Why* are** all the** marginal** clans dying?*

[DES|Anderson]

Someone should provide chronology here, many claim to be oldest lest see if we can put this in some order. Post the dates the various clans were started here...

[Apollo{TyD}]

To make it clearer ...

This happens when there is a change in AC just like 1.0 to 1.1 Clans will fall and new ones will rise...its the cycle of AC

with one exception <3

w00p is that exception.

w00p is the oldest AC clan, so it's the only exception.

My

dont think so

was meant in that way, that w00p isn't the only long-time-running clan who survived a game change.

Btw:

• 2006-08-16 MCNNM (are they still existing?)
  
• 2006-10-17 w00p
  
• 2006 acKa (sometimes in the autumn)
  
• 2007-06-?? BC
  
• 2007-11-22 TyD!
  
• 2007-12-01 DES
  
• 2007-12-06 oNe
  
• 2008-01-?? KH
  
• 2009-11-?? MyS
  
• 2010-03-01 BoB
  
• ...
  

Dates are retrieved from the wiki. If someone is able to give a confirmation that MCNNM is still around, than this group is the oldest one.

[Orynge]

MCNNM were recently removed from the clan-list.

[sniperz]

What about A&D (Armed and Dangerous), are they still existing?

[Syntax]

Btw:

• 2006-08-16 MCNNM (are they still existing?)
  
• 2006-10-17 w00p
  
• 2006 acKa (sometimes in the autumn)
  
• 2007-06-?? BC
  
• 2007-11-22 TyD!
  
• 2007-12-01 DES
  
• 2007-12-06 oNe
  
• 2008-01-?? KH
  
• 2009-11-?? MyS
  
• 2010-03-01 BoB
  

Dates are retrieved from the wiki. If someone is able to give a confirmation that MCNNM is still around, than this group is the oldest one.

There was a discussion awhile back about MCNNM being that old. But that would make them two months older than the date AssaultCube was released.

You can read about how the date is incorrect here: http://forum.cubers.net/thread-318-post-...ml#pid5191

Or...

Hi all.

So, i think we need help of game developers because only they can say the correct date of beginning the game.

I remember that my first time in AC was in May 25, 2006. I remember it because, was my sister's birthday one day after. We don't know the date of creation of MCNNM, we know only that it was in August. The 16th was chosen because it's my birthday :D

The MCNNM never ended. Only played a few times as we work, study, dated, we are mainly another timezone, if you never met us on a server, is the reason we lived in different countries.

I'm just talking about AC, we are a clan of AC, I think it should be supportive of AC clans here, where we were just one clan of AC.

This would have been impossible to have taken place in May 25th, 2006, because AC wasn't even released yet!

[Krayce]

And about -xW- ? :O

The team was founded in June 2009, so before MyS :)

proof : http://wiki.cubers.net/action/view/Xtrem_Warriors :D

Cordially, Krayce ;)

[Cap0ne]

=SA= also is an active clan. Maybe not the most competitive but still there :P.
Roster is updated as usual on http://sa-clan.tk aka http://sa-clan.gamerzfun.com/
Seems the wiki page needs an update tho :/
http://wiki.cubers.net/action/view/The_Sniper_Alliance
Regards,
Cap0ne

[Scorpion]

because the game never have a Update

not more

[Alien]

A&D founded in 4 March 2007(wiki) but first aCKa sites (http://acka.zeblog.com/c-news) was founded in 22/02/07 (counter date) but it is wrong because Deathstar was firstly in A&D and then moved to his clan, the same it was for Spartan and his MCNNM. So A&D have ti be older. Zink clan (http://zink.timot.net/) was after A&D and aCKa. There was else MD with Nova (he was in A&D too), Apollo and Megalodon.

i don't remember wOOp from that times, i think they were more Sauer clan or they played in other time zone. In 0.93 in their clan were more Sauer players than AC.

I doubt about "BC before TyD", i think BC was created by people who haven't moved from MD to TyD. MD was merged by MD and TAC.

The first real AC clan was A&D. They produced the most players of 0.93 community.

Nice is: aCKa is still active. :)

[Apollo{TyD}]

i don't remember wOOp from that times, i think they were more Sauer clan or they played in other time zone. In 0.93 in their clan were more Sauer players than AC.

This is also my impression; at least cause the first public beta of AC has been released at 2006-11-04 - when the clan already existed.

I doubt about "BC before TyD", i think BC was created by people who haven't moved from MD to TyD.

Wrong.

BC already existed before TyD and ofc before MD (the be precise: the second MD; Nova formed this clan twice), which was the predecessor of TyD.

Btw there were also a few brazilian/latin american clans to that time, like ACAL (in which Nova and I met firstly). But talking about DEAD clans is usless imo.

[YourSister]

the point was that lots of clans during the transition from 1.04 to 1.1 lost their power, for example members become less active, or they couldnt adapt to the new balance of weapons and the new maps so their skill decreased

[Habluka]

because the game never have a Update

not more

actually, it's generally the updates that make teams die since people tend to not like change so they stop playing.

[DES|Anderson]

this is great can someone provide info on when updates were released, am gonna make a chronological graph of AC hsitory, also any other significant events, note significant so myke gregories first teabag doesnt count...

[Apollo{TyD}]

this is great can someone provide info on when updates were released,

http://actiongame.svn.sourceforge.net/vi...story.html

due the lost of the old forums not all "other significant events" can be reconstructed anyway.

[Stranz]

for the list: 3" -> 1.11.2008

There's a difference between being inactive and dying, most of old clans have less activity as it members quit playing or lose interest by time, obviously over the years they will find some new applicants whose refresh it roster and keep clan alive. I am sure there will be a big amount of clan players coming back after new version.

Also it tends to happen that clans use to die with new players or former members of old clans, most of them disappear on matter of few weeks or months to start another and fail to join/return to a one of these clans we see on the list.

[jamz]

...due the lost of the old forums not all "other significant events" can be reconstructed anyway.

...which is why we rely on people like you and Alien, and any other players from those 0.93 days and before, to remember. You know who you all are.

I'm with you two on the 'oldest AC clan' thing. If w00p and MCNNM (still showing on the master server last month, but not this month, yet) are proven to have existed before AC's first public release, they're not AC clans; they're clans that moved into AC. aCKa is undoubtedly the longest running AC clan. I didn't know A&D preceded them Alien, but I do know they needed reviving at one point.

Getting back to the thread, clans are just like people; they die. There's no reason to believe that, even if AC is still holding 100-300 players, any of the current clans will still be around in 10 years time.

[ExodusS]

w00p is the oldest AC clan, so it's the only exception.

Nope

[Atrimos]

well, the first clan in which i played was D|A "Death Alliance" formed by Cazador, luciusan, Zkario, Tavo, T1n and me, I think that was formed in 2007 but cant remember the day.

[Dade]

Answer is very simple, a game intended for casual gaming will make life harder for clans.

If you then add a complete lack of important features - such as decide how much time you want a map to be played, warm up time for cm, etc. - and a real/official AC regular competition, your equation can only give a result. Regarding this last thing, clans have not real reasons to exist on AC as they do not have a real - ladders are pure casuistic - way to compare their skills with others (thus improve and keep playing).

Plus, fresh ideas are taken more as an attack to AC than, at least, a test to see if they are good or bad ideas. Not all ideas are going to be good for the game but, specially in the case of an OpenSource game as AC, they should at least be implemented to see 'what if' instead of not giving them a chance. From my own experience, I've recently tried to give an help to the AC Project with a proposal for the site that intends to generate - at least, supposing it was not going to work well - benefits of more than 100 euros monthly (I estimated 150 euros per month to my contact) and I've got very surprised when I received an answer stating "none of these are worth the work required to action them". Of course, it's not about 'as it is my idea, it's good, why you don't like it?' but I can't believe a project which founds are based on donations and site ads does not even want to give a try to such a proposal with 0 investment, as I'm still freaking when a site master of here told me he don't rely on site statistics/traffic to drive the site. Don't worry anyway, I've no intention on giving names (at least in public).

Last but not least, it seems there is - at least apparently - too much confrontation between dev team (and inside dev team itself) and the overall community. Probably - this is a very personal opinion - due to a lack of communication and leadership from the dev team; all debates seems to be a personal fight for the freedom of Earth and don't really concludes in anything good for the game itself.

Finally, so I hope no one would say I just critic with no proposals, there are some actions I would take if I were PM (Project Manager) of AC:
- Kill zombies. This is kick out any member of the dev team that is not doing/able-to-do their job in the crew; as it will help to take decisions and allocate resources (yes, time is a resource :))
- Give stability to the project. Aka give a near-to-definitive balance to weapons, identify what you want each weapon for and maybe introduce little changes on major releases when there's evidence of a lack of balance
- Reach FPS industry standard features. Team Damage on/off (and even reverse team damage), dedicated server package, server administration tools, more user-friendly UI, box to type password for private servers, and a big large etc. You could even extend this part to 'Reach FPS eSports features standards', f.e. warm up, auto time based side switch, shoutcast view, FPS limits, and another large etc.
- Build a PR (Public Relations) Department. A project needs people dedicated to care about both internal (with other AC communities / related companies) and external (other games, generalist communities, press, etc.) relationships and a voice to trust when public announcements are made
- Make a huge opinion poll. Discover what's worrying your fan base and what they are expecting from the dev team and the game itself, and then act in consequence of course xD
- Make it easier for users to contribute, for example, make a blog section dedicated to clans, so they can post their news to the overall community
- Ease accessibility to the site. As multi-language interface seems to be considered as a taboo subject, I'd ask to enable Facebook Connect as soon as possible
- Give people a reason to stay in your site. I guess this portal is one of the main incomes of the project, more visits (and time in the site) means more incomes for the project

Thats all, hope I have bored ppl enough,
GGz!

[Scorpion]

make a good update fast,and me and my friends back to the game

[Orynge]

make a good update fast,and me and my friends back to the game

They've been working on the update that'll come out "soon" for over a year now. :|

[Joe Smith]

"Plus, fresh ideas are taken more as an attack to AC " <- this is true

[Nativo]

I think Dade is right in almost every aspect of his comment but my oppinion for why clans die is a little different. I believe that all communities (and clans are communities) rely on relationships and structure. Regardless of their hability ppl need something to share and identify with inside a clan, otherwise any clan would be ok. That feeling of belonging is what keeps you inside a group. It doesn´t matter if you play good, excellent or totally freaking awesome...you can play that way by yourself too...the things you share with your teammates are the bonds that keep a clan alive and the will to participate and belong is the key to a long existence.
In many cases this bonds are based on skill, I´m not saying that it´s not important, I´m just saying that u need more than skill to keep a community alive and it takes a lot of effort from all members of the community itself.
cya.

[jAcKRoCk*]

The fact is even if clans die the players of those clans remain playing, and for Dade: You may don't like the fact that new ideas will not even be discussed by the devs, but you have to remember something: this is a free project, that is really they'r project and they let us play it, which means that to implement those things you pretty much have to do it yourself, otherwise there's not enough people or time in the day to implement many of those things.

On the other hand you came to AC right when the change from 1.0 to 1.1 took place, maybe that's the reason you feel the game lacks of structure or a solid Dev Team, but truth is that change took many of us by surprise, and many didn't like the new weapon balance (many don't like it now) hence the necessity of taking more time to share the new version.

Players will always be here, even if not the ones we know so clans will come and go as always.

[Dade]

Indeed Jackrock, there are other 'social' reasons because clans ends their cycle of life but you may agree with me that in this last period there seems to be sufficient information to affirm that the are other reasons behind it (just see that not only 'newbies' clans are dying).

However, the fact that we are a community built around a free project, isn't any excuse from not analyze the proposals made from the community and give them an adequate answer. As far I know, free software is based on the collaboration between developers and users (and it seems the Free Software Foundation site states the same). Do not even doubt that I would be helping actively the project if I ever had the knowledge to do it, unfortunately I can't have this honor but I try to give an almost 10 years old experience on FPS to all the people that wishes to listen.

Regarding weapons balances and 1.0-1.1 upgrades, I'm not wishing to start a debate on which is better that another. I'm just stating that the sooner the dev team clarifies, and possibly stabilize, the situation around balancing all the community will benefit, despite a decision or another.

GGz!

[CoOk13]

1 Sentence to Solve everything is
"BECAUSE SOME CLANS ARE EMBARRASSED TO GET RAPED BY OTHER CLANS"
Done lika Pro

[Habluka]

- Kill zombies. This is kick out any member of the dev team that is not doing/able-to-do their job in the crew; as it will help to take decisions and allocate resources (yes, time is a resource :))

http://sourceforge.net/projects/actionga...Repository just because for the most part, a lot of changes haven't been made recently doesn't mean you should completely kick them out. Remember that these devs are basically working for free since nobody donate and they don't run ads on the site so they aren't going to be putting in as much time as someone who is getting a salary for doing the same thing. Compared to a lot of other small games like this, AC actually has pretty active developers, so don't complain about how much they work, especially when they are working for free.

- Give stability to the project. Aka give a near-to-definitive balance to weapons, identify what you want each weapon for and maybe introduce little changes on major releases when there's evidence of a lack of balance

The recent major releases have had small changes to the weapons in terms of balance. The problem is that with weapons like the ones used in AC, very small changes go a very long way, like changing the sniper damage to 80 from 85. In general, the weapons probably will stay close to how they are right now as you can basically deal with any of them if you are good with whatever weapon you like, and the thing about the 1.1 releases is that every weapon has some purpose and depending on the map/playstyle of enemies, each one will be able to be used well (smg is still shit). Balance wise, everything for the most part is fine unless you aren't used to the release.

- Reach FPS industry standard features. Team Damage on/off (and even reverse team damage), dedicated server package, server administration tools, more user-friendly UI, box to type password for private servers, and a big large etc. You could even extend this part to 'Reach FPS eSports features standards', f.e. warm up, auto time based side switch, shoutcast view, FPS limits, and another large etc.

Friendly fire could easily be turned off, but it is part of what adds to the reason why I like AC in the first place, you can't just sit back and spam weapons, so changing that is out of the picture unless you want to create your own mod, which wouldn't be hard to do. When it comes to the ui, it's perfectly fine in all regards. Also, there are already community made mods give an easier to use ui for servers. Your 'fps eSports features standards' either won't be problems due to changes that have been made for future releases or are completely pointless in a game like this as AC is not a truly competitive game outside of a few random community run tournaments that happen from time to time (look at what happened when davi tried to make it happen).

- Build a PR (Public Relations) Department. A project needs people dedicated to care about both internal (with other AC communities / related companies) and external (other games, generalist communities, press, etc.) relationships and a voice to trust when public announcements are made

go into irc and you can talk to the devs yourself. #1 pr imo. Without a really large staff, you can't have a real pr department, so that won't happen any time soon

- Make a huge opinion poll. Discover what's worrying your fan base and what they are expecting from the dev team and the game itself, and then act in consequence of course xD

The fans are completely subjective and listening to them about everything will make everything worse as everyone has different opinions. For example, if I got my way, smg would be crazy broken, ar would be shit for anything other than flag runs, shotgun would be shit outside of really close range, and sniper would be like it was in 1.0, which would piss off a lot of people making it worse.

- Make it easier for users to contribute, for example, make a blog section dedicated to clans, so they can post their news to the overall community

The community isn't large enough for your voice not to be heard by anyone. If you have something to post about your news, just put it in the forums and a lot of people will see it including old players from old and well known clans (KH REPRESENT!!!!!!!!!!).

- Ease accessibility to the site. As multi-language interface seems to be considered as a taboo subject, I'd ask to enable Facebook Connect as soon as possible

no

- Give people a reason to stay in your site. I guess this portal is one of the main incomes of the project, more visits (and time in the site) means more incomes for the project

only good way to really generate any more income from the site would likely be through actually using ads, so no.

[Ronald_Reagan]

Actually, there are ads :>
Look down there
|
|
v

[Habluka]

Actually, there are ads :>
Look down there
|
|
v

must have them blocked then

[jAcKRoCk*]

Habluka said it better