Should this flag count?

[Roflcopter]

Do you think this flag should count?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxjmQZobl0o

Posted on behalf of Xenon. The match was dR vs aG.

[jamz]

Yes. We are all aware that lag can strike at any moment, be it from a client or the server, and accept that this is something that can and will affect any game at any moment, be it a meaningless pub, or a furious, no-holds-barred, winner-takes-all contest. In someone's AC 'career', they should, on average, be helped as often as they are hindered.

Unless the implication is that Ciclon did this deliberately? If he makes a habit of it, don't play with him.

[Roflcopter]

I don't think that it does help as much as hinder though. I have heard Ciclon is not paying with his normal connection and now lags more. I'm sure he's not doing it purposefully, but people have claimed he is playing better with this more laggy connection.

In games I notice that certain players do better with lag. If things are really symmetrical between players then it must simply be that some people are able to cope with lag less. But yet sometimes I am sure that I aim perfectly, or better yet watch a teammate shooting at an enemy very precisely, and yet few bullets hit. However there are players who this never happens to; that is every encounter with them you are significantly damaged. If they had the same bug as you they would at least sometimes die without significantly damaging you.

In this case, it shows very slight teleportation. I have also seen players take the flag, begin to lag out, and only stop lagging as they score it. It's of course very abusive since it allows a player to return to their base without even being challenged (since they are lagging they cannot take damage) -- there is absolutely nothing that can stop them!

[Lantry]

So what do you propose be done about it? Yes, it can be frustrating, but is there a way to fix it/make it more fair?

[Roflcopter]

SVN already has a bullet registration fix that may solve it completely.

Players moving or performing other actions while lagged out needs to be stopped I think. That is, the clients should be changed so that they can only walk or fire if they have both sent and received information in the last 0.5 seconds. To my knowledge, not even Australians on UK servers would be affected generally by this since most have fairly stable PJ and pings less than 400.

[V-Man]

Godsmack empties his SMG clip on a ghost in the ACWC 2010. (don't worry, we ended up winning that match.)

I agree that people who are lagging shouldn't be able to get themselves into an advantageous position or shoot. If your connection is bad enough to lag that often, you ought to get a better connection, not score flags and get frags.

[DES|Anderson]

F1 from me, nothing more frustrating than firing at ghosts only to be taken out by the same player who now appears behind you!

[cOGhost]

Vs ausies?

[V-Man]

That match was vs. North Africa.

[cOGhost]

The guy that did this should be invited in to hoghwards!

[Xenon]

Well, Ghost! Our pings are high but what about our PJ's? PJ's mean more and I for one have a stable PJ.

[#M|A#Wolf]

It does count, but hitreg should be completely disabled for anyone with LAG in their pj.

[castiel]

Vs ausies?

You're an idiot. We trashed you 31-0 while you just bitched about ping when we had stable PJ and ping was steady.

There is a difference between lagging and simply having a high ping but it seems you are not intelligent enough to understand that as you live next to the servers.

On topic:

Can the server detect when the person is lagging? i.e if it receives no packets for X amount of time?

If so it should simply:
- Store the players last known position before the lag
- Wait until the player is steadily sending packets again
- Restore the players position before they were lagging

It might cause a bit of jumpiness on the laggers side, but they should not be able to simply lag in and out of the oppositions base.

Also it would be really nice if we differentiated between high ping and lagging. 99% of european idiots believe having ping > 100 is lagging because we do not live next to their servers, even though you can still maintain a steady PJ and play fairly.

[Roflcopter]

Can the server detect when the person is lagging? i.e if it receives no packets for X amount of time?

If so it should simply:
- Store the players last known position before the lag
- Wait until the player is steadily sending packets again
- Restore the players position before they were lagging

It might cause a bit of jumpiness on the laggers side, but they should not be able to simply lag in and out of the oppositions base.

Also it would be really nice if we differentiated between high ping and lagging. 99% of european idiots believe having ping > 100 is lagging because we do not live next to their servers, even though you can still maintain a steady PJ and play fairly.

I don't think the server has to have knowledge of when a player is lagging to stop players when they are. It can simply be fixed client side by disallowing players that haven't communicated with the server in 0.5 seconds firing or walking.

High ping players are lagging just by definition (their high ping literally means they are lagging behind the current state of the game). But all these terms are used roughly. High ping players are also not entirely fair because they enable tactics like keeping them on defense where they tend to be more successful (that is, because they are high ping both players will tend to take more damage in an encounter so there is a higher chance their opponent will be killed even if they die too).

In fact, for that reason alone it's possible to get a slight 1-2 bullet advantage when you need it most. And there is no fix for it that would otherwise give high-pinged players an even footing. If the game were to disallow dead players from registering further damage laggers would suddenly perform very poorly, the alternative is that a well-coordinated team can take more benefits than weaknesses from lag.

Just to clarify there are four main decisions that can be changed:

• Hit registration fixes -- already in SVN
  
• Disabling further movement when lagged out -- most people seem to think it's a good idea and I can't see any real negatives
  
• Disabling ghost mode; instead just allow players to kill players that are lagging out -- again I don't see why the game should promise anything to players that are lagging out
  
• Disallowing dead players from shooting -- would likely be too unfair on high-ping players
  

[Orynge]

I don't get it why "no" is winning. Lag is a part of any multiplayer game.

[OpenSource]

@ castiel

Calling a whole continent idiots want make you a better person in any way.
Calling a whole continent that can be seen as a racist comment and that no one wanna read on this forum.

So, can you think the next time you try to make a point and stop with this shitty behavior.

[castiel]

Can the server detect when the person is lagging? i.e if it receives no packets for X amount of time?

If so it should simply:
- Store the players last known position before the lag
- Wait until the player is steadily sending packets again
- Restore the players position before they were lagging

It might cause a bit of jumpiness on the laggers side, but they should not be able to simply lag in and out of the oppositions base.

Also it would be really nice if we differentiated between high ping and lagging. 99% of european idiots believe having ping > 100 is lagging because we do not live next to their servers, even though you can still maintain a steady PJ and play fairly.

I don't think the server has to have knowledge of when a player is lagging to stop players when they are. It can simply be fixed client side by disallowing players that haven't communicated with the server in 0.5 seconds firing or walking.

High ping players are lagging just by definition (their high ping literally means they are lagging behind the current state of the game). But all these terms are used roughly. High ping players are also not entirely fair because they enable tactics like keeping them on defense where they tend to be more successful (that is, because they are high ping both players will tend to take more damage in an encounter so there is a higher chance their opponent will be killed even if they die too).

In fact, for that reason alone it's possible to get a slight 1-2 bullet advantage when you need it most. And there is no fix for it that would otherwise give high-pinged players an even footing. If the game were to disallow dead players from registering further damage laggers would suddenly perform very poorly, the alternative is that a well-coordinated team can take more benefits than weaknesses from lag.

Just to clarify there are four main decisions that can be changed:

• Hit registration fixes -- already in SVN
  
• Disabling further movement when lagged out -- most people seem to think it's a good idea and I can't see any real negatives
  
• Disabling ghost mode; instead just allow players to kill players that are lagging out -- again I don't see why the game should promise anything to players that are lagging out
  
• Disallowing dead players from shooting -- would likely be too unfair on high-ping players
  

How can a server stop players where they are if it cannot communicate with them?

If dead players were not able to register damage then the whole game would revolve around lowest ping = best player. If we had servers everywhere around every country this would make sense, but when it is a worldwide game it would ruin majority of the players who don't live next to a server.

@ castiel

Calling a whole continent idiots want make you a better person in any way.
Calling a whole continent that can be seen as a racist comment and that no one wanna read on this forum.

So, can you think the next time you try to make a point and stop with this shitty behavior.

I never said I'm a better person than anybody else?

1) Europe is not a race? And if you are willing to define it as such then I am also from Europe so am being racist towards myself
2) Majority of complainers are from Europe, disagree if you will but everybody knows it's true
3) It's ok for everybody to go around saying "Aussies are shi**y laggers!" but not for me to say that Europeans are annoying for their narrow minded perception?

I am not disagreeing that lag can change a game BUT it happens and can happen to anybody regardless of where they live and it's just a part of the game...

[CicloN]

This is funny because not my fault if i lag. It's not my computer , it's not my internet , it's not my house , etc. I warn everybody before the game i might lag but they still not listening.People who never lagged and are complete geeks are always whining about lag , but LAG is worse for the person that PLAYS WITH IT.
Stop racist insults.. This won't get anywhere. I agree with Jamz , just don't play with me until the 10th September.
Larry you should get a life , because everytime you lose , you whine.Everybody knows you , so i dont know why you come here whining about lag in a free game.

[SiL3nT]

I call European people shitty laggers too, chill.

[Roflcopter]

This is funny because not my fault if i lag. It's not my computer , it's not my internet , it's not my house , etc. I warn everybody before the game i might lag but they still not listening.People who never lagged and are complete geeks are always whining about lag , but LAG is worse for the person that PLAYS WITH IT.
Stop racist insults.. This won't get anywhere. I agree with Jamz , just don't play with me until the 10th September.
Larry you should get a life , because everytime you lose , you whine.Everybody knows you , so i dont know why you come here whining about lag in a free game.

I'm not the one complaining in this instance. But Xenon wasn't the first person I've heard complain about your lag by the way. And the match that I lost is not only irrelevant but was surprisingly close considering I was drunk, hadn't played properly in several weeks and we were not a real team. That said please don't make ad hominem attacks and focus instead on why my arguments are wrong (if they are).

[CicloN]

You are just trying to open a flamewar in here. If you (Xenon) had some problem with the lag , first talk in private. Its not starting insulting InGame.
I just dont care if people to like my lag. Look just ask for people ban me in their servers like they did to Big|BME|Baddy .
EDIT : Just drop it , it was only a game. If it was a league or something important you could have post a thread here, but since its nothing important , just don't. .aG* if you guys want , we just give you the win lol.

[Cemer]

Flame war?

BRING IN THE HOSE

[Luc@s]

Thread closed.

@ Roflcopter : lag will always exist. Accept this fact and deal with it or just refuse to play with laggers.
@ Castiel : Saying that europeans are "idiots", or "annoying for their narrow minded perception" isn't fine, and it's one of the reasons this thread is now closed.