Hitfixed clients

[BigGunZ]

Your playing using a modified client that help improve drops. Not everyone has access to this client to give them the same way of helping drops for themselves. I don't think it could be any more clear.

But many people have access to stable FPS that is a multiple of 25 which gives the same advantage. I am demonstrating to you that practices that are accepted as legal are insignificantly different to what I am doing. So much so that you can't show me any real difference between what I am doing and these accepted practices.

Here's a concrete example of something that meets all the criteria of your quote above but is accepted as definitely NOT cheating: recompiling your client (without changing any code) for more FPS. Let's see...

• I would be playing with a modified client
  
• that can help improve drops
  
• Not everyone would have access to it
  

I keep asking, what is the core difference is between faster graphics drivers and my client?

Not everyone has access to help drops the way your client is helping drops. Is not about whether someone can achieve a somewhat similar scenario with a better graphics card, it's about drawing a line and making sure it isn't stepped over.

[Roflcopter]

Not everyone has access to help drops the way your client is helping drops. Is not about whether someone can achieve a somewhat similar scenario with a better graphics card, it's about drawing a line and making sure it isn't stepped over.

Go back to the recompiling a client example, all the same criteria are met, including the fact that not everyone can help the issue in the same way (that way being by optimizing their client). There is no line you've suggested which my client steps over but which my other clearly legal examples don't. That's the problem with your argument.

[Vermi]

I'm interested to learn how this client would work if you had pj lag

[Alien]

It is cheat, you wouldn't be allowed to play with modified starcraft 2 client on Blizzard servers. Such players were always punished in past of AC. (even by me)

This discussion is about one "improvement", but certainly there are more of them. The naive strategy ,when you try to turtle your modified client to one feature, is ...

[Roflcopter]

When Carma capped his FPS at 75 and Vanquish at 500, 250 or 200 neither got a single unhit out of hundreds of shots. See Vanquish's edit above. Basically, this is in agreement with what I said, with a completely stable multiple of 25 FPS players appear to get no unhits.

Alien, other games' purported policies don't matter.

[BigGunZ]

Not everyone has access to help drops the way your client is helping drops. Is not about whether someone can achieve a somewhat similar scenario with a better graphics card, it's about drawing a line and making sure it isn't stepped over.

Go back to the recompiling a client example, all the same criteria are met, including the fact that not everyone can help the issue in the same way (that way being by optimizing their client). There is no line you've suggested which my client steps over but which my other clearly legal examples don't. That's the problem with your argument.

I think you know already where I believe the line should be based on my previous posts. We're just repeating ourselves now xD
Maybe someone else that has a strong opinion and cares to post can chime in here. Otherwise, i guess you're free to use the client. We have a weird process here on AC when it comes to issues like this..

edit: I just wanted to clarify that I don't agree with you using the client. We obviously have different views about what's acceptable or not, in this case. Your free to use it because everyone, especially those with authority, have definitely read this topic and don't care to reply or make any tough calls.

[Vermi]

gsf client should be banned tho

[gignu]

client should be in the next version of ac :) Would be so great

[Undead]

Alien, other games' purported policies don't matter.

they do, really. they serve as an example of what is good policy.

I think you know already where I believe the line should be based on my previous posts. We're just repeating ourselves now xD
Maybe someone else that has a strong opinion and cares to post can chime in here. Otherwise, i guess you're free to use the client. We have a weird process here on AC when it comes to issues like this..

edit: I just wanted to clarify that I don't agree with you using the client. We obviously have different views about what's acceptable or not, in this case. Your free to use it because everyone, especially those with authority, have definitely read this topic and don't care to reply or make any tough calls.

yeah, most of the people with authority are dense in the nostrils and unable to create structured arguments or consider other peoples' arguments critically. they simply don't listen or care to think of a proper response. i'd love to be proven wrong.

i had a discussion with larry over teamspeak on this issue.
he sucks at conveying arguments properly in a written format or he is selective with his information. i don't know.

he has a client. this client makes it so he ignore hit drops.
obviously, this gives a massive advantage over other players on non hit-fixed servers. the advantage is equal to that of a wall hack, spread hack, etc. in that it gives an extremely unfair advantage over the opponent. a player with equal aim to that of another will hit more bullets on average. all of his arguments and evidence to the contrary are bullshit.
thankfully, the vast majoirty of matchs are played on a hit-fixed server, rendering his client completely useless. unless..

in the situation where he uses the client on an un-fixed server, he has a clear cut advantage over everyone else, and is blatantly cheating, and this is the only situation where his client may cause an issue.

i suspect larry only made the client for servers which claim to be hit-fixed but in his opinion really aren't, in order to give himself a sense of security when playing. a player like larry, who is not at the top level of play and poor at critically improving themselves, requires that all variables that may be favoring the opponent to be either in his favor or on an equal playing field, which is an impossibility.

[#M|A#Wolf]

i suspect larry only made the client for servers which claim to be hit-fixed but in his opinion really aren't, in order to give himself a sense of security when playing

Yeah, I thought about this. Larry, what's the purpose of having a hitfixed client if you said you mostly play on fixed servers, where you shouldn't be having any drops anyways since it's fixed?

[DrauL]

Its the sense of "hitfixed".
I feel it on the gaia servers, i just dont care.

[OpenSource]

IMHO this hitfix client is giving the player using it a advantage over others not having it.
And havent we all agreed on that this types of clients are cheating?

Whats next, making a client that drops 5 in 100 shoot (aimbot) and this is okey...

[Roflcopter]

There is a client with the fix planned for ACWC (not by me).

I have stopped using this client and have only used it on fixed servers anyway so far.

It's a shame that high FPS players may have no unhits everywhere but the same is viewed cheating for those not as fortunate to have high FPS.
Most of you claiming it's cheating probably have enough FPS to avoid all unhits anyway.
I also don't think anyone has understood my argument which is rather flawless.

[ExodusS]

I have a strong computer with a great FPS (over 200 everywhere I want), and I have drops...

he sucks at conveying arguments properly in a written format

<15:51:02> "Larry": i'm older than you

[OpenSource]

I have stopped using this client and have only used it on fixed servers anyway so far.

Whats the different using it on a fixed server vs a non fixed server?
You mean that cos its a fixed server it should give the other players the same advantage as you anyway? I can see that, but it doesn't change the fact you have a client that non other has that give you an advantage.
Maybe on a fixed server and with your fixed client you have a even greater advantage vs other players.

It's a shame that high FPS players may have no unhits everywhere but the same is viewed cheating for those not as fortunate to have high FPS.
Most of you claiming it's cheating probably have enough FPS to avoid all unhits anyway.
I also don't think anyone has understood my argument which is rather flawless.

I dont have high FPS. Im lucky if it jumps to 200 in some maps. There is also maps i cant play because my FPS make it unplayable.
ac_industrialisies1.1 is one of them, if im lucky i have 40 FPS most places around the map, but some places i have 10-15 FPS. This even on Windows 7 and Ubuntu 10.04. Its a bit better on Ubuntu, but still not a playable map for me.

So this is not a high FPS player complaining. I just wish you gave this to the devs and talked to them without starting using this client and posting about it in public.

I have never been your biggest fan, but i see you know stuff about coding and shit. Im just concerned what you do with the skills that others dont have. Im of course talking about this game and not other stuff you have going in life.

[Roflcopter]

It gives no advantage on fixed servers.

[Marti]

'I'm older than you' is a pretty solid arguement

[Oracle]

Larry, honestly I don't understand why you publicized this.

• You won't listen to any of the arguments that people are making against using this client
  
• There's not much that we (the rest of the community) can do to convince you or even prevent you from using the client besides either BLing you (but as jamz said, what's the point :P) or perhaps banning your client from the private servers (many of which you have admin on lol).
  
• Any "competitive" match player like you would probably play only on servers that claim to be hitfixed. But if this client gives no advantage on hitfixed servers, why use it? What's more, if you hadn't told people you were using this client, how would people have noticed? As Wolf and Undead pointed out, this seems less like an actual practical client, but more like an elaborate publicizing of your distrust of servers that don't use your hitreg (aka the gaia servers, which claim to be hitfixed).
  

I use a touchpad rather than a mouse - this gives me a disadvantage when playing against mouse users, such as in more complicated movement. Does this allow me from using the jump script? No! I could buy a mouse if I wanted to, but I don't see the point of using one outside of one game I play on this laptop, a free one at that.
If you really cared so much about this FPS, you probably would have bought a computer that allows better FPS. Even that seems a bit extreme, since AC already allows players to fix their FPS.

[jamz]

I haven't spoken to any other dev about this, but I think I'm speaking for them all (correct me if I'm wrong). Modifying your client binary, to give you an advantage over those with the default client, is cheating. That's it. Arguing that they could do it themselves without the mod is irrelevant. Arguing about graphics drivers, mice, monitors, whatever, is irrelevant. I hope this helps.
If tournaments want to have their own rules, that everybody taking part is happy to adhere to, that's fine, as long as any specially modified client doesn't get used on pub servers, or in private without informing opponents. Hell, Larry, if you made sure you told everyone in a private server what your client did before you played them, and they agreed that it was OK, that's fine too. But the same would be true if you told them you were going to use a no-spread client and they agreed.

Do you know what a certain, well-known, ex-dev did when he found out about this bug? He quit playing. (OK, maybe that wasn't the only reason, but I think it contributed.)
No, it's not ideal. Yes, we should fix it. Yes it should have been fixed long ago. Yes, it should never have happened in the first place. But none of this changes the present unhappy situation. Pleeeease don't cheat guys.

[Marti]

So Larry escapes a BL?

[Roflcopter]

Hell, Larry, if you made sure you told everyone in a private server what your client did before you played them, and they agreed that it was OK, that's fine too.

I almost always play on fixed servers anyway. When I don't, the players know and accept that I'm using this client.

[Vermi]

don't think it's bl worthy

[Fate]

I like grey areas

[jamz]

Larry hasn't escaped anything. By his own admission, which is the only evidence, he hasn't done anything wrong.