No reply from master server

[Unschool]

I have a server that is successful in launch but does not connect to the master server. It says "looking up assault.cubers.net..." but it does not say anything like "failed to ping master server." It was working a few days ago and I haven't made any dramatic changes to the server between this time.

[PhaNtom]

Can you send me the server logs of the error? This would help me in determining the problem.

[Edward]

Can you send me the server logs of the error? This would help me in determining the problem.

yeah it will help him !

[ärkefiende]

Unschool: if you really didn´t change a thing I guess you got a new IP address via DHCP from your router. And now your portforwarding entry is messed.

[Unschool]

I did not have server logging enabled at the time, so I do not have server logs.

Unschool: if you really didn´t change a thing I guess you got a new IP address via DHCP from your router. And now your portforwarding entry is messed.

I checked and this is not the case. Last time my router gave me a new internal IP, launching the server gave the "WARNING: failed to ping master server" error.

[Jg99]

Your server could be banned by jamz, since you have some Lua mods.
That may be the reason. I once got my server banned though for blinking description, but that was a long time ago and it was for one day

[Oracle]

Can you send me the server logs of the error? This would help me in determining the problem.

yeah it will help him !

...help him stop the corruption he's spreading :P

[TheThief]

heheheheeee.....
it's a problem...
it was happened with me...
AND I DON'T KNOW WHY!!!
WHY!!!!!!
but i just restarted my computer.

[jamz]

Your server could be banned...

This is exactly the reason, Unschool. I asked you to remove the gameplay-affecting mods and you didn't. PM me when you've removed !jump, !reset, and the no-damage mod, and I'll remove the ban.
In case anyone thinks I do this from spite, I had multiple complaints about the server.

[Unschool]

Your server could be banned...

This is exactly the reason, Unschool. I asked you to remove the gameplay-affecting mods and you didn't. PM me when you've removed !jump, !reset, and the no-damage mod, and I'll remove the ban.
In case anyone thinks I do this from spite, I had multiple complaints about the server.

I sent you a PM. I believe it is not done without spite, though you do not do it from your own spite. It is the spite of the people issuing "multiple complaints." If they know who you (jamz) are, then they probably play enough AC to know what GEMA is. I am assuming the complaints were primarily about the damage negation mod. Since these complainants must know what GEMA is, and since they sought to make it easier to violate the rules of GEMA, I conjecture that these individuals issued these complaints out of spite and out of spite only; any references to server rules made by these individuals I would label as rationalizations for their unsavory troll behavior. It is not unlike a player issuing complaints regarding a reduction of the kick threshold shortly after he made multiple attempts to go on a team killing spree. The server owner, of course, reduced the threshold precisely for the reason why the player in question wants the server banned: because the player wants to kill his teammates. Furthermore, unlike in regular game modes where friendly fire is an essential part of the gameplay that fuels the challenge, there is no reason for interpersonal damage in GEMA.

That being said, is there a definitive criteria for illegal mods? I fail to see any distinctions made by the phrase "gameplay-affecting mods" when the whole point of a mod is to affect gameplay, yet not all mods are illegal. Relatively invisible mods that are supposed to boost the performance of the server or things like hit reg fix are "gameplay-affecting mods"; if they were not, no one would bother installing them. What further blurs the distinction for me is my CubeScript scripting. Those who know me in-game know about my automatic micromanagement scripts, which I sometimes jokingly called "portable lua." After having developed these complicated scripts that enforce GEMA rules or knife-only rules to user-specified degrees of enforcement, I realized that there is simply no rational reason why the actions my scripts are designed to prevent by punitive measures should not be made impossible altogether as to give perfect enforcement. This perfect enforcement is of course in a completely different ballpark from, say, Zombie Mod; whereas perfect enforcement simply does a better job of accomplishing the same goal as my CubeScript scripts, Zombie Mod achieves a goal which cannot even be begun without mods. There is no other way to "enforce" ten thousand shotgun ammo or several hundred hit points other than to use server modifications. I cannot vote to increase maximum hit points and it would make no sense to vote-kick people for "failure to have a bajillion shotgun ammo." I read one of your posts that said "gameplay-affecting mods" are not allowed, and you gave only one example: !reset. This is an odd example to use, considering it does not do anything impossible; it does not change damage, ammo, health, or other variables to impossible values at impossible instances in-game and it is not even a "step-up" of CubeScript script. It is merely a server-sided translation of the spectator trick, which is typically done client-sided and aided by CubeScript. This trick may negatively affect gameplay if it was not explicitly allowed. But in the case of GEMA, it is explicitly allowed. Why not make it fair? Why not level the playing field by making this trick available to those who don't know CubeScript? !reset should be a good example of server modding saving the day to the delight of all. With servers like HsOs Serveur Gema consistently appearing towards the top of the server list and the extent to which such servers are modded, it is clear that not only do many people appreciate both passive and interactive utilitarian server mods, but these mods must also be legal (especially to have stayed on the server list relatively unchanged for so long, compared to my server which took between one to two weeks after modification to be blocked).

So what's the deal? After exhausting the vague and apparently inconsistent nature of the "gameplay-affecting mods" criteria, it is about time I climb out of my noobdom and finally see the more straightforward and thorough criteria you guys seem to be hiding.

[PhaNtom]

...help him stop the corruption he's spreading :P

Was this directed at me?

[Unschool]

...help him stop the corruption he's spreading :P

Was this directed at me?

See, Phantom. You accuse people of corruption with no respect to the meaning of the word and the result is your paranoia that people might think you're the corrupt one. Just pack up the corruption crap and lighten up! It's a good day! Besides, I lied about taking half. I took three quarters.

[1Cap]

Your server could be banned...

This is exactly the reason, Unschool. I asked you to remove the gameplay-affecting mods and you didn't. PM me when you've removed !jump, !reset, and the no-damage mod, and I'll remove the ban.
In case anyone thinks I do this from spite, I had multiple complaints about the server.

I sent you a PM... list relatively unchanged for so long, compared to my server which took between one to two weeks after modification to be blocked)....So what's the deal? After exhausting the vague...

Yes! All Criteria should be well clear!
For example, I can not connect my computer and my game does not simply access the MasterServer. For strange reasons...
Search the forum. There is never a clear reason for this.(ok, but be clear!)
However, i play games like "gema" for many years. They are very entertaining. So,
We've lost wonderful maps after invented criteria for creating maps. All maps are and are very similar. It's tiring. Boring, limitaded...
Even create maps got boring. Every day people try to create options to keep the game fun. And, then they are simply cut by one or a group of people who call themselves "owners" of the game.
But ok, I already read here i that forum who players do not coordinate anything. (DEV words)
Ok then, read this:
This game is not free. This community is not a community.
You pretend that moderate something interesting and free?
No, there are vested interests and attitudes unfounded at all times.
Have a clear documentation. Create clear rules. Mitigated clearly. Exemple:
Furthermore moderators should not belong to any clan .
-Create a different color from the list of servers for "gemas" .... Be not destructive but constructive .... IMO

hitreg fixed (lol you was a genius). :)

[Bukz]

Furthermore moderators should not belong to any clan .

Wasn't planning on replying to this thread until I seen this...

So just because someone is a moderator on these forums means that they should not be allowed to enjoy the clan life? What kinda fail logic is this?

On-topic: Servers that register on the public masterserver must abide by certain rules. One of those rules has always been no gameplay effecting modifications. When you implemented a no damage modification (among other things it seems), then registered your server to the masterserver that rule was breached, therefore the server was banned. Its as simple as that.

P.S. CubeScript can't really be put into the same category as gameplay effecting server mods. There are many things purposefully left out of cubescript to avoid effecting gameplay too much.

[ärkefiende]

Exemple:
Furthermore moderators should not belong to any clan .
-Create a different color from the list of servers for "gemas" .... Be not destructive but constructive .... IMO

I guess that wouldn´t allow me to be in a clan as well ...
Stupid nonsense! Politicians are allowed to be business men as well.

How does it come, that noone comes up with the idea using the modprotocol? There´s a simple switch you have to turn on in the source code to enable a mod.

[PhaNtom]

See, Phantom. You accuse people of corruption with no respect to the meaning of the word and the result is your paranoia that people might think you're the corrupt one. Just pack up the corruption crap and lighten up! It's a good day!

I don't have any worries about people thinking i'm corrupt.

Besides, I lied about taking half. I took three quarters.

If that wasn't a taunt, I don't know what is. If you want to start another fight, you are going the right way about it. So please stop.

[Thrawn]

[--snipped--]

First of all, X-ray_Dog's zombie mod server uses the mod protocol. It does not report to the masterserver as a normal server, which your server(s) did.

Secondly, I don't want to start another war about GEMA, so I will keep any comments about it to myself, other than the facts. GEMA is not an officially supported gamemode, and so you should not expect mods that facilitate the GEMA mode, to be allowed on servers that report to the masterserver regularly (as in, not using the mod protocol), because those servers are intended to be regular servers.

Thirdly, the hitreg fix is just that. A fix for a known bug. Afaik, it is pretty much universally agreed upon as being okay. Also, I do not wish to speak for the Devs, but seeing as how servers with that are not banned, it would appear that the Devs have pre-approved that fix? This is merely conjecture on my part however, and not based on any conversations with any of the devs.
In addition, afaik, the hitreg fix is only on match servers, which are not open to the public without a password. Whether or not being public or password-protected actually makes it more or less okay for server mods, is not my decision to make, and as such, I will provide no opinion on this subject.

Lastly,

This game is not free. This community is not a community.
You pretend that moderate something interesting and free?
No, there are vested interests and attitudes unfounded at all times.

[Insert rant about "If you don't like it, create a fork of AC and run it how you like" here]

Edit: Also, we are aware that you two (unschool and phantom) have issues with each other. We (the AC community at large) do not need to see your fights, and the public AC forums are not the place for such things. Please keep it private, thanks :)

[Unschool]

On-topic: Servers that register on the public masterserver must abide by certain rules. One of those rules has always been no gameplay effecting modifications. When you implemented a no damage modification (among other things it seems), then registered your server to the masterserver that rule was breached, therefore the server was banned. Its as simple as that.

Except it's not as simple as that. Your assertion that this rule is one-dimensional, black and white, either-or, etc. is inconsistent with the enforcement of the rule; practically every non-vanilla server contains a gameplay affecting modification. You seem to think "if server.gameplay_affected == true then serverlist.ban(server)" but this is clearly not the case. Are all the hit reg fixed servers going to be banned? Probably not, even though they are server modifications that affect gameplay. If they did not, no one except the server owner would care if the server had the modification. The fact that hit reg fix is a gameplay-affecting modification and the fact that hit reg fix servers are not banned under the gameplay-affecting modification rule demonstrate that the "gameplay-affecting" quality is multidimensional. Because it is multidimensional, such a rule requires a defined threshold for illegal gameplay-affecting modification such that both the enforcers of the rule and the server owners will know equally well when the threshold has been passed. Right now, the one-dimensional explanation of the rule which in practice is quite multidimensional (permitting a wide range of definitely gameplay-affecting modifications) causes a lot of confusion, with many server modders testing the limits in order to make their server the best allowed.

If AC would have at least a definite criteria for illegal gameplay-affecting modification, you would probably wouldn't see this server mod debate occur every week. Also jamz's job would probably be easier.

I am not saying (at least now now) that server modifications like damage negation should be allowed, I am arguing that a clear and definite criteria would reduce the incidence of rule violations; people would be more inclined to follow the rules if they know what they are.

---

If that wasn't a taunt, I don't know what is. If you want to start another fight, you are going the right way about it. So please stop.

That appears to be your main flaw. You have no sense of humor! Let's all laugh and joke and wonder what the fraction will be for your new clan.

---

GEMA is not an officially supported gamemode, and so you should not expect mods that facilitate the GEMA mode, to be allowed on servers that report to the masterserver regularly (as in, not using the mod protocol), because those servers are intended to be regular servers.

I keep hearing about mod protocols but there seems to be as much documentation about it as there is for a multidimensional definition of illegal gameplay-affecting server modification (i.e. none).

Edit: Also, we are aware that you two (unschool and phantom) have issues with each other. We (the AC community at large) do not need to see your fights, and the public AC forums are not the place for such things. Please keep it private, thanks :)

Cue an infinite regression of "but he started it!" haha

[Waffles]

Obviously the threshold is removing the capability to do damage, or am I the only one?

Jamz has clearly outlined what to do to fix the problem. Aerke has even provided a good solution.

Deal with it :D

[Unschool]

Obviously the threshold is removing the capability to do damage, or am I the only one?

Jamz has clearly outlined what to do to fix the problem. Aerke has even provided a good solution.

Deal with it :D

I have already followed jamz's instructions and removed the offending mods. I'm carrying on in this thread because I see no reason why we can't have intelligent discussion over this matter. You understand me right? C'mon man I thought we were bros for real bro.

[lucky]

You can't really have an intelligent conversation on a public thread. Most important matters should be discussed via PM.

[Thrawn]

Right now, the one-dimensional explanation of the rule which in practice is quite multidimensional (permitting a wide range of definitely gameplay-affecting modifications)

Afaik, the hitreg fix is the only "mod" that is actually allowed (as far as effecting gameplay mechanics goes), meaning that there's just the one exception (again, afaik). However, clearly defined rules certainly couldn't hurt, and it would help prevent such problems in the future. I'm all for it :)
Although, I suppose as it is now, the rule would be 'No gameplay-effecting mods (other than hitreg fix)'? Which is pretty clear xD

Also, iirc, the mod protocol is as simple as changing '1104' to '-1104' in protocol.cpp , or perhaps it's a different file, I'm not entirely sure

[1Cap]

[quote='Unschool' pid='119636' dateline='1358550147']
Right now, the one-dimensional explanation of the rule which in practice is quite multidimensional (permitting a wide range of definitely gameplay-affecting modifications)

..., I'm not entirely sure

lol. Show yourself unarmed.

Edited - http://forum.cubers.net/thread-6363.html
C'mon

[Bukz]

@1Cap: See this.

Please tell me, how giving everyone access to such scripts is such a bad thing? If you'd rather have the majority of players left in the dark without access to such scripts, and continue to allow a select few to take advantage of you in-game, then be my guest and submit a patch to block these scripts from the next version. They will just mod their clients to give them the functionality, and everyone else will be screwed.

[Thrawn]

...

I'm afraid I don't see the connection to this thread. If I'm missing something, then my apologies, but if I'm not, please start your own thread, instead of derailing others :)

<ontopic>

I keep hearing about mod protocols but there seems to be as much documentation about it as there is for a multidimensional definition of illegal gameplay-affecting server modification (i.e. none).

This should be helpful: http://forum.cubers.net/thread-382-post-...ml#pid5991
I haven't tried compiling AC in a long time (and when I did, I only barely managed to do so), so, I'm not entirely sure if the following is accurate. I think protocol.h is for the client _only_?, and so you'd want to change the protocol version in server.h , to modify the server's protocol number? (so, you'd change the protocol number to negative, thus making it the "mod protocol"). That sounds right, but, again, it's been a long time
Naturally, regular clients will have to /modconnect to your server, but then you can have whatever server mods you want :D
</ontopic>

[jamz]

...

I want to reassure you, Unschool, I did read all your post, but I don't have time to address everything. Sorry.
However, I will say:
1. GEMA is not an officially supported game-mode. This means the official master server is not intended for GEMA players or GEMA servers. This is why modifications which only assist GEMA, eg. !reset, are not allowed.
2. So called "Hitreg fixed" servers do not affect the intended gameplay. Dropped shots are an unintentional bug, which can be countered on an unmodified client by lowering FPS until it's stable.
3. If you want to modify your server from the release, please use common sense when implementing features. Think to yourself, "Does this feature affect the developers' intended gameplay?", ie. killing opponents to win the round/game by scoring more. Try to separate the part of you that wants to 'fight the man' from the part that wants to improve on what you're given. Please.

[Unschool]

3. If you want to modify your server from the release, please use common sense when implementing features. Think to yourself, "Does this feature affect the developers' intended gameplay?", ie. killing opponents to win the round/game by scoring more. Try to separate the part of you that wants to 'fight the man' from the part that wants to improve on what you're given. Please.

No need to project yourself onto other playeres. I am constantly doing my best to fight bad policy. It is just plain irrational to think, "Wow drafting up a thorough criteria for gameplay-affecting server mods would be a lot of work. So instead I am going to attempt to explain it every instance at which I believe the rule has been violated." Why would anyone choose to waste so much effort like that? Just define the threshold in as precise terms as possible, including examples or whatever it takes to clear any confusion, ONCE, then you'll never have to worry about it again. Your introduction of the word "intended" is a good start. I'm sure the rest of the AC community would agree: let's continue developing this criteria. Please.

I am not conniving and searching every nook of the documentation to break the rules. I actually want to follow the rules. It's just that usually it seems the technically talented people don't have as good "people skills," but an online community like this requires both. If it takes what you interpret as "fighting the man" to get you to inch along the path to an actual human-compatible policy, then that's probably the kind of behavior you should expect from server-running players. I know I'm not the only one to have had illegal server mods I thought were legal, or the only one to have initiated this type of discussion. I'm fairly new to AC, so I don't know for sure, but I wager this sort of thing has happened again and again maybe hundreds of times in AC's history. Is this true?

[Edward]

1. GEMA is not an officially supported game-mode. This means the official master server is not intended for GEMA players or GEMA servers. This is why modifications which only assist GEMA, eg. !reset, are not allowed.

Sorry didn't read most of the posts above due to a bad English but I think it is time to include gema in AssaultCube. Maybe something like 'join a server' and then 'join a gema server' would be easier. Many people play gema everyday and enjoy it. They are doing nothing wrong. We cant ignore them any more. I don't know why we couldn't do that. Seems to be a good solution to me.

[#M|A#Wolf]

I'm fairly new to AC, so I don't know for sure, but I wager this sort of thing has happened again and again maybe hundreds of times in AC's history. Is this true?

This isn't the first time a server is removed for modifying gameplay.

[Ronald_Reagan]

Just define the threshold in as precise terms as possible

The problem with using precise terms is that when something slips through the cracks, people tend to think it is ok because nothing was mentioned about that.

I am not conniving and searching every nook of the documentation to break the rules.

Not sure it is hard to find this:

Important: Server modifications

Obviously AssaultCube is an open source game, and the server code is open to modification. You may find that some part of the server code can be improved (please let us know if this is the case), or that it doesn't provide a bit of functionality that you require. You're welcome to compile your own server binary, provided that any changes you make don't affect the gameplay. We want to ensure that all clients connecting to public servers are aware of the game modes, ammo and health settings, game physics, etc., and that there are no surprises. If your server is deemed to have a gameplay-affecting modification, it will be removed from the master server list.

It is in the documentation, if you miss the text in all bold, then you can't say you tried.


Yes, to be fair this bit was added recently (after 1104 release), so it wasn't in the downloaded docs with the game. But really, who reads those when trying to set up a server?