More official maps, or less official maps?

[Z3R0]

I have to disagree with dust2 and italy, but some of those maps xenon mentioned should be considered. I wouldn't be removing ac_keller though, it's a nice map and I've played it often in inters/clan matches, Id say the devs should only be removing maps with horrible bias/lag. ac_wasteland would be a good addition, the official maplist only has a few 1v1 maps iirc.

Also, is the newer version of ac_iceroad available for the public to see?

[SKB]

maps to be added:
wasteland

get rid of:
keller
toxic

I know your going to say, blah blah blah but quality>quantity. Toxic, Keller are great maps but no-one plays them, it's a waste of space in the game, which maps like terros can take it's place.

I've played keller and toxic plenty on pubs in my time zone. Sure they're meh in clan matches, but people do play them. In the next version something has to be done with armour saturation in toxic, though, 2 vests and 3 helmets! Both maps are top 15 (out of 63) in the popularity experiment, by the way. (toxic: 10, keller 15)

Looking at the popularity thing (I'll announce full results later) people seem to dislike snow. How is wasteland better than snow?

Also, the biggest space eaters are models and textures - not maps themselves. I'd rather have decent maps played seldom, than see 'missing media', because I can't be bothered to download a fully packaged map. Once Lucas finishes his map media downloader thing he is "working" on, then I see the point of purging less played maps. Don't forget a lot of new players aren't aware of akimbo.in and, really, 50MB is not that big of amount of data anyway.

Speaking of missing media, I heard missing files cause fps to drop, can anybody confirm this?

@Z3R0: try voting ac_iceroad_rework on oNe servers.

Fun fact: rattrap got 1 vote, aqueous - 6, douze - 7, from 1053 votes in total

[Roflcopter]

I've played keller and toxic plenty on pubs in my time zone. Sure they're meh in clan matches, but people do play them. In the next version something has to be done with armour saturation in toxic, though, 2 vests and 3 helmets! Both maps are top 15 (out of 63) in the popularity experiment, by the way. (toxic: 10, keller 15)

Your popularity experiment must be comparing maps that aren't default which can't be ranked fairly against other maps because they're less well-known.

Looking at the popularity thing (I'll announce full results later) people seem to dislike snow. How is wasteland better than snow?

ac_snow's structure is just horrible. It gives much more options CLA than RVSF. The map generally looks bland and there are glitches. ac_wasteland looks better and as far as I can tell has a nice structure.

[aNytHe0ne]

1. Leave the allowed map/mode combinations for the server administrators to decide.

---> Hopefully less work and trouble for the devs and community gets what it wants.

2. F1 for clan match mastermode

3. Quality > quantity, but if it's hard to decide what to remove, just add some more maps.

[SKB]

Your popularity experiment must be comparing maps that aren't default which can't be ranked fairly against other maps because they're less well-known.

Yeah, it shows two maps completely at random. However, less known maps can't really be very popular can they? So, it's kinda expected. But I get what you're saying, some of the maps get clicked because the thumbnail looks prettier.

[yopa]

Toxic, Keller are great maps but no-one plays them, it's a waste of space in the game, which maps like terros can take it's place.

lies... Keller is one of my best maps in matches, and I actually play it. FD also plays it sometimes. Keller is a nice map, and same with toxic. Toxic is biased, yeah, but what about oupost, gothic, urban? Toxic is actually played...

[Roflcopter]

lies... Keller is one of my best maps in matches, and I actually play it. FD also plays it sometimes. Keller is a nice map, and same with toxic. Toxic is biased, yeah, but what about oupost, gothic, urban? Toxic is actually played...

ac_keller is not often played, it's not a really bad map though, just a bit boring. ac_toxic is far less played than all those maps and far more biased than all but ac_gothic.

[Oracle]

Leave the official maps that exist now. Just add some new ones.
Some of the maps on the ladder servers are nice.
I haven't played in a while, so the only ones that come to mind are venganza and zanka.

[Aight]

The only map I'd like to see removed is rattrap, all other maps deserve to be called official maps. It does no harm to keep some of them like arabian or scaffold which are not played much. Only maps should be removed that lack something in particular or are not accepted by the community.

As for future official maps: I've made a small list of maps that might fit, depending on public and private gameplay. If only one or two of them are going to get official I'd be more than happy.

Poblic Servers only

ac_africa
ac_casa
ac_derb (DM / OSOK)
ac_industrial
ac_parkour (CTF / TOSOK)
ac_riverdry (DM / T.KTF)
ac_village

For Both Private and Public Gameplay

ac_avenue
ac_metl3 (DM)
ac_oasis
ac_terros
ac_venganza
ac_venison
ac_wasteland (DM / HTF / T.OSOK)

[Z-karIuS]

I'll just say that small maps shouldn't be allowed to be played in ctf (douze, gothic and some others).

[Link]

To settle which maps should be taken out, jamzy, how about you some way track what servers are playing what map, and list those results in 1-3 weeks. :D

[Oracle]

I'll just say that small maps shouldn't be allowed to be played in ctf (douze, gothic and some others).

Gothic you say?
Blasphemy.
Meanwhile, on arid... \:D

[Vanquish]

I agree with Aight, just take out rattrap. Nobody plays it in 1v1, nobody plays it in public servers, the only time it gets played in matches is in HTF, where it becomes very biased. Adding to that, it gives me (and many others) large fps drops in areas, it's aesthetically ugly and it isn't even realistic (the road leads nowhere). Maps like toxic and keller are fine, just underplayed - although I'd like to see flag spawns removed from arid and douze.

I've seen three of the four new maps to be added for the next version (correct me if I'm being ignorant and there's more?). ac_avenue looks like a great map, I've played it in both public and private games and it was a lot of fun. I've played ac_edifice in public, for which it seemed fine, but in all honesty I don't actually know how it'd be played in matches. Industrial looks like a decent map, again I don't know how the layout would work in matches but I suppose it could. It looks fine for public games. I haven't seen ac_stellar (I've tried to find the map but to no avail). I agree with the addition of more maps; as people have previously mentioned games like Sauerbraten have many more maps, some (like the map "xenon") are very big and are rarely picked in CMs, but work fine for public games. There could be maps in AC that are added that appeal to public gameplay and wouldn't be suitable for matches, and ones that are suitable for smaller groups of players (such as matches, inters, maybe even 1v1 only maps).

As for what maps to add, I'd definetely recommend Undead's rework of ac_iceroad. Not taking away from the original but in terms of gameplay (we did some inters on it) it's much, much better. ac_wasteland also looks like a good 1v1 map, plus it'd be interesting to play something other than desert or douze for the 1000th time. I'm sure there's plenty of great official maps I haven't even heard of that'd be great too, but those are for the more experienced to call out.

[Oracle]

Unnecessary post is unnecessary.

Shame we don't have any thanks/karma option on these forums.
sadface.jpg

Which version of industrial is the "official" one? I've seen 2 different revised versions, but I forget the difference between them (I think one had a large room, but in the other the room was much smaller).

[Waffles]

I find it difficult to believe that rattrap gets picked apart for biases and toxic does not. Is just nobody else aware of it?

Essentially, it comes down to having a solid Dev construction as Undead was saying. I forget where I suggested this before, but having solid testers to run over gameplay on maps in live settings and a present dev willing to take feedback would help. Or hell, maybe even a custom map CTF tournament (looking at you Larry). Either way, Community input + decisive dev support will weed out the bad from the good. It's not even about popularity. If you build it they will come as they say.

@biggunz,
having no bias is impossible without symmetry you're right, but having certain advantages on one side of a map vs others can even out the playing field. Many maps are winnable from both sides, but that depends on the skill of the player. But to not acknowledge that Toxic, Rattrap, Arabian, Outpost (to some extent), etc. are not one-sided is to disregard fact. I'm not advocating "neutering" all the maps, just making it so both teams have a sporting chance.

[Think3r]

I'd like to see more unique official maps.All of the official maps look alike,for example sauerbraten has that map for the superhero that looks so different from the others. I would vote yes for more maps but it has to look different.

[Ronald_Reagan]

get rid of:
snow
aqueous
rattrap
keller
toxic

I'm kinda surprised people are up for removing maps besides Douze. Douze make sense to remove, its theme doesn't fit AC's, its gameplay doesn't fit, and it is overplayed. Rattrap on the other hand? It almost never gets played. To get rid of this number of maps is just stupid. I've had many fun matches on all of those maps except for rattrap. And I have had some fun FFA on rattrap. Maps take up almost no space in the packaging except for the now official "custom" content. And I don't want to be the one checking the textures and mapmodels to make sure they are only used in rattrap.

[Roflcopter]

To be honest I don't consider ac_snow, ac_aqueous, or ac_rattrap close to the quality I expect from default maps. Bad maps reflect badly on the game. I mean there's a reason commercial quality games would rather ship a few quality maps than ship their sloppy maps too.

[Ronald_Reagan]

I mean there's a reason commercial quality games would rather ship a few quality maps than ship their sloppy maps too.

Two reasons why you don't see "sloppy" maps in commercial games:
1) They pay their map designers
2) There isn't much option to play or make community designed maps

[Link]

Add dust2 also. I don't see it very 1 sided.

[Ronald_Reagan]

Add dust2 also. I don't see it very 1 sided.

Dust2 is never getting added, as it isn't an original cube map.

[Link]

Add dust2 also. I don't see it very 1 sided.

Dust2 is never getting added, as it isn't an original cube map.

But what's wrong with it being community made?

[Oracle]

Add dust2 also. I don't see it very 1 sided.

Dust2 is never getting added, as it isn't an original cube map.

But what's wrong with it being community made?

Nothing. As RR blatantly pointed out, it "isn't an original cube map."

[Z3R0]

Nothing. As RR blatantly pointed out, it "isn't an original cube map."

I don't think he understood the statement in the first place. By being an original cube map, he means maps that were designed for and created on the cube engine. Dust2 isn't and original cube map as it was first made in another game (counterstrike?).

[Orynge]

Remove rattrap and douze.
Add Halo's rework of douze (looks cooler and has no flags).

I haven't looked at the iceroad rework yet.
I think the rest of the maps are pretty good, and ones getting suggested are good as well.

[Waffles]

Douze is fine 1v1, rarely anything else. As far as fitting with AC's theme, I'm not even sure what the hell that is. It's a map that is made well and is quite playable. For LMS it's even kinda a gauntlet right of passage for 1v1. Rattrap on the other hand while looking fine, is pretty much unbearable to play in any mode or with any number of people.

EDIT: except yourself fapping in a corner

[Xenon]

ok, maps that need to go 100%
rattrap
arid flag spawns
douze flag spawns

Also, not even concidering something like Dust2 just shows how disgusting some people are. Hell, it's better then 50% of the maps in the release now but because it isn't an 'original' cube map it won't be considered. What about maps like douze, they're not original cube maps. It's pretty interesting considering your partner, sauerbraten has dust2 aswell?

+1 to custom CTF tournament with the maps:
venganza
avenue
cavern
ore
new iceroad
industrial.

Theirs 6 maps that can be played over 6 weeks, which is great for people to get used to solid maps aswell as make an opinion on them.

[V-Man]

Douze is fine 1v1, rarely anything else. As far as fitting with AC's theme, I'm not even sure what the hell that is.

Makes sense to me.

[failure]

@Waffles: Not fitting the theme of AC, to me, means that it's not really a map; it's an arena. It also suffers from horrible spawns. I pretty much refuse to play it; maybe once a month or so. If I'm super bored and there aren't any other games going.

[Alien]

naaah, it is not about quality but about creativity,

for example ac_desert with his textures should be only one, remove desert2 and desert3 and so on, the same for complex maps, maps should be various and recognizable for first spawn

This game started with 4 various maps.