Destruction League's opening

[FunkyHamster]

About FunkyHamster questions, please forgive me if I don't answer you all but if I do we move far and far away from thread (but expect a PM ;)). Regarding our site content, as far I know almost all content is public. If not, most probably there is a mistake on permissions, so can you specify what you are exactly referring to? And referring to a shorter version of the rules, yes, I am already working on that and probably will be posted on latest sign-ups week.

Thank you for the answer!

I will be waiting for the PM. Please write in Spanish if you think it will be faster or better.

[RIPBillyMays]

As I see it, trying to disallow sniper/pistol will most likely not go too well. Not only is it a legitimate strategy and part of the game (it was nerfed for a reason), but there is also a wide line at whether or not the combo is being used, and that can and will lead to a lot of conflicts.
Edit: Looks like sniper/pistol is allowed now, so scratch that then.

So anyways I'd love to form a team of clanless members like Dade suggested, PM me if you're interested. I've been playing AC for nearly two years but never felt inclined to join a clan for various reasons. Mainly because I've yet to find one that is both populated by mature players and willing to recruit new blood.

[FunkyHamster]

So anyways I'd love to form a team of clanless members like Dade suggested, PM me if you're interested. I've been playing AC for nearly two years but never felt inclined to join a clan for various reasons. Mainly because I've yet to find one that is both populated by mature players and willing to recruit new blood.

I am willing to consider this option. If you like copy me in the PM's.

[Alex007]

I propose to allow 3v3 games only when a team can’t get 4 players for the match and the other team (the rival in turn) agree to have a 3v3 match, then you can do it.

Dade if they want 3v3 match and the 2 teams agree, I don’t see a big issue for that, and being this the first season or attempt for try to create a Permanent AC League and the community ask for a few matches in 3v3 and others matches 4v4 when they can, is cool for me.

After all what we want is just play and have fun, and not argue for small details at less I don’t.

Also some of the reasons are that here in AC the Clans have enough members but not all are active players, and other clans like the new and Rookies just have few and perhaps this will help them to recruit and grow.

On the other side sometimes I just connect during the day in AC only to see who are online playing or I use the search web of Clan Players of =MyS= http://clansearch.mysick.tk/ and I almost always see online 2, 3, 4 players from a Clan at the same time, so maybe all this clans need is just a little more of communication between them cause if during the days of the week some players of a same clan meet at the same time, I don’t see a big problem try it on a Saturday or Sunday for a match, besides you have 2 weeks and probably more for each game.

So yea I propose 3v3 matches only on those cases, the rest and the majority in 4v4.

Also because personally my original idea of try to make biger this league from the beginning was because after this league grow up a bit and with support from the AC community I personally going to propose register this league in http://clanbase.com/ which is the main site of Global Gaming Network Community http://www.ggl.com/ If the Staff of Clan Base accepts, this will help to AC get more popularity as a Free Open Source Game, and making that more gamers around the world give a try to AC, some of them will stay others no, some big clans of world class will be interested in AC and expand to here maybe, more support for the game too you know donations, hosting, development, more brains together etc etc.

cya in the game

PD: FunkyHamster me extraña karnalito, hace ratos hubieras ido a registrarte en nuestro foro para cualquier duda, hasta hay un Chat ahora cuando estas logeado y tmb esta el servidor de Mumble, o tmb en AC España q desde el año pasado q tenemos la Sección de la Liga por aya xq la idea original era hacer un torneo solo de clanes amigos, Incluso se invito a SuaveDude y a vos a [ED] después que {IAM} R.I.P.

[Undead]

you clearly have never played a 4vs4 match in AC. its extremely messy and like running around a pub, pretty impossible to break flags and slows the pace of the game down. 3vs3 is just the perfect format for AC.

[Dade]

First of all I would like to advice that rules have been 're-written' to a more human friendly english, hence now should be far easier to understand. Moreover, we introduced a far explanation of the penalizations system (1.1.1, 1.1.2 & 7), reworked match rules (before/during/after a match) and clarified all the Deception / Fraud section, as clarified some 'minor' rules and adding other ones (7.3 for example).

So anyways I'd love to form a team of clanless members like Dade suggested, PM me if you're interested. I've been playing AC for nearly two years but never felt inclined to join a clan for various reasons. Mainly because I've yet to find one that is both populated by mature players and willing to recruit new blood.

I hope you can go further on this, and if not try to join some of the existing clans (so you can help them to fit the 4v4 requirement :)). Anyway, as for your project, feel free to use ED's social network to create yourself a group and organize from there. FunkyHamster understands spanish, so it may be of help if he finally apply for your project :).

I propose to allow 3v3 games only when a team can’t get 4 players for the match and the other team (the rival in turn) agree to have a 3v3 match, then you can do it.

Rules are already considering this case.

If a team agreed with another to have a match on a certain day and hour, it's their players fault if they can't get all the players on that moment; that's why we don't give fixed match days for the league.

As for issue or not... there is a big one. Remember that flags are deterministic if a points tie occurs between two or more teams. Match format or another, will have an impact on total number of flags. This said, would it be fair to compare teams that have played different match formats? League needs to have closest criteria in order to give fair rankings.

Also some of the reasons are that here in AC the Clans have enough members but not all are active players, and other clans like the new and Rookies just have few and perhaps this will help them to recruit and grow.

This remember me a case&solution on Ghost Recon League. We simply decided to give each clan the possibility to 'ally' with another one (which, in this case, won't be on the same division to void any possible conflict of interests). This means they can recall on an allied player if they are missing their last player in order to play a match.

Regarding Clan Base, I have been staff of CB (Game SuperVisor), and they do not support leagues but ELO ladders.

you clearly have never played a 4vs4 match in AC. its extremely messy and like running around a pub, pretty impossible to break flags and slows the pace of the game down. 3vs3 is just the perfect format for AC.

Of course it will be harder to get a flag, but is not 'mission impossible' with a proper team organization and strategy; and anyway, it would raise the pace of the game as there are more actors in the match.

I am with you that on certain small maps it can be 'messy', but as far I see AC maps have usually 3 ways to get from a team spawn to another and they are far differentiated enough for a 4vs4 match (perhaps, even for a 5vs5). Considering it all, the real problem is not the match format itself but the impossibility of setting a server-side respawn time without editing server source codes.

GGz!

[Alex007]

Ok mang I think all is clear now, there is no need of follow spamming here, everybody interested feel free to visit our forum for any doubt and question, when you are logged in our forum we got a tiny flash chat like the facebook one, so you can ask any doubt in there I will try to be online this days if I’m not maybe Dade is around there. There is also our private mumble server the address is in our web.

So let’s see what happened I’m happy with 2 Divisions of 8 teams.

dude obviously will be ELO and about the ClanBase topic lol did you forget I already contact from the beginning of this the last year to the Crew of ClanBase and receive a long answer and this are the main requirements (I send you a mp with this lol)

Part of the answer for create new League and Sub forum for the game are:

1) ClanBase only creates the "league" when he thinks there is a "market" for them. When a new game or mod comes out, we typically create an international league for that, and leagues by country and / or regions are made later when the International starts to be a bit overloaded.

2) If you want to get ClanBase create a league for a certain type of game or a certain country, we must be convinced that there are 10 clans interested to play in that league, for example by sending a request or having 10 logins for clan leaders to answer that demand in the forum "Helpdesk".

3) Participation is not restricted in certain countries leagues being of another nationality. The only restriction is that this league matches must be played on servers in the host country of the league. To enter a league of a country or region other than your own, use the following trick: change the nationality of the clan, sign up, and then switch back their nationality.

And follow other requirements but these are the principals.

ok enough spamming and more gamming


cya in the game

[Jason]

you clearly have never played a 4vs4 match in AC. its extremely messy and like running around a pub, pretty impossible to break flags and slows the pace of the game down. 3vs3 is just the perfect format for AC.

Of course it will be harder to get a flag, but is not 'mission impossible' with a proper team organization and strategy; and anyway, it would raise the pace of the game as there are more actors in the match.

Dude, O3, and say =MyS= in 4v4. I doubt either one would score a flag, it would just be frags. It was the same when |eR| played Fra| and |oNe| 4v4 - it just came down to frags, unlike other games like say BC2, you can't kill someone in 3 bullets, run into cover and move up. It just doesn't work. You'll always have someone ready to cover. If a team lets a flag through in 4v4, there are issues, and I admit I have done it, and so have other teams, but 1 mistake shouldn't mean a whole match. Like Undead said 3v3 is perfect.

Also I lol'ed when you brought Clanbase into this. We might as well mention ESEA too whiles we're at it. olololol.

[MykeGregory]

i'm gonna back |eR| for now. they seem like cool guys, never played any of the other clans, to my knowlege

[jAcKRoCk*]

All of them are right, with a 4v4 format you can't have a nice strategy since there's a lot of people, with skills not pub wise, it will be a frag fest, each clan (as far as i'm aware) have a 3v3 team that's like the Unwriten Rule of clan matchs, it's better for you (and for us) to have the 3v3 matchs, a 4v4 and 5v5 match it's pointless.

[Dade]

Dude, O3, and say =MyS= in 4v4. I doubt either one would score a flag, it would just be frags. It was the same when |eR| played Fra| and |oNe| 4v4 - it just came down to frags, unlike other games like say BC2, you can't kill someone in 3 bullets, run into cover and move up. It just doesn't work. You'll always have someone ready to cover. If a team lets a flag through in 4v4, there are issues, and I admit I have done it, and so have other teams, but 1 mistake shouldn't mean a whole match. Like Undead said 3v3 is perfect.

But then again, the real problem does not seems to be the match format itself but the 5 seconds respawn time, isn't it? Perhaps raising it somehow to 10 seconds may solve all issues?

I understand your point of view, but most maps are way too big/large for a proper match on a 3v3 format. On some maps it would even have more paths than players on the field...

I tried 4v4 and I don't see much issues... I would like to watch a replay of a 4v4 match of 'pro' clans matching to see all this problems that most people is telling here, so we can have a better view of the situation.

GGz!

[FunkyHamster]

I tried 4v4 and I don't see much issues...

Can you share the demo with us please?

[Dade]

I tried 4v4 and I don't see much issues...

Can you share the demo with us please?

I am sorry I can't because I don't have it here (maybe on another PC, but i'm not 100% sure) :(

GGz!

[Dade]

Hi all!!

I have been talking with some random players about team sizes and seems to be both people wishing to play as 'old-school' (3vs3) and who’s wishing to give a try to 'something new' (4vs4). We are working to make a competition which raise the importance of teamwork skills instead of individual skills.

This said, I would like to know clans about our current ideas to get rid of the 'team size issue'. Feel free to post here or send a PM with your opinions about this proposals, but please don't get into topic if your team is not going to play the league at all (1.0 clans/players for example).

As we talk, there are currently three ways we would like to do sove this:

A) 4vs4 with Rifle Sprint, as it has been purposed until now

B) 3vs3 where flag carrier cannot make use of Rifle Sprint (both CTF and HTF)

C) Give teams the possibility to decide between option A or B on match arrangements. This would lead on an extra privilege to the home – or away – team, or establishing directly A or B as default in case the team couldn't reach an agreement.

Now about the most probable discussion, why allowing or not RS depending on match size? As said on the very start of this post, we are trying to raise the importance of teamwork skills. We truly believe that voiding RS on 3vs3 will 'force' teams to a better coordination in order to achieve their goals. Maybe on CTF can't be seen that clear, but take into example HTF, where a single player can hide faster than the enemy can reach him... I think it would be funnier both for flag seekers and carriers (as well for their teams). At the same time, we are aware that on 4vs4 it would be harder to get a flag than on a 3vs3 and that's why we wish to allow it on 4vs4.

Please, avoid comments like 'we are used to it, why we should not use it' or similars, we are completely aware that RS is currently used on daily 3vs3 matches, but we are trying to give a fresh point of view to the game and rising team play.

GGz!

[V-Man]

D) 3v3 with any (non-blacklist-able) tactic allowed.
Reasons to support this:

1) The fewer people in your team, the more closely you'll need to work as a team in order to succeed (thus, better teamwork is better rewarded).

2) If any tactic shouldn't be allowed, the devs have placed measures to hinder its use. Rifle sprint just isn't on this menu -- it's an intended feature of the game, just like having a pistol or just like being able to bounce nades.

3) Rifle sprint probably has a positive effect on teamwork, if any effect at all: It takes good team coordination to cover your back in order to safely rifle sprint, and it takes good team coordination to effectively combat rifle sprinting.

Why am I so avid about defending rifle sprint when I hardly ever use it? ...

[jAcKRoCk*]

But then again, the real problem does not seems to be the match format itself but the 5 seconds respawn time, isn't it? Perhaps raising it somehow to 10 seconds may solve all issues?

what are you talking about?, the 5 sec spawn can also be a estrategy, it has nothing to do with the spawn time, with a decent amount of skill a 4v4 it will be like TDM and not CTF (maybe in HTF will be cool) but then again it's kinda odd.

[titiPT]

D) 3v3 with any (non-blacklist-able) tactic allowed.
Reasons to support this:

1) The fewer people in your team, the more closely you'll need to work as a team in order to succeed (thus, better teamwork is better rewarded).

2) If any tactic shouldn't be allowed, the devs have placed measures to hinder its use. Rifle sprint just isn't on this menu -- it's an intended feature of the game, just like having a pistol or just like being able to bounce nades.

3) Rifle sprint probably has a positive effect on teamwork, if any effect at all: It takes good team coordination to cover your back in order to safely rifle sprint, and it takes good team coordination to effectively combat rifle sprinting.

Why am I so avid about defending rifle sprint when I hardly ever use it? ...

Dade, please read this VERY carefully.

[Dade]

Finally found a way to get ED site interface into english! Check this tutorial so you can switch ED site interface into english and don't forget joining the new fresh League of Destruction group on ED social network, so you can stay tuned on latest news as they will be announced there since the closing of sign-ups.

Regarding the 'match format issue', during 19-20th of January we should give an official response. Main while, we are still looking for clans votes of the given poll.

Dade, please read this VERY carefully.

I read it as 10 times, but I don't see a vote for the poll (apart the fact that I asked to avoid such comments/posts).

GGz!

[FunkyHamster]

I read it as 10 times, but I don't see a vote for the poll (apart the fact that I asked to avoid such comments/posts).

First of all, your instructions are not accessible unless you register yourself in your forum. Can you enable a guest access? Most people, including myself, won't register in a forum without knowing if there is something really interesting there. Take as an example the AC forum; all the content is accessible with a guest account.

I think you are missing the point that this is an open community. It's not very elegant to tell somebody what they should post about.

I think that DES|V-Man and titiPT opinions were very pertinent. Don't you think you are going too far by asking them not to post?

PS: I asked you a couple of questions in this thread, you told me that you were going to reply by PM and asked me to stop posting about that. I suspect that you are not going to reply at all. Are you really going to reply?

[Dade]

First of all, your instructions are not accessible unless you register yourself in your forum. Can you enable a guest access Most people, including myself, won't register in a forum without knowing if there is something really interesting there. Take as an example the AC forum; all the content is accessible with a guest account.

I don't know how much times I asked this but... for the 100th time, which part of the site is not accessible as guest I visited it as guest since the first time I have read this, and now again and I see no restrictions at all.

I think you are missing the point that this is an open community. It's not very elegant to tell somebody what they should post about.

If by saying "Please, avoid comments like 'we are used to it, why we should not use it' or similars, we are completely aware that RS is currently used on daily 3vs3 matches, but we are trying to give a fresh point of view to the game and rising team play you are reading any 'forcing' of users posts... then you may review your reading comprehension (or you might understand and then trying to flame - if that's the case...nice try! :) ) . I asked it pleasely and giving a reason for it... I don't see where I have not been 'elegant', thus I see people insulting on some posts and your are not them to show your 'disappointment' to them.

I think that DESV-Man and titiPT opinions were very pertinent. Don't you think you are going too far by asking them not to post

Have I done it? As far I know I just pleasely asked to stay on the poll topic, I don't see where is the problem. It's even on this forums rules...

PS I asked you a couple of questions in this thread, you told me that you were going to reply by PM and asked me to stop posting about that. I suspect that you are not going to reply at all. Are you really going to reply

And I will, but first I would like to make my university exams if you don't mind.

GGz!

PS: WtH, tags not closing :P

[#M|A#Wolf]

Make your university exams? You're a teacher?

[V-Man]

For the record, I don't feel like Dade disregarded my post or disallowed it in any way. His request was clear, and I responded in exactly the format and justification he asked for. No issue here.

[FunkyHamster]

Dade, I think you are right. Please disregard my previous post.

[Roflcopter]

I urge a few more teams to sign up -- rules and disagreements aside. AC needs leagues desperately.

That said, I see another rule I'd like clarifying: is the suicide command allowed in game? I came across the following section (right at the end in section 7):

Self kill/Team kill (on purpose) Player: 1 Team: 1

That is, it seems purposeful suicide and teamkilling is not allowed. I'd urge you to reconsider this since it is often essential for low health players to die.

For instance, there can be situations where enemy teams purposefully wound but do not kill a player so that they can easily finish them off later. That player would be unable to suicide and gain a worthwhile amount of health but also may not be able to heal in a sensible time frame. That would in itself lead to a far lamer situation where the payer had no real options to play.

I'd also like to note, it actually quite common for such a scenario in higher skilled clan matches.

[Dade]

As promised, here is an official response to the 'match format issue'. Trying to match this open community request we have been forced to change also some ranking criteria, and also taken this new rule modification to clarify a bit more the rules about certain aspects.

About Match Format
No restrictions at all, clans can fight both on 3vs3 or on 4vs4 as they agreed on the match arrangement (in-game decisions will not be taken into account to ensure transparency on matches). In order to ensure match agreements, standard match format is 4vs4, but whenever both team leaders agreed to match as 3vs3 it will be allowed.

This variation now leads us to modify our Ranking Criteria.

About Ranking Criteria
Our idea was to give a very emphasis on flags. However, we have been forced to change this into something more 'statistical' and hence introduced new rule 4.5: "In case of a tie on the overall league points, direct matches results (win or loss) will be taken into account. If a tie still exists, then it will be taken into account most wins during the league.".

We will look further into this, but as it is now, just take into account flags to decide who's the final winner of a match.

About Other Rules changes
Mainly there have been some clarification (or extra info) about game modifications, mostly taken from ESL ruleset. Main clarification, is the use of precompiled packages, both for servers and clients, as mandatory (just in case it was not clear from the rules itself).

That said, I see another rule I'd like clarifying: is the suicide command allowed in game?

As the rule said, it's not allowed; but Self/Assisted Team Kill isn't referred to that case. /suicide script will be punished as 'Illegal config/script setting'. It has been taked from ESL ruleset, and is wide known as unsportsmanlike behavior on almost any team based competition.

GGz!

[Ronald_Reagan]

Make AC even more realistic and when they /suicide, make it so they cant spawn anymore.

[V-Man]

Make it even more like ESL and invite cheaters to play.

[#M|A#Wolf]

Make it even more like ESL and invite cheaters to play.

Best idea evvuuurrr. You too, RR.

On a more serious note...

As the rule said, it's not allowed; but Self/Assisted Team Kill isn't referred to that case. /suicide script will be punished as 'Illegal config/script setting'. It has been taked from ESL ruleset, and is wide known as unsportsmanlike behavior on almost any team based competition.

You mean a suicide script isn't allowed but it is if you do it to help the team?

[Dade]

Make AC even more realistic and when they /suicide, make it so they cant spawn anymore.

Apart the fact you are joking, it wouldn't be a bad idea.

Make it even more like ESL and invite cheaters to play.

If ESL is not doing their job properly is not my fault, from Leagues of Destruction I can just say we will do our best and hope for the help of the participating clans. Aside, I don't think ESL is inviting anyone to play their ladders

As the rule said, it's not allowed; but Self/Assisted Team Kill isn't referred to that case. /suicide script will be punished as 'Illegal config/script setting'. It has been taked from ESL ruleset, and is wide known as unsportsmanlike behavior on almost any team based competition.

You mean a suicide script isn't allowed but it is if you do it to help the team?

you may review your reading comprehension (or you might understand and then trying to flame - if that's the case...nice try! :) )

Suicide Script is not allowed and Self/Assisted Team Kills are not allowed too. We are differentiating between a script and an action taken by players.

GGz!

[OpenSource]

So a miss with a nada so you suicid and/or teamkill will give you minus points?

Edit: That rules me out from this as im the #1 nada suicide/teamkiller.