AC 1.1 OR AC 1.0.4

[Orynge]

- I think that the only imbalance in 1.0.4 is when you turn around a corner and a n00b smacks you with his shotgun and drains all your 100 HP/100 Armour with a single shot. Also, maybe, sniper+pistol is a bit too powerful, but if your SMG is good, you should get a kill even against a pro. Some changes regarding this issues could have been proposed without changing the game play at all (now shotgun has gib ability? O.o )

If you think there was a pretty good balance, why didn't you mention the Assault Rifle?

Also, Shotgun gibs are still worth 1 point.
:)

[V-Man]

Allow me to remind everyone of one of the main influences of change between 1.0.4 and 1.1:
AC 1.1 ideas thread
i.e., it was everyone who had a thoughtful idea to contribute.

[DrauL]

Because life isnt really like a box of chocolates.

[Drakas]

Well, just today I played a few fun matches with some very skilled players and managed to play in a decent level using ALL weapons (anyone ever played a match with AR in 1.04, anyone?). Just that change alone, to me, makes 1.1 very much welcome, plus the no cheaters situation, sorry but its a no-brainer!
As for armor: ffs, they are there for the taker. First come, first served, so move you lazy whining arse and go pick some armor, caus guess what? Its gonna be harder for your opponent to kill ya too!

Yes, in case you didn't know about 1.0's competition. :)

[Luc@s]

Many features in 1.1 are really good ideas (anticheat, no ratio, etc.) but :

The point is that some gameplays changes were not thought enough I think.
For example, the armor. Before it was something to take in consideration in the strategy. Keep control of the kevlar was one of the things you had to do. Now, it's more "let's walk and take pick up we meet on our way".

This version makes AC too complicate too. Why I always need a different number of bullets ? Why the "server denied my call ?" Why can't I vote, send this map ? Etc.

[Elite]

advantages for me in 1.1. :
anti-cheat system
AR got balanced
no nade spamming
new weapon is ok
no weird maps
shotgun + lag was like a cheat in 1.0.4, well i dont know how its feels in 1.1., i hope not the same, bzc sg got better!
jpeg or bmp format for screenshots

disadvantage in 1.1 and so advantage for 1.0.4:
smg got less powerfull, i prefer old smg otherwise AR is too strong
old nade system for 1x1 (more tactical with little hp)
armor system ( its too much armor around), armor controls now the end of a 1x1 in most cases! Skills with weapons cant balance it alone.
i prefer old scoresystem
bad sniper-scope reaction (with /autoscopesens 1 a bit better but not perfect)
i hate auto kick bzc of inactivity
i dont see any advantage in new vote system with "reason", some idiots always press F1 without looking or vote sometimes never! More trustfull Admins needed or something like the "Master" in 0.93 but only with special function (kick and ban) and password protected.

I am sure the few other bugs will be fixed in the next releases, maybe the demo format can be changed thats its replayable with VLC for e.g. or an extracted demo viewer with "scroll button" like on every other video player.
I also would recommend an central masterserver blacklist and for special cases (like it was on oNe|Wolf or w00p|Life), server owners should do an voting or block him/her only on special servers.
Next point is a demo analyzer like oNe mosschops has for cheat detection, with some good developing there shouldnt be anymore troubles and cheaters can be caught with any doubts.
I also would prefer an accuracy script for individual players. I know there is already one exisiting but not well yet.

I prefer for personal reasons 1.0.4. An upgrade of fixing bugs, some changing in weapon balance, well known-problems, i rather like than a new version.
I personally prefer 1.0.4!

[Kirin]

""bad sniper-scope reaction (with /autoscopesens 1 a bit better but not perfect)""

i dont get what u mean here elite, anyway in the SVN autoscopesens got fixed, cause it's calculations werent always accurate..

now to move the character aim ingame on the monitor by tow centimeters (for example) if u use autoscopesens it takes the same mouse space as if you werent zooming (you wont feel extra speed or slowness in scope anymore, just pure consistency and accuracy), so you always have a constant sensitivity feeling :) i personally recomment that command for every kind of sniper user, noob or pro. (this way u only have one sensitivity, and not two like when using scopesensscale 0.5)

[ElCrema]

Yes, in case you didn't know about 1.0's competition. :)

What's the matter mate? Worried that an armored noob is gonna be able to kill ya with AR , now?

I really can't believe that you ppl actually think that 1.0 has balanced weapons and perfect gameplay. There is some balance? Yeah, between SMG and Sniper. Shotty is restricted to pubs and AR is only used by those players that still didn't figure it out that pressing B brings out the weapons menu. And the game play, well... its nice when you are able to spawn without being blow out by a nade spammer and are actually allowed to "play" the game for a bit. I don't need to mention the cheaters, do I?

For those who learn to master smg and sniper in 1.0 its a bit frustrating that now they actually gonna need to be careful and acknowledge the existence of those dudes running around with AR and shotty with 100 armor. Since you guys seem like "competition" so much, guess what? The competition level just increased.
Now before pressing B and choosing between smg or sniper for any match, you gonna need to take a look at what map is on. Players will be forced to learn how to use all weapons in a decent level in order to succeed. Imho, this will bring AC's skill levels up (I remember not long ago some guys complaining of how low it is nowadays ;)
Can't imagine why the "prominent players" wouldn't see this as a good thing.

And worry not Drakas. I'm absolutely sure that Hi-skill and tournaments will be a huge success in 1.1 too ;)

[Drakas]

Yes, in case you didn't know about 1.0's competition. :)

What's the matter mate? Worried that an armored noob is gonna be able to kill ya with AR , now?

They were doing that already :)
I love getting beaten by ARs and Shotguns :D...

There is some balance? Yeah, between SMG and Sniper. Shotty is restricted to pubs

Again, my previous post stands. I've played with shotgun-only against BC in the TyD Tourney, and twice against A&D in the ESL, and also with AR. Guess you didn't know! :)

"restricted" (@), of course... You seem to know a lot about restrictions. The only restriction that really exists is in the view of the players themselves that these weapons are for noobs. And now, they certainly are :)

And the game play, well... its nice when you are able to spawn without being blow out by a nade spammer

Well, that's debatable, depends on who you play, and the level of your teammates? ;) And are you talking about public games or private games? Did you know that you can time when your enemy will throw a nade and when it will expode, so you wouldn't die right as you spawn? Ie. you could wait one more second, not get blown out straight away, and actually fight?

Your claims of here are based on very insufficient analysis and tactics here, mate!

I don't need to mention the cheaters, do I?

Yes, cheaters, you certainly love them to use them in every argument :) What do they have to do with game balance anyway? xD

actually gonna need to be careful and acknowledge the existence of those dudes running around with AR and shotty with 100 armor.

Actually, I'm one of those dudes... in 1.0, and 1.1 (I really love the new AR for myself to use because it is the most powerful weapon) ;)

Since you guys seem like "competition" so much, guess what? The competition level just increased.

Back it up?

Now before pressing B and choosing between smg or sniper for any match, you gonna need to take a look at what map is on.

Dunno, I've been doing that for a while myself.

Players will be forced to learn how to use all weapons in a decent level in order to succeed.

Maybe that's a secret that nobody but a very few realised in 1.0? The very few people that are capable of using all weapons in 1.0 are the most successful.


@ restricted, I would also like to mention how many people thought TKTF and HTF were noob modes until I started asking people to play, or in the more recent case, using these modes in competition. People tend to stick with what they know, improve it more and more but not go beyond into the other level of being universal. The same thing will happen, if it's not sent to the realm of real competition and thinking and elaborating on new tactics. It's always CTF @ ac_depot that I'm being invited to play by so many people and as soon as they get on HTF @ ac_elevation, they start whining.

I remember playing against BC in the AC 1.0 release cup. They chose TKTF as their map after we won ours. I finally understood what was going on (I've never even heard of TKTF before playing this match) with 5 minutes left, whereas my teammates still didn't get it when we won by 1 flag, even though my teammates were just fragging around and making those kills.

Now, I haven't yet won a single 2vs2 game against any team in TKTF @ ac_gothic in the past week after playing at least 6 games. People train, people become universal, at their own will. Now I am happy, to always pick that map and see if my teammate can do the job, if my enemies are stronger than me, if I can figure out a tactic to beat them, and if I'll lose or not. Whether I lose or not, I'm happy, because these players are becoming universal as am I.

Lowering the upper skill level is not the solution to anyone's incapacity to time actions of other players, and what is going on in the game, or anyone's incapacity to try new things and new ways.

---

I got an idea, maybe people should be forced to spawn straight away after those 5 seconds, so they couldn't smart-out their enemies? After all, forcing is the only way? ;-)


... there's a lot more depth than you think, so stop with jumping to conclusions :)

[ElCrema]

You realize I'm not talking about you, Drakas, every time I used "you" in my post right? I and everyone else knows you are a good player, Drakas, no need to comment every sentence in my quote to tell us that. But the fact that you played a few matches using shotty and pull out the AR once or twice for matches are not enough proof that the weapons are well balanced in 1.0, caus they are not! Just a hand full of players master all weapons, and you will not see them with shotty and AR that much.

They way you put it, AC should aim for high level players and tournaments, while 70% of everyone in the masterserver now just came by to enjoy a pub action here and there. The question is, who should be pleased? Prominent players or the general population? Caus any change aimed to make pub games better will affect competitive matches and vice versa.

I do think the new armor values and new weapon balance leveled the field quite a bit, and hopefully will give newbies a better chance against seasoned players and to me this is not a bad thing.
Maybe if a new player comes by and start to play in pubs without being mowed down by a smg or getting killed by a sniper/pistol hit every 10 seconds it will be encourage him to stick around, get involved with the community, join or maybe form a clan so them he can start to play in a competitive level. Not sure if 1.1 will deliver this, but I sure hope so!

Just one thing: Cheaters do affect game play in pubs, caus they are a major annoyance. And I don't have to say that they affect the result of tournaments. Forgot who won the 1v1 DM in ESL, already?

[MorganKell]

Tweaked that stupid friggin sniper so it's not a lightning bolt of the gods, added a new weap, and ... other than that I can't complain. I love the no recoil SMGs!! I'm sorry boyz no matter how much I do love 1.0.4 over 1.1, which I've yet to play seriously, I will whore myself out to 1.1 because it has a no recoil SMG :D.

.93 FTW!!

[Syntax]

Someone posted this on IRC the other day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY

[#M|A#Wolf]

:DDDD

[Alien]

Maybe if a new player comes by and start to play in pubs without being mowed down by a smg or getting killed by a sniper/pistol hit every 10 seconds it will be encourage him to stick around, get involved with the community, join or maybe form a clan so them he can start to play in a competitive level. Not sure if 1.1 will deliver this, but I sure hope so!

i would rather classify servers to [LADDER|TRAINING|CUSTOM] than to change gameplay of AC. For them it has no effect, they will be still dead in 10 seconds, even if you code for them tank full of grenades. :)

The best strategy in 1.0 against good sniper is to control armor, everyone with smg knew that the sniper has no chance against him, how can sniper in 1.1 feel if armors are in each corner in map.:P And don't forget that pro with smg|ar|sg move, have timing, use some tactic so yes, for snipers are other weapons for noobs. :D i will never switch :P

[Brahma]

Allow me to remind everyone of one of the main influences of change between 1.0.4 and 1.1:
AC 1.1 ideas thread
i.e., it was everyone who had a thoughtful idea to contribute.

V-Man for the dev's team!

[Versace]

Nice thread, can we keep both 1.1 and 1.0.4?
I prefer to play 1.0.4 because I can't get 1.1 on my mac it wont load at the start so I plan to just continue playing 1.0.4 :)

[MorganKell]

The answer to this problem is .93. It's as simple as that. Ah yes the obvious haters will RAGE me, but they know deep down that AC is at it's best in .93... Drakas I challenge you to 1v1 .93!! BRING IT SISSIE MAN

[V-Man]

MorganKell, do you still have the 0.93 installation executable?
* V-Man wonders if any servers still run 0.93...

[Vizard]

Hi everybody,

first of all respect to the developers and thank you for the new release. To make it short - I'm happy with the new way you took. I see alot of potential with > 1.1.

I stopped playing AssaultCube a month ago waiting for 1.1 to be realeased. Main reasons for this decision were the inbalance of weapons and the mass of wanna-be so called "hackers" or cheaters. The community started breaking because there was no trust anymore - everybody started suspecting each other of hacking. Hearing of some that I would cheat, made me leave AC for a while. Because my nature is being fair to everybody, I can't stand of being accused of "hacking", while playing fair all my life long.

Anyway, the new release promises to solve or improve some of the main issues. (I also hoped seeing changes in granade physics and collution detection of projectiles, which aren't - but maybe in the next release (?), as they are gameplay killers.)

With new changes, there are alot of new problems. This is common in the coding-world. Nobody can expect a product to be perfect with the 1st release.

But we (especially the very expirienced gamers) can make suggestions about problems we are afaced, with all the gamers from newbies to pro's in mind.

Maybe we can start a thread for "urgend issues in new releases". For example one thing that I noticed at once, was the weapon balance which is still in Beta-Stage in some places. For example the shutgun is too strong in many situations, with the lag of proper collusion detection this weapon will be THE primary weapon for many newbies, who will start camping in corners waiting.

This and some other aspects worth a discussion, as I suggested - maybe a new thread will gather all of our suggestions in future. Tell me what you think.

Best regards - Vizard

[Bullpup]

to the op.

Don't need a masterserver to play assaultcube. post the ip of the server with a version number. Hell, morgan still plays 0.93*EDIT, although by himself.

AssaultCube is like a box of Chocolate, there are some bad nuts in the bunch but we keep eating it up.

[Alien]

I don't think that shotgun is overpowered, you can find with each weapon strategy how eliminate its power. That camping noob must go out and take the flag for example, so it is your chance how to get him. I think bigger problem of new version is AR. I cannot get over 0.5 ratio in serious match with AR users. They use crouch strafe AR run, so they are helly quick. They dont care about distance from enemy, they don't need to aim to much and bullets are incredible strong. If they have armor you need more than 2 hits, but hitting shooting AR users isn't easy because his shooting cause that he moves. Next his bullets causes also a bit lag and chaos in my screen. ;) And don't take bad impression from public games where are noobs who don't move. Or i am noob, i should take as one possibility. :P

[makkE]

I (and some prominent players) do not recall ever being asked whether any of the changes that were proposed and finalised are at all a good idea, or at least how significant they should be. Especially the armours, the changes in weapons, and anything major that has not been really changed so drastically, say, from .93 to 1.0, as an example.

What?

So what you think the 3 weeks of alpha testing was for?

It's funny that these things come up after we had a proper alpha release this time. Also, we had a long thread in the old forums when we re-balanced the weapons and did other major changes, we had every info openly available, unlike the 1.0 release desaster.. That thread was up there for WEEKS and everyone took part, I never saw you there...
This time we tried to have everyone participate and give their opinions BEFORE the release.
Everyone was free to voice their opinions, we explicitely asked for input multiple times.

In addition to this I spoke with so called "prominent players" about the major changes in that time, and almost all were for those changes. I also tried to contact you, Drakas, but you were only on one time when I could catch you in #woop, and you never replied...

[Breeze]

I like 1.1 a whole lot better, if only for less nade spam.
Also love the Carbine. It is excellent for open maps, a tad bit too powerful if you ask me. Its like a long range shotgun.

[Drakas]

1) I did give a lot of advice. Yeah, the old private forums were pretty much filled with me giving advice (how to balance weapons, nades, various methods to get rid of abusers, what was suitable and whatnot; and all of it was also provided with lengthy explanations), so... I guess that's a waste of time?

2) ... and I never recall receiving any messages, nor anyone saying anyone was looking for me

3) Oh, and I love how devs decided to provide 3 octets of whois anyway after such a long discussion with flow and Brahma, where flow agreed to show 2 :). I spent two hours discussing and providing a valid case and it gets ignored (and this was before the alpha release). Is there any reason to do the same any more? I recall many "prominent people" being there and hearing what I had to say, but, frankly, looks like it was ignored (even if I was being arrogant there) :(

[P@ndel]

makkE, you cannot expect people to visit forums and see if there are any discussion regarding a new version of the game. However, now that the release was made, and more players started to play the new version, i strongly suggest that we should start the real discussion about how AC should be shaped in the future right now. Everyone (well, at least most "prominent players") now has a feeling of how 1.1 works, and its gameplay. The truth is that the gameplay between the old and the new versions is very different. The new version has a new weapon, to begin with, which makes the game very distinctive from 1.0.4. This by itself, not even mentioning about armor, weapon damages etc., requires development of new tactics, which drastically changed the overall AC gameplay in 1.1. Some may say that this is only a matter of time and getting used to, but for me it is a bit more than that. I just hope that you could consider my request to make a further, more thorough discussion of the new AC, its features and its gameplay.

Thank you!

P@ndel

[titiPT]

I haven't read all the texts, only till brahma's where he says the bad things about 1.04 and the good stuff about 1.1. Just wanted to point out that having nades has a primary weapon ISN'T being a nade spammer.
The changes introduced have killed the nades. In my opinion, or you would put 1nade-> 1 frag or 1 nade per spawn. Both, imo, put the nades below the knife.

[Zomg!]

You should have left 1.0.4 alone. It's better.

[DaRealRocky]

hater ^ .. learn to lave

[Chill]

Zomg! i thought so too...but then i re-thought. I think some change was necessary...but not all that had been changed. With the sniper, i like the whole 2 pistol shots to kill after a sniper shot, but there was no reason, in my opinion, to increase the spread without the scope up.
The changes with the AR were perfect, the SMG i just cant use in 1.1 :/ and i like the nades now that im used to them

[makkE]

The unscoped spread of the sniper has not been touched since 0.92 or so...