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I don't have nothing to lose so I decide to write what i think ..
For sure , who don't know me I'm Mati ex-cheater from *aXe*Team.
I used cheat client on old version(1.04) more than one year ago (ofc i didn't run like idiot with aimbot or speedhack on public server and spoil fun but I had only cheat client .. but is not important i don't come here to explain it)
Yesterday I calculete servers where i'm blacklisted , and i'm banned on 53 servers .. .On older version (1.04)
where i used cheat client (it was more than 1 year ago) i was banned only on 3-5 servers ..
On this version is the same. Currently cheaters can play everywhere only ex-cheaters from 1.04 or older ..are banned.
In my opinion is it nonsense . Here i have question for developers and owners server is it normal situation for you ?
I think so everybody should get second chance ..
Like vlad said :
"We want to mark, what not all approve a recruting ex-cheaters, but thereby we want to show that if people, who didnt cheat
and always play fair, ready to take those players and believe them after year from ban, its normal to give second chance."
Why have we this situation now ?
Because of Blacklist Tyd and all other owners servers which copied this blacklist like blind chickens..
I know lots of players agree with me that Blacklist tyd ruin AssaultCube..
I have request for other owners servers don't copy tyd blacklist because is unfair there are only ex-cheaters which are inactive or now playing really fair of course are exceptions..
Every day i see cheaters on public servers but i don't see their on blacklist . For exemple waag* from uRs clan which played clan game vs Mys with aimbot ... now he can play everywhere...
What can we see on tyd blackilist last entries ? that Dextram avoid ban .. it's funny ..
Why in title I wrote Developers ?
Because i think if you all the time working on this game, you lost lots of time etc.
And now some guys ruin your game because of stupid blacklist ..
You should react ... and is not only my opinion ..
(and don't say me i ruined this game more when i used cheat client .. because is not true .. i used cheats only on my closed private server for test ...
Yes i had cheat client on public server but it doesn't mean that i used it.. and nobody have proof that i used)
Sorry for my English but I'm from Poland . / MATI
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17 Jun 11, 01:22PM
(This post was last modified: 17 Jun 11, 01:50PM by Freddo.)
Lol, we don't blindly copy TyD's blacklist its the servers owners own choice to use TyD's blacklist.
Quote:=============================================================================
PRO-ACTIVE BANS
http:blacklist.tearyoudown.com
=============================================================================
=============================================================================
TERMS OF SERVICE
This blacklist is a contribution of the clan Tear you Down! (hereafter: TyD)
to potential server hoster (hereafter: user).
This blacklist is provided on "as is" and "as available" for your use without
warranties of any kind, either expressed or implied. Use of this blacklist
is at your sole risk. There is not warrant that the blacklist is error-free
and will work with any assault cube release. Cause the nature of dynamic IP
address distribution there is also no warrant that the ip addresses/ranges
won't affect players to a particular time who haven't done any of the
actions/offenses which caused the blacklist entry.
With downloading and installing this blacklist on the user's server this
blacklist the user agrees that the blacklist has been created in the light
of Tear you Down!'s server policy as amended from time to time. With
installing the blackist on the user's server the blacklist becomes his
property and part of his responsibilities as server host. Tear you Down!
is not responsible for any bans caused by a blacklist on servers which
aren't hosted and maintained by Tear you Down!
=============================================================================
People are trying very hard to blacklist the cheaters because the cheaters ruin the game. Not everyone is caught right away but they will be.
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Oh good. I don’t think you’re on all the server blacklists yet. Give me a few days and I’ll see what I can do for you scumbag.
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17 Jun 11, 01:48PM
(This post was last modified: 17 Jun 11, 01:48PM by Mati.)
HAHA Already I'm .... it's a reason why i wrote "I don't have nothing to lose.. ." unfortunately for you ...
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(17 Jun 11, 01:00PM)Mati Wrote: I have request for other owners servers don't copy tyd blacklist because is unfair
Even if it is unfair, copying a blacklist is much easier than making your own, which is why most people will go for the former. IMO, TyD has been rather heavy handed with their BL, but for the most part the BL is a benefit, as it provides a somewhat centralized BL for some uniformity throughout the game. Unfortunately, this uniformity is exactly what you are complaining about. I agree that TyD should implement some sort of year and a day rule regarding most offenses, but I don't know how they run things currently so I can't really comment.
As for ban avoidance, if you feel there is somebody who should be blacklisted, feel free to offer up all evidence in the blacklist report thread.
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you parse game to states and define only valid states. The state consists of public parameters and local parameters. You must create relations among parameters which will be used for checking legality of state. Transition between 2 states can also be defined and checked.
Next important is to collect inputs and outputs. The game is in this situation as blackbox. This is about mapping two inputs onto two outputs and how to detect additional signal.
It was descriptive solution, you prepared possible structure with mappings. Next is behaviroal, you create some representation of environment (function) and send additional informations among clients.
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From the moment that you used a cheat client, you knew that the consequences of getting caught were beyhond your control.
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(17 Jun 11, 01:00PM)Mati Wrote: Yesterday I calculete servers where i'm blacklisted , and i'm banned on 53 servers .. .On older version (1.04)
where i used cheat client (it was more than 1 year ago) i was banned only on 3-5 servers ..
Many server owners recompile their blacklists after a new release. With 1.1 there is no exception.
(17 Jun 11, 01:00PM)Mati Wrote: On this version is the same. Currently cheaters can play everywhere only ex-cheaters from 1.04 or older ..are banned.
Lies^
(17 Jun 11, 01:00PM)Mati Wrote: Why have we this situation now ?
Because of Blacklist Tyd and all other owners servers which copied this blacklist like blind chickens..
Last time I checked, chickens, especially blind ones, don't use computers ;)
As previously stated, the TyD blacklist clearly states that it has no responsibility for your use of the BL.
(17 Jun 11, 01:00PM)Mati Wrote: (and don't say me i ruined this game more when i used cheat client .. because is not true .. i used cheats only on my closed private server for test ...
By installing a cheat client you are RUINING the game. If you had no intention of cheating, why do you need to "test" cheats...
Does that make any sense?
(17 Jun 11, 01:00PM)Mati Wrote: Yes i had cheat client on public server but it doesn't mean that i used it.. and nobody have proof that i used)
Prove you didn't.
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Mati, you're NOT CHEATER on my server, and I didnt see single repeat-cheater since this uA Utah that is from old version
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(17 Jun 11, 05:07PM)titiPT Wrote: From the moment that you used a cheat client, you knew that the consequences of getting caught were beyhond your control.
Now i know it but now is too late ... What can i say ? I was stupid ...
Quote:Mati Wrote:
On this version is the same. Currently cheaters can play everywhere only ex-cheaters from 1.04 or older ..are banned.
Lies^
Unfortunately nope is it true ... may is some exceptions..
Quote:Last time I checked, chickens, especially blind ones, don't use computers ;)
It was metaphor..
Quote:By installing a cheat client you are RUINING the game. If you had no intention of cheating, why do you need to "test" cheats...
Does that make any sense?
When i started my career in ac i was totally noob .. When I played vs =Mys= or LC I couldn't frag their .. of course i thought they using cheats ...So i wanted try too .. Now i know is it possible to play like mys without cheats ...Like I wrote above now is too late ..
Quote:Mati Wrote:
Yes i had cheat client on public server but it doesn't mean that i used it.. and nobody have proof that i used)
Prove you didn't.
You can ask the same question to everybody .....
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(17 Jun 11, 01:39PM)tipper|DES| Wrote: Oh good. I don’t think you’re on all the server blacklists yet. Give me a few days and I’ll see what I can do for you scumbag.
Harsh much? He used a cheat client so therefore he is a bad person?
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I use the black list of {TyD} with pride and also adds all the cheaters and hackers that I see in the game, and all those reported in AC forum:)
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@Hellspell
So tell me son do you think cheating is okay?
Good people cheat (?)
Maybe he just accidentally downloaded a hacked client.
Cheats have been the scourge of this game since its initial release and you want me to be nice to them (?)
Maybe you think it really doesn’t matter if they cheat; it’s only a game after all……………
The point is these people may be in your clan or your mates and all the time they cheat they spit on you and all the effort you may have put into learning how to play.
Oh sure, it would be nice if we all forgave everyone for everything wouldn’t it (?)
Lets hope if you grow up you make lots of money and when someone cheats you out of your hard earned cash and you’re screaming for their blood perhaps I could remind you that you may be being a bit harsh ;)
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I'm not saying cheating is ok and should go unpunished, however I am saying is there are good people that have used cheats.
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zero tolerance for cheaters Hellspell not you understand?
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Good girl gone bad... (?)
Cheat, get banned, pay the price.
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Have some perspective tipper. There's no money here. Cheating in a game doesn't make you a bad person.
I have written(And continue to write) and used cheats of some form or another for about a dozen online games, mostly simple flash or java games. If that were an accurate litmus I'd likely be the worst person on this board. But it isn't. The only relationship between myself and the games I've cheated in is that I only cheated in games I didn't respect.
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17 Jun 11, 09:12PM
(This post was last modified: 17 Jun 11, 09:13PM by Apollo{TyD}.)
(17 Jun 11, 01:00PM)Mati Wrote: I know lots of players agree with me that Blacklist tyd ruin AssaultCube..
So, we (TyD!) are ruining the game cause we (and others ) have blacklisted you cause you have cheated us with using a bad client? Funny
Therefore you should better change that:
(17 Jun 11, 01:00PM)Mati Wrote: Because i think if you all the time working on this game, you lost lots of time etc.
And now some guys ruin your game because of stupid blacklist ..
into
(17 Jun 11, 01:00PM)Mati Wrote: Because i think if you all the time working on this game, you lost lots of time etc.
And now some guys ruin your game because of stupid blacklist cheating ..
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Oh , I’m sorry. Is my black and white perspective on cheating causing some discomfort? :-p
Mael wrote.
“I have written(And continue to write) and used cheats of some form or another for about a dozen online games, mostly simple flash or java games. If that were an accurate litmus I'd likely be the worst person on this board. But it isn't. The only relationship between myself and the games I've cheated in is that I only cheated in games I didn't respect.”
Yeah we know Mael ;) We've known for sometime now.
What has money got to do with it? It’s the principle……..not that it looks like you’ll understand.
So if you decide you don’t respect a particular game then its okay to cheat even though other players may respect and enjoy that game? You have that much better judgment then than everyone else then?
Seriously, you’ve got some weird kind of logic and extremely dubious moral outlook.
If your girlfriend cheats on you there is no money involved I assume. Is that okay with you Mael?
So what sort of person is a cheat then? I really don’t know any “good people” cheats.
You see, even a street robber has the decency to do it in your face but a cheat, well he’s a coward, a liar, someone you can never trust because he hasn’t got the balls to tell you to your face.
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I believe we should do strikes.
One = a month of ban.
Two = 3 months of ban.
Three = indefinite with/without parole.
If no one agrees with the former (which I highly foresee), use a timed offense. Indefiniteness is unfair. They didn't kill anyone.
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Keep in mind I never said I distributed any of those cheats or that I still use them. Everything I've written has been practice. I wrote a bot that played an aim training game so I could learn about reading from the monitor and identifying objects based on color and shape. That bot scored 3x higher than the best human score in the world but I never submitted the score because that is not the purpose of my writing such a program. I didn't "compete" in any of the games I cheated in, I merely used the games I lacked any respect for as training grounds for my novice programming skills. Calling someone a bad person or "scumbag" because they made one decision to cheat publicly instead of privately is a generous presumption.
I think you're being a little dramatic when you compare cheating in a game to robbing or cheating on your partner. It's the same as the murder metaphor people here like to use. Genuine criminal actions are not the same as cheating in a game.
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Mael, everything anyone needs to know about you and your attitude to cheating is in your first post.
A better confession I have yet to see on these forums.
Anything you add now just makes the hole deeper.
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(17 Jun 11, 10:15PM)Cemer Wrote: I believe we should do strikes.
One = a month of ban.
Two = 3 months of ban.
Three = indefinite with/without parole.
If no one agrees with the former (which I highly foresee), use a timed offense. Indefiniteness is unfair. They didn't kill anyone. Agreed, assuming it is possible, you'd have to make the entries in someone's blacklist file automatically expire at a certain date, which to me just sounds weird so im thinking it can't be done
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17 Jun 11, 11:02PM
(This post was last modified: 17 Jun 11, 11:04PM by Mael.)
If you want to have a mature conversation PM me. We're both offtopic here so we're both getting points.
Edit: Looks like I can't give myself points. Someone else do it please.
I believe Mati's issue is over inconsistency between which players were or were not banned in 1.04 and why they are now banned in 1.1, and why he is banned over having a cheat client but allegedly not using it's facilities in public.
Mati, the consensus has been pretty clear for some time now, if you connect to public servers with a cheat client you will be banned. There's simply no way to go back and check everything to confirm whether you cheated or not.
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On a totally unrelated sidenote, throwing such words at someone, no matter if they're a known cheater, should actually not be tolerated. Next time, please think what you're about to write before you write it. Thank you.
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What I see in this thread.
(17 Jun 11, 08:36PM)tipper|DES| Wrote: it’s only a game after all……………
Epic use of real elipses. Not just putting three periods "...", but using the actual thing made for it "…".
I dont even know how to make those! (I did at a time)
And of course Mati's extreme use of elipses as well! Though more of the two period kind. You make me think of RK \:D
Mael, you seem to start making this thread about you. I know I dont care what you do in other games, I care what you do in this game. So far I dont see you cheating, so I dont care :P
I also thought that 1.04 cheaters were acquitted? Maybe that was just NZ BL?
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If he did cheat, if it was in 1.0.4, he should be allowed to play 1.1. Also, what other cheaters makes threads like these replies with more then 1 line?
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A new version of AC doesn't always mean a "clean slate" for previously blacklisted offenders. In the end it is up to each individual server owner who is blacklisted and for how long.
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17 Jun 11, 11:13PM
(This post was last modified: 17 Jun 11, 11:21PM by Apollo{TyD}.)
(17 Jun 11, 10:15PM)Cemer Wrote: I believe we should do strikes.
One = a month of ban.
Two = 3 months of ban.
Three = indefinite with/without parole.
We've already tried timed and also graduaded punishments for a while. At the end it doesn't work. It causes a lot more confusion and bureaucracy for the BL maintainer: Not only that he has already to check for new or additional entries, to check logs, screenshots and demos, he has then also to check additionally the number of strikes and when the timed offences are running out . This makes it to a daily job and creates a heavy imbalance: You have all the work, and the offender has had his fun (and you have to take care that he will get his fun back soon).
No Sir - we won't spent our spare free time with only doing the dirty work for the rest. Therefore - if some really regrets and requested a deblacklisting we will discuss it sincerely. And we do cleanups at unregularly intervals. If someone is wrongly banned due a rangeban then he can request a rangeban.
(17 Jun 11, 11:11PM)Bukz Wrote: A new version of AC doesn't always mean a "clean slate" for previously blacklisted offenders. In the end it is up to each individual server owner who is blacklisted and for how long.
In the past we've also started one time with a nearly clean blacklist after a major release - no one even recognized it. Anyways, it doesn't matter. After a while a lot of names/IPs re-appeared (yeah, now it's the brother, the friend, the neighbour)...
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