighting the man".

Have you considered the fact that we can agree with someone who disagrees with you simply because we share the same opinion as he does, or because his points makes more sense than yours. It doesn't have to be a fan or dick-sucking contest...

I don't even get where you're heading. On the one hand you argue for the competive game beeing the real game

There is no real game, that's what your missing. The players who make the game alive, are those who make the game what it is. Whether it's by submitting new maps, ideas, modes or any other goofy stuffs. By trying to correct AC back the "the real game it's supposed to be" you're only frustrating more and more people which results in a massive diminution of the playerbase.



Now that's not something I enjoy doing because I don't particularly have good feelings towards Undead for variousreasons. However, after reading all of the posts from this thread, I can't help but quote all the things I whole-heartedly agree with.

lets be real: if i joined the development team, and you left, AC would be better off.
is that why you're so afraid to include me?

Yes, it is true. His ideas and analysis of the problem is correct and corresponds to the problem players have been pointing out for almost 2 years now. The development team is actively trying to make things change, but they're not putting efforts into the right things. (which is a waste of their time too)

i don't have the coding knowledge to implement what needs to be implemented.

And it's the same for many of us who still care enough about the game to post on those threads. The fact that you're capable of coding and part of the development team does not make your opinion, analysis or ideas better than those who are part of the community only.

which is where i come in. the developers have never made the correct decisions, and there is little point in having talented coders if they're wasting their time.
however, if you simply prove what has always happened in the past, on many, many repeated occasions, and simply ignore the reality of the situation, then AC will just continue on its path.

Exactly.

Bah. It's easier to talk on the forums.

It's not easy to prove your point about improving/saving the game to a group of people who are reluctant to ideas that differ from theirs.

for real, everyone on this forum knows that its an ego thing. you don't want to let undead in the door because its undead. otherwise, at the very least, i would have a position for mapping by now, rather than RK.

Although said in a pretty arrogant way, and despite the fact that he probably behaved wrong in the past, the fact that it is in fact Undead pointing out those things, would make you 20x more butthurt to admit he's right.

right, but bugs are hardly the reason for the decline in AC's popularity. just because people are complaining doesn't mean its that large of an issue. the hax jump is hardly an issue really, it has only really affected competitive play. i will be completely honest; the developers have been incredibly good at dealing with bugs/cheaters considering their lack of resources. which should tell you that bugs aren't the issue here.
now, terrible decisions and indecisiveness, those are the real reasons for AC going to shit.

Again, and again, this is so true.

here is why it wont work:
firstly, very few competitive players actually enjoy 1.2's gameplay. its terrible, and i can go into extreme detail as to why its terrible, but it will go over your head.
secondly, the hi-skill ladder was good, but mis-managed. if you and drakas manage a new hi-skill ladder, it will go the same way as the former, as well as the TyD and BoB ones. there is nothing special about that ladder in comparison to the others, as it relied on the intense popularity of AC at the time for its success (you don't recall how pubs were 10x as full as they are today?). it is a useful tool for retaining players, but a far more useful tool would be a central ladder implemented into AC.
thirdly, intense, almost irreparable damage has been inflicted on AC's player base through mismanagement. you have to think about how you can either a) bring those players back and/or b) develop a new solid player base. your project will only have a minimal effect, as AC itself will still be the same horrible game.
enfin, you don't even understand how that damage has been done. i can explain it to you in terms that i think you will understand:
1) weapon balance shifts between 1.0>1.1(especially this shift) and 1.1>1.2 disillusioned large proportions of the player base. it is absolutely vital that you achieve the correct balance before you embark on projects such as this. this is of a very high priority.
2) the implementation of map restrictions caused large numbers of people to quit AC. map restrictions do not work, i don't even have to go into detail about this because almost the entire community agrees with me, aside from the devs ofc.
this also leads to my next point: the developers are obsessed with creating 'model players', who don't complain and play their 8vs8 ac_shine ctf as their told. stop this attitude today please. in the past it was rationalized as 'well, we don't need those players because they don't "get" AC'. well, look now, now nobody wants to play AC, because the current fucking developers don't get AC either and have created their own abomination.
3) a lack of direction in the project has meant that AC hasn't used its 2008-2009 momentum to surge in popularity, but rather, has moved in the opposite direction. especially around ESL times, there was the potential for AC to develop into a much more popular game, but the team lacked the initiative to take AC in that direction, mainly because they didn't understand exactly why AC was popular.
i can tell you exactly why it was: AC was fun. you could do as you wanted, and if you wanted to play the game in a certain way, you could. you could play gemas/stupid fucking ezjemvil if you pleased, play on ladders, play clan matches, etc. etc. the point is, there was a
instead of using this appeal to pool together resources and move AC in an even better, more enjoyable direction, it has instead receded due to incompetent and neglectful leadership. would you like to repeat the same mistakes of the past, and head down the path of brahma, or would you instead prefer to chance fixing the mistakes of the past and make AC work?

Here. Most of his ideas and contribution, in one post. Read it carefully, and you'll recognize most of the things, we, the players, mentioned times and times again as of why the game was dying/ would die.
Although it is not a contribution on GitHub, you should definitely consider those points to recenter the work and projects that AC needs to kickback.
Or else you could being stubborn, ignore it, and continue implementing things that will not solve AC's biggest problem and the most worrying for a game : the lack of players

About the arrogant and egocentric personality of Undead

I agree with you on some points, ofc, Undead is not perfect, nobody praises him that way. But he does point out some good points. The way he behaves or come off has very little to due with the fact that he's write about why the game is dying.
He may be an egocentric prick, but he has been constantly been showing and explaining why the game was failing, when many other players gave up and quit the game (that includes me, since I barely post anymore)
 

@devs
its 2015. AC is down the shitter, instead of going in the opposite direction. year by year, it has become worse and worse, with no signs of improvement. i know exactly what the problems are, and what needs to be done to rectify them. if you want to fix AC, swallow your pride, and try listening for once. if you don't want to do that, then obviously i can't be involved in your project, and AC will continue on its current trajectory until its completely devoid of life.

harsh but true...

I think this whole "we're serving you and get abused we're the victims lalala" is stupid too.
There probably isn't any real reward for being a developer unless your ego is so fragile that you enjoy getting compliments from completely random people you'll never meet via an internet forum, and there certainly isn't money in it unless you're stealing from the AC donations or something lol. We're not expecting you to bend over backwards and code all the shit every last person wants, neither are we expecting you to invest a substantial amount of your personal time into the game - what is expected is simply basic respect between the players and developers, and by banning those you don't wish to hear from because they criticise your work, you're breaching that unspoken respect which should be omnipresent.
I'm gonna stick my bollocks out on the line here and say it: no matter how much you know about coding, please don't pretend that you understand the game more than those who have played it regularly for years simply because you personally dislike these people because they've aired their concerns when something is wrong. If you really care about AC, putting these stupid squabbles aside and finding a solution that pleases the playerbase and the developers alike is pivotal - without either group the game would be absolutely nothing, and if either group tries to suggest the opposite they're blinded by their grossly overinflated sense of self-worth.
If the players and the devs can't collaborate in a civil manner (yes this thread isn't how it's supposed to be done) that also works (don't tell someone who can't code to submit code) then it will just continue dying. I've only been in this game since mid-1.1, and I can notice an extreme difference between the active playerbase then and the active playerbase now. It's just not something you can shut your eyes to and pretend it'll go away, it's something that needs to be fixed.

This post really should be refered to, it regroups both opinion in a (somewhat) peaceful way, gg Vanq.

If you think Undeads post are a contribution, you're completely wrong.

How ? Care to explain?

The "devs refuse help" excuse is brought here quite often and its still completely wrong. Accept that you are not competent to help, not just because you don't have the ability to code, but also because you pretend what you are posting here are suggestions while obviously they are not.

And who is judging who is competent enough or not atm ? Developpers
So basically, developers are not asking for help but they're open to any kind of help coming from someone who they judge is competent enough for them to consider what he has to say.
Now in your system, there is something that can appear to be a loop or a closed circle in which, no one can enter unless he's accepted by the elitist devs (which is why Undead's ideas are completely overlooked)
If you took most "repeatedly mentioned"suggestions in account, you would maybe have a better picture of what the game needs and what projects needs to be prioritized. Clearly I don't think the priority is a ladder or a hax-jump fix. It is not the reason why AC is dead right now...
And if you still wonder what are the reasons, it's been mentionned about 5 times in this thread alone (mainly by Undead btw)

If you think its about the ego, it means you do'nt want to see the truth. I don't care if people are not thanksful; I care if they spit at me and my work, like UNdead, larry and their friends. Its a shame to do that, and its what theydo all the time. But you find it normal. You think, since i work on some projects, i have to make sure you are happy with everything, immediately. YOu think i have to accept that some people attack all this work. Good, excellent. Thats how you encourage people to spend even more time on these things, for sure.

I can understand that it's hard to accept criticism for something you've put work into, and especially when it comes from people who frankly do not match your skills in coding or programming. But hey, that's what forums are like, everyone brings a bit of what they know and think. Not every opinion is the best, but every one of them should be considered, especially since the game is in a "crisis" mode at the moment. I don't think the development team necessarly lacks great coders because I'm sure you are all very competent in that matter. But coding stuff that isn't essential to AC's rebirth is pointless.

What (i think), the game needs is a clear list of the state of the game, the reasons why, the solutions we could bring, and the actual means what we (all together) need to accomplish to make this project work.

Though I'm afraid this war between the dev and the community is going to be hard (if not impossible to stop) because it has gone too far. Without pointing fingers, I do think that a development team should be able to keep a good communication with the game's community, even through some trolls. But how can a good communication happens when everytime there's an argument, it is solved with warning points and bans ? That's literally what dictatorship sounds like, and it's the best way to make a community be either afraid or hostile to the ones that "hold" the power and could be considered a power abuse too.

Not sure how my post can solve things, but I thought it might bring some light as off what to do in this sticky situation...