Upcoming Release Balance Discussion (SVN)

[RealViking]

Yes, I simplified it. I could write you a short novel if that's what you'd like. I'm sure you understand exactly what I mean. B and DES couldn't be more obvious Elite. I'd even count dyH as Elite even if that could be taking it a bit too far. The mid-skilled, half-unknown players didn't get mentioned in my post. If you could ignore this and get the general message instead...

[jAcKRoCk*]

You can't compare a OpenSource game like AC with a Media monster like CoD one our dev team doesn't get 6 figure salaries for improving the game, ours don't even get a thank you most of the time. You won't see anyone leaving CoD because even if they do there's always millions more playing that game.

The thing with AC and that maybe you didn't understand is that we as a community have been in a struggle to balance te weapons since 1.1 came out, the weapons aren't the same from .93 to 1.0 to 1.1 we all lose something in the change. Those who can adapt stay and those who can't leave.

Weapons need to be nerfed or buffed to satisfy and to adapt the gameplay not the players.

[Oracle]

Maybe he should go leave this game and play his beloved CoD.
Better off for all of us \:D
jk

[VenteX]

The AC community is split into three sub-communities; The gema community, the "twin-and-megatowers-@camper-tosok-douze" (let's call them "the noobs") community and the "Elite-we-play-cm-and-inters-all-days-long" community.

You're neglecting to mention everyone who just plays the game normally. That is, the kind of people who hang around on pubs playing normal (mostly non-douze/desert official and/or well-constructed community) maps, playing just about whatever game mode pops up. These people don't care about which weapon does what better but instead strategize their way around these "unfairnesses" (for example, by keeping distance from and picking off shotgunners with a sniper rifle like common sense might suggest) and, most importantly, do this thing called shutting up and just playing the damn game.

But hell, if I, along with my friends, fall under 0% of what you listed and thus aren't even considered to be part of the discussion, that's fine by me. Have fun with your flames.

[Oracle]

You're neglecting to mention everyone who just plays the game normally...

Yeah VenteX I think you and I had the same idea, but you worded it better ;)

[tempest]

+1 from me as well.

[Zarjio]

The point here is that the 99% of players never bother to make their voices heard. Its not a lot of work to register on the forums, but they don't bother. They usually quit playing the game after 4 days, as well.
We are the 1%. We have played AC for years and years. We actually care about the gameplay, actually took the time to give input to the devs, and will continue playing it for a long time.

[RealViking]

The problem is that too many of you are giving inputs to our dear devs which must make them very confused since they still haven't managed to balance the weapons after all this time (they're more than fine right now but there's always someone who's got something to complain about). Leave the weapons as they are, too many details will make things worse. One cook makes a good soup, ten cooks makes a terrible soup (sounds better in Swedish I guess). Small advice (which I took the time to write) from an experienced gamer (sorry for braggin), take it or leave it, that's all I've got to say.

[Ronald_Reagan]

Actually, that isn't the reason why no balance has been really done. The reason being that the dev who was going to balance it all went MIA. Along with the other one who was going to work on it as well. Afaik, the balance is not getting done because no one has the task of doing it currently.

[macm]

The real issue about gameplay/weapon balance is hit registration, doesn't matter how much balance they do if i have to empty a magazine to kill someone.

Ohh god, macm is talking about the hitreg AGAIN...

If most players who think they're not good enough (to play competively) tested themselves/accuracy/hit-reg we would have much more complaints, ofcourse some guys just have the perfect computer/OS/and_god_knows_what and never had a problem so this is just lack of skill. No! i had a perfect hitreg once, and i made use of it, i played a lot of inters and cms. It was so easy, just aim and shoot.
This is not just server side shot drops like they say, i believe the problem is client sided, i have this problem playing the bots! And it's even worse in multiplayer.
I notice this bug since i first tested my damage script, the script gathers information from the server (using pstat_weap) and tells how much bullets were shot and how much damage was made, binding that to MOUSE1, i can tell how much shots i missed (hitsound also helps) with my crosshair on the enemy, instead of the 5 shots (with AR) i need 7 or 9 or 15 according to the distance, i cant kill someone across douze, am i that bad? And sniper+pistol combo, pistol feels like a russian roulette, 1 in 8 bullets hit!
I made some tests and i believe the best fps for my computer is 125, idk why, its the number that gives me the best registration, but still it's not good enough.
I used to play almost everyday until i noticed this bug, it's so f***cking frustrating to have to manage to keep a positive ratio in pubs, when i used to get 3, 5 or 10.
I tried everything to get my perfect hitreg, i formated my computer, i got the latest drivers, i downloaded the latest software (directx, java...), removed my hardware firewall, deleted background processes, dropped my graphics settings, dropped ac graphics/sounds/settings/everything to the worst, i downloaded all the games i previously had hoping that one of them would update something to optimise ac gameplay, nothing worked. Then i started believing it was some command i messed with and tested almost every visual/general command in the docs...
So i made use of google, and searched for an alternative from other games, after so much testing/failure, i found this post.
If you read that article, it says that the games need an fps/packet information to be consistent. This is not quake of cod2, but i believe the problem that they are talking about is the same i found in ac (not counting with the gravity thing).

We can't access the max packets with cubescript, so i wanted to know what is the amount of maximum packets that ac sends or receives, so i can calculate how much fps i need to optimise my hitreg.

TL;DR
Who cares, i'm just a random noob that complains about the "shooting" in a "FPS" (first person "SHOOTER")

[Oracle]

Something about Swedish proverbs

I wouldn't say the complaints cause the confusion. So what if somebody complains? Big whoop, some people "complain," others enjoy. However, some people (like some of the above posters) take the time to make suggestions to the gameplay, and your little "dear devs" were the ones who chose to take action to follow up on these suggestions. Hence AC has had more than 1 version.
So in reality, quit blaming it on your banally-labeled "Elite."
The devs may listen to the consumers' suggestions, but it's not like our "complaints" are getting in the way of their success.
Plus, as RR mentioned, they have lives too. \:D

(Lol macm and his double posting tl;dr's)

[Zarjio]

The problem is that too many of you are giving inputs to our dear devs which must make them very confused

The devs aren't stupid. They can sort out what they want. And more opinions are usually better than fewer. Ultimately, it is up to them to decide, and it's better to have 1000 people offer advice on how the weapons should be balanced than 1.

[tempest]

Afaik, the balance is getting done because no one has the task of doing it currently.

That sums up the situation quite accurately.

[Roflcopter]

I'd happily fix the whole game.

I think we really need far more input from the developers though. So many ideas, some crazy some good, and few of them get any developer response at all.

Balance is no harder than looking at how well top players can use a weapon and modifying accordingly, and then changing the handling (which affects noobs far more) to balance for casual players. Some things require "brave changes", such as spread reduction and perhaps reworking snipers, but if it isn't done the game will be left crippled.

The way things are stagnating, I almost wish someone would fork the game.

[paulmuaddibKA]

@macm, thanks for sharing!
I find this "technological things" way too out of my reach, but if you do find your answer itd be lovely to see how it worked!

[billyumreal]

Is there a way to test our crazy ideas before throwing them to you dev team???

I say, I think AR Spread could be better to be less, SG to be more powerful at short ranges (Examples), but, is there a way to test it before saying to you and making you guys loose your time?

I have many ideas, but keep saying to you wont make the game better, or even change the mind of others, if I could test them, you would get the result, instead of the storm to get there...

AC is the better free fps ever!

[tempest]

Well, you can get the SVN source and play around with it, provided you have at least minimal knowledge of C++ and you're able to hit the green arrow in Visual Studio (:P).

IIRC there's also a special client build for testing the shotgun values simply by modifying some CubeScript vars. (don't have a link right now, but I'm sure someone does.

Or you can indeed just tell us what you want ;)

[Aekom]

This is the shotgun client tempest mentioned (details in the pastebin):

http://pastebin.com/fuabcBB6

[billyumreal]

Well, you can get the SVN source and play around with it, provided you have at least minimal knowledge of C++ and you're able to hit the green arrow in Visual Studio (:P).

IIRC there's also a special client build for testing the shotgun values simply by modifying some CubeScript vars. (don't have a link right now, but I'm sure someone does.

Or you can indeed just tell us what you want ;)

Thank you,

Sorry about the sloppy english... trying to improve it... (Brazillians... you know, too much samba, too much AC...)

I didnt wanted to say all of the ideas, but you asked for it:

I am a FPS player since 8, if you read my age, you'll see that I play FPS games about 19 years (FEW ADDICTED... I KNOW)

I think AC is one of the more balanced games i know, and one of the funnest too. I just think players should change their mind whe changing their guns.

Shotguns are trap weapons, not mid-field ones, to be used in corridors, corners or doors. But I think 2 good shots from close should kill almost anyone, but not aways happen.

Subs are attacker's guns, i think they should recoil less (kind of -3), to not interrupt advancement (too much)

ARs should spread a few less, to hit more from a distance of 20 cubes.

Snipers should have an option for the pistol combo.

I've seen the "Cpistol" when editing and trying to compile AC... it didnt worked, still trying to compile (Code::Blocks - does it works?) And I think the Cpistol should be a... Pistol! Kind of having 2 or 3 options of pistol, dont know.

Maybe if we had a Magnum pistol that damage much more, maybe slower than the normal pistol, we could have a simpler Sniper+Pistol combo, for those who want this combo, would have it for a "slow" cost...

Ok, back to the deving class... Thanks for the time and the answers.

[Felix-The-Ghost]

I've seen the "Cpistol" when editing and trying to compile AC... it didnt worked, still trying to compile (Code::Blocks - does it works?)

Whoever did the Code Blocks project file didn't configure the custom makefile right. this might help, though I just use the command line myself.

[SELECT ALL] Code:

cd path/src/
mingw

:D

edit: switching back and forth from HTML to BBcode confuzzles me :x

[Lantry]

We can't access the max packets with cubescript, so i wanted to know what is the amount of maximum packets that ac sends or receives, so i can calculate how much fps i need to optimise my hitreg.

I don't know the answer to your question, but it might be related to the throttle_X commands. I remember seeing an explanation of what those do, but I don't remember what it was.
Also might be worth looking at: /networkdebug. Unfortunately, I don't know what to change in the code to compile in "debug mode".

[tempest]

I've seen the "Cpistol" when editing and trying to compile AC... it didnt worked, still trying to compile (Code::Blocks - does it works?)

Whoever did the Code Blocks project file didn't configure the custom makefile right.

Should be fixed now.

[billyumreal]

Where do I get the makefile (for Code::Blocks) for AC ?

And one more question...

On the earlier version of the Source files, I used to find the weapon statistics in the weapon.h file... where this weapon statistics gone???

I've searched almost all of the files in the ac source 1.1.0.4 and did not find anything. Can somebody help???:huh:

[Felix-The-Ghost]

I've seen the "Cpistol" when editing and trying to compile AC... it didnt worked, still trying to compile (Code::Blocks - does it works?)

Whoever did the Code Blocks project file didn't configure the custom makefile right.

Should be fixed now.

V -> 6 -> 2

On the earlier version of the Source files, I used to find the weapon statistics in the weapon.h file... where this weapon statistics gone???

I've searched almost all of the files in the ac source 1.1.0.4 and did not find anything. Can somebody help???:huh:

Look in the server files :)

[Edward]

I have no idea if I am posting in the right forum but I just wanted to say something about AR and smg.

I have installed the SVN and I have played some games and my first reaction was WTF are they doing !!! The AR got only 15 bullets and 45 mag? Ok you probably do not give a shit about gemas players. But well, I suppose that if the AR was decreased the smg has been decreased too. BUT NO!!!!!!! 15 bullets for AR and 30 for smg. 45 mag for AR and 90 for smg. Best troll ever. It is not a little more, no no, it is the DOUBLE. You can reload your AR but the guy with an smg will still shoot because he got the fucking DOUBLE of amo. Maybe I am just a dumbass but I think it is BULLSHITS !!

Maybe some "old players" from the 0.93 want an AssaultCube with only two weapons playable (smg/sniper) but the silent majority do not want. Pubs are the silent majority and the silent majority play shotgun and AR. Without them you/we are nothing. I like playing pubs. I like playing cm and inter. Maybe I overeat but I feel betrayed.

I am playing smg and I have no problem with AR's players. I sometimes rage against the shotgun but I do not think shotgun or AR are overpowered.

PS : the sniper is great now but the bot in lss are bugged. And I can not understand how many HP got the bots in singleplayer

[Nightmare]

- Some players want the SMG down to 20/60 to keep pace with the AR.
- 'Pro' clans don't care because the AR's rocket hax gives them flags and that hasn't been touched yet.

We'll see what happens. :)
If Leader jamz gives the balance job to a dev or two, we'll see what happens quicker. ;o

[Edward]

I agree with the first point to balance ar and smg but it is not the main problem.
I do not understand your second point. Who are pro clans? Are you their spokesperson?
I have played against many clans in my timezone and only one is crying because of AR (the same who want the crappy 1.0 version back with only two weapons).

As many many many others, I started with 1.1.0.4. I will not leave (because I am playing smg so it is ok for me) but as I said before, gemas and pubs could suffer from it

[MerCyKiL]

this sniper and one shot pistol thing should make the next version interesting :D

[Cemer]

16 for AR, and 24 for SMG.

[MorganKell]

I absolutely refuse to read through 34 friggin pages of thread so someone bring me up to speed. AR still has rifle jump right? And smg still recoils like a bitch in heat? And shotty has or hasn't gotten it's hitting power back? I'm just going to assume the grenades still suck major nuts and are still only 1 per pickup? (accept LSS yes we know)